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Elerion
6th December 2010, 18:29
There is something i wanted to make for years.
A project that's both glorification of Commodore legacy in high tech way, and a usefull gadget for home or office (maybe even a car).

I will not reveal what it is (until it becomes obvious), but I'm sure you will find this thread both interesting and surprising.

I'll document every step of the way to a final product, taking sugestions and improvement ideas from you along the way. :D

I'm starting with two prototype boards and a...
...piece of wood?!?

portarinos
6th December 2010, 18:35
Hmmmmm.......I wonder what it is! Let's see........mystery amiga modder :D

r0jaws
6th December 2010, 18:57
A novel way to start a thread. :)

You have my attention.......

StrontiumDog
6th December 2010, 19:32
Where's Rolf Harris???

"G'day mate ...Can you tell what it is yet?"

:D

salaxi54
7th December 2010, 01:03
@Elerion: that's not just any kinda wood, it's balsa. So, any chance of a modelling project, or a replica of some uber-rare Amigoid/Commodorian device?? :)

r0jaws
7th December 2010, 01:09
It's not another home-made walker project is it?

salaxi54
7th December 2010, 01:20
@rojaws: naahh, i doubt it.. Unless there's more balsa where that came from, and some bigger-footprint electronics to go with it. And a lot of extra generic hardware items. Which reminds me there's stuff to be done.. :whistle:

Elerion
7th December 2010, 08:47
@Elerion: that's not just any kinda wood, it's balsa. So, any chance of a modelling project, or a replica of some uber-rare Amigoid/Commodorian device?? :)
:thumbsup: Yes!

AndyLandy
7th December 2010, 10:04
@Elerion: that's not just any kinda wood, it's balsa. So, any chance of a modelling project, or a replica of some uber-rare Amigoid/Commodorian device?? :)
:thumbsup: Yes!

I feel enlightened already! (Actually I'm still completely in the dark over this) looking forward to see what comes out the end! :)

Ed.D
7th December 2010, 10:28
It's fine as it is. Just add varnish and hang it in the Tate museum!

...somebody would buy it I'm sure. :)

salaxi54
7th December 2010, 13:35
@Elerion: are the two boards for the same construction, or are you building this x 2?

Elerion
7th December 2010, 14:52
@Elerion: are the two boards for the same construction, or are you building this x 2?

It's actually two different devices that function together.

I haven't decided on the size of the device(s). I would like to make them as small, and as light as possible.

If I go with 1:3 of the original size I'll probably have to make custom boards.
If I go with 1:2.5 of the original size, these test boards will do just fine.
If I go with 1:2, I'll need bigger boards.

Decision will probably be based on size of parts I recently ordered from China. The dealer didn’t know their measurements. Or didn't understand what the hell I was talking about. But: "If they not work, we send another with no extra charger." :rofl3

Since I don't need charger at all, we agreed on a deal; even though I have no idea what will I receive. :)

salaxi54
7th December 2010, 14:56
Haaaaaahaaaaa, you could always accept the "charger" and offer it over at the recycle area! :lol:
I'm beginning to think this is some form of external A500 or A1000 expansion device....

Elerion
8th December 2010, 17:03
After mentally sorting out problems I may encounter along the way (yes it did hurt), I decided to do this the proper way.

- Strict 1:3 size ratio of the model. (Chinese parts I ordered will create a problem that I cannot solve, so I went with another solution.)
- Thermoplastic (ABS) instead of balsa will be used. (Balsa is too fragile and too soft, and I don't want this to be "look but don't touch" thing. It must be "feel free to take it and play with it" thing.)
- Custom boards instead of prototype ones. (It will be quite cramped inside the model.)


So please ignore the picture on the first post, until I take new ones. :-)

Phipscube
10th December 2010, 00:11
Hmmmm... Interesting! Looking forward to seeing what it is!

salaxi54
10th December 2010, 11:13
@Elerion: Would really love to know how you work the ABS! :)

Elerion
10th December 2010, 11:49
@Elerion: Would really love to know how you work the ABS! :)
Don't worry. There will be plenty of cutting, bending, drilling and sanding.

salaxi54
22nd December 2010, 21:29
@Elerion: Awesome stuff mate, my understanding is that you're thinking of making a miniature replica of the 1080 as well, right? Since that's my main Amiga-monitor, let me know if you want measurements! BTW, i highly doubt there's been a PAL 1080, but than again i may be wrong... :thumbsup:

Elerion
23rd December 2010, 09:51
@Elerion: Awesome stuff mate, my understanding is that you're thinking of making a miniature replica of the 1080 as well, right? Since that's my main Amiga-monitor, let me know if you want measurements! BTW, i highly doubt there's been a PAL 1080, but than again i may be wrong... :thumbsup:

You made me check my retro storage! :) You are right. I'll do the 1084, as I have a few of these. (Why did I think they were 1080's? :blink:)

salaxi54
23rd December 2010, 18:05
lol, cool stuff nevertheless! :thumbsup: can't wait to see action! :D

Elerion
17th April 2011, 14:33
Every journey starts with the first step.
I've been delaying the first step of this project for too long.

Let's start.

To make a long story short, I'm making a working replica of Commodore 64C in 1:3 ratio, using a C64DTV joystick.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/1.jpg

Here are a few components I'll be using. Instead of balsa, ABS plastic will be used.
The way I'm going to do it will completely surprise you. I did not make any schematic of the result I'm aiming for. I'll be using just a mental picture to shape it.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/4.jpg

These pieces of ABS plastic will form a bottom part of the case.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/2.jpg

I'd like to retain a possibility to connect original joysticks and Commodore drives. But since there is not enough space in 1:3 model I'll have to reduce the outline of the connectors as much as possible. On the left is the standard D sub connector, and on the right is the space saving version of it. :-)

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/3.jpg

Here is the C64 DTV board, released from it's original enclosure. I'll fit SD2IEC inside this case. SD cards will be inserted on the back. (like cartriges)

In the next post I'll put some pictures of the bottom case taking shape.
Stay tuned.

salaxi54
17th April 2011, 14:44
a-haaaaaaaaa! :lol:
Now you're talking! A few questions if i may..
a. What monitor will you be using? Any tiny 5-7" dc one?
b. What revision is your DTV?
c. What are you planning to use for a keyboard?
These are thoughts i have been processing for my DTV too... :)

Elerion
17th April 2011, 15:15
a-haaaaaaaaa! :lol:
Now you're talking! A few questions if i may..
a. What monitor will you be using? Any tiny 5-7" dc one?
b. What revision is your DTV?
c. What are you planning to use for a keyboard?
These are thoughts i have been processing for my DTV too... :)

a) To make 1:3 replica of 1084 monitor, 4.3" TFT module would be a best fit. I didn't find the one I like yet. (I'll use a TV until then.)

b) I have all 3. (NTSC V1, and PAL V2 and V3) For this project I'll use V2 board with colour fix.

c) I'll make a custom PCB to hold membrane switches used in querty mobile phones. The keys will be made out of epoxy resin. I'll make a silicone mold to create them from a prototype made of wood or clay.
How to create letters on the keys I don't know yet. Transparent decals?, laser?, something else... I'll see.

salaxi54
17th April 2011, 15:26
a. Sent you a link for what to look for. Just as an idea, but being ebay i made it pm. Sometimes you can find em real cheap.

b. Ok, mine's the same, a PAL v2

c. Ouch! lotsa work there! I'm sure you've seen Picodore, but unfortunately the Jornada keys don't match the layout of a C64...

Looking forward to see your work! :thumbsup:

Elerion
17th April 2011, 23:24
a) Good Idea. I've found a few 1/2 pal resolution ones that would also do quite nice. However I'm aiming for full resolution pal monitor. Bad thing is, all new small monitors are made in 16:9 format nowdays. Anyway I'm not in a hurry so I'm sure perfect solution will present itself.

c) I was looking for already made 1/3 size keyboard, but had no luck. The keys on mobile phones (Nokia N900 for example) have the exact measuremets. but unfortunately usualy there are only 3 rows of keys on mobiles and their layout far away from the layout of C64 keyboard.
The design of the keyboard PCB is very simple. With some luck, one layer board would be enough. I would attempt the creation of the board at home, but membrane switches require precision, insulation and gold plating, so I'll design them and let the profesionals create them for me. Minimum order is 10 I think, so in the end I might end up with more then one little Commodore 64. :-)

Merlin
17th April 2011, 23:39
Have you considered a membrane layout similar to the one they put into ZX Spectrums? At a push, you might be able to draw one out with a conductive ink pen. That way, you could mould the keys in silicone with a small silicone peg underneath to make the contact, just like those Nokia 3310 keypads they did some years back.

Elerion
18th April 2011, 10:19
@Merlin: Yes, But I dismissed the idea because I'm not sure I'd like gummy keys on a C64. :-)

No. The real reason is I would not be able to make silicone keyboard precise enough by myself. I was even looking at some companies that would make silicone key prototypes, but never asked for an offer. It seems it would cost a fortune.

Merlin
18th April 2011, 11:37
Unfortunately, the tooling costs for any plastics moulding project can be horrendous.

An idea (just thinking out loud for a second); it might prove more costly, but how about using mouse buttons underneath the keys? They are suitably small and could be positioned close enough together to create a keyboard layout. Etching a suitable circuit board to support the buttons in the right layout is possible.

The keys could be moulded from a wooden or epoxy putty 'master' and then used to make a female mould of the key button in plaster of Paris. You could then mould the keys in fibreglass resin (with a suitable coloured pigment) and attach them with a spot of superglue to the mouse buttons.

salaxi54
18th April 2011, 12:10
Merlin's mouse-switch idea is great! The hardest part would be creating the keys. A modeller would probably handle it easier, personally i would attempt to "sculpt" them out of solid wood, but it certainly is difficult to match every key...

Merlin
18th April 2011, 13:06
@ Salaxi

If he can make a suitable scale model of one of the keys, he could also maybe vacuum-form the key tops, to get a nice smooth finish from above, then fill them in with resin underneath, as it won't matter if it has bubbles in the mixture.

I used to use these techniques when I was making scale aircraft models in my early teens. Bubble canopies can be made by vacuum-forming.

Elerion
18th April 2011, 17:51
I've bought a pack of 100 mouse switches, and prototype board for this reason, but since they are 5x5mm and pins are 6mm H and 4mm V apart the space between two keys should be at least 7.5 or 8mm. (Perfect for 1:2, but too big for 1:3 model.)

Don't worry. I'm quite confident that creation of mobile phone type keyboard is feasable. It will also produce a nice "click" when pressed. Creation of keys could be a challenge, but "No risk - no fun." :)

Elerion
21st April 2011, 23:03
Update!

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/5.jpg

Lower part of the case is getting it's form. It's still rough, because I've just glued the main parts together. It's still missing a few smaller parts.
After everything is in place I'll use a hobby drill to shape the replica of the original one.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/6.jpg

While waiting epoxi to get firm, I did some modifications to the DTV board and wired all pieces together.
I've done following:

- simple colour fix (piggybacking SMD resistors was hm... erotic experience)
- added SD2IEC
- added joystick ports
- connected small dual SMD led that will show power and drive activity
- added PS2 keyboard connector (I need it until i finish the custom keyboard)
- added 3.5mm jack for video and audio (I will do s-video connector later. I'm not sure it will fit in the case.)
- Power and reset buttons
- mini USB plug as power connector (I'll be able to use any USB for power including mobile phone chargers. Depending on space left inside the case it might be possible to add a mobile phone battery that could be charged.)

Elerion
7th September 2011, 19:39
Let's continue...

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/7.jpg
Here is a picture of top cover being glued together with epoxi. I used a tape to hold pieces together.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/8.jpg
Top cover almost done. Now it really looks like disassembled C64. :lol:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/9.jpg
I started putting it together.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/10.jpg
Glimpse of joystick ports. (Lot of dust left, but I'll clean it later.)

Next:
Gluing loose parts and wires
Fairing, sanding and painting the case
Keyboard wiring
Keys molding
Keys painting

E.

Justin
7th September 2011, 19:41
c64c

jvdbossc
7th September 2011, 20:04
Quite special and original project:roll: O I like it...

Merlin
7th September 2011, 20:38
c64c

Would you like to expand on that remark, Justin?

jvdbossc
7th September 2011, 20:42
:lol:

c64c

Would you like to expand on that remark, Justin?

Elerion
12th September 2011, 22:30
@Justin: Yeah! I find C64C easier to make then the breadbox.
Well I also have another DTV V3 that also needs modifying, so maybe next year I'll make miniature breadbox.

Anyway It's progressing more slowly then i anticipated.

There are two main reasons:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/V.jpg
One, My 6 year old kid also wants to build a computer, so we must share the tools. :)

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/11.jpg
Two, the case is left with so many small imperfections that take a lot of time to correct.

But I see it this way. As much time I spend polishing it, the end result will be better.
One more day of sanding and it will be ready for the first coat of base paint.

I'm thinking about using Ravell paint for models to paint it. I have two reasons. First, It's designed for ABS plastic, and second, it will be easy to mix the perfect color match to original C64C. What do you think?

One other thing just came to my mind...

Since it is closely the same size as SNE$ controller, I could fit the directional and fire buttons from the original controller, and have C64 that you can also hold in your hand and play games with, like with the console controller! :p
...Or you think it would it be an awful hybrid and ruin the project?

mfilos
12th September 2011, 22:46
Really awesome project you got there mate!!!
In case it's get stuffy (definite scenario) maybe you should change the cabling to more thin ones.

Great and inspiring job man. Can't wait for more pr0n pics

Elerion
12th September 2011, 23:18
Really awesome project you got there mate!!!
In case it's get stuffy (definite scenario) maybe you should change the cabling to more thin ones.

Great and inspiring job man. Can't wait for more pr0n pics

Thanks! :)

Yes, It will be cramped a bit. Those big cables (8, 5 and 4 wires) are here temporarily. I will cut them and solder them to a connector that will bridge top and bottom part of the case.

Justin
12th September 2011, 23:22
c64c

Would you like to expand on that remark, Justin?


nope:D

Elerion
18th September 2011, 21:38
Most tricky part of this project is the keyboard.

I will make a custom board with 4mmx4mm switches, and use a PS/2 controller from standard PC keyboard. I found the one that is just the right size to fit in my ultra small C64.

In order to create perfect C64 keyboard, I made a map of it's keys. The F7 key is missing completely, and some keys when shifted (CTRL'd or CMD'd) do not fit to original layout. I'll solve it by changing the kernel and wire it differently.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/12.jpg
Here is the picture of the progress. The flat cables are here temporarily. I will wire it differently in the end.

AmiNeo
18th September 2011, 22:24
Where's Rolf Harris???

"G'day mate ...Can you tell what it is yet?"

:D

Queue the Churchil dog to pull a WTF face too... lol.

Phipscube
19th September 2011, 08:37
This is totally awesome! And so tiny! Great work :)

ChrisUnionNJ
19th September 2011, 08:46
This is a totally awesome project your doing can't wait to see it
completed..:thumbsup:

:coffee:

chiark
19th September 2011, 10:45
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/8.jpg
Top cover almost done. Now it really looks like disassembled C64. :lol:


You did that with a dremel and flat sheets of plastic?
WE'RE NOT WORTHY!

I've never moulded with ABS plastic before: any tips? Can you melt the stuff a little? Can you heat/bend it?

Wow!

Elerion
19th September 2011, 19:48
You did that with a dremel and flat sheets of plastic?
WE'RE NOT WORTHY!

I've never moulded with ABS plastic before: any tips? Can you melt the stuff a little? Can you heat/bend it?

Wow!

Thanks!

For the case I used only:
- Strong scissors (You can cut 1mm thick ABS plastic sheet like paper.)
- Dremel (Just to correct edges and make holes.)
- Sand paper (P360 and P1200)

Materials:
- ABS plastic sheet 1mm 1€
- 12hr Epoxy resin (to glue the pieces of ABS together) 0,75kg both components 10€
- 5min Epoxy adhesive (to glue the small pieces) dual syringe 7€
- Polyester filler (to correct imperfections) 4€
- Ravell base paint and lacquer (still not applied at this point) 10€
(I'm not selling materials :-) )

Lessons learned:
- Scalpel is likely to cut more then you intended
- You can bend ABS at 100°C (in boiling water), but it is extremely difficult to bend it just the way you want. (Unless you have a mold and a press.)
- You can also melt it, but using epoxy is much cleaner.
- You need just one drop of epoxy to glue two edges (just let the drop slide), no need to mix a kilo of it. :-)
- Don't glue connectors or switches with 12hr epoxy resin. (it is very adhesive and it goes into every hole and destroys the connector or switch.)

Keyboard will be done with these swithces (http://www.alps.com/WebObjects/catalog.woa/E/HTML/Tact/SurfaceMount/SKRW/SKRWAEE030.html), and keys made from epoxy. I'll carve the prototype of each variety of keys and create a silicone mold.

If I wasn't already married and affirmed professionally, you could say "Get a life!" :lol:

chiark
19th September 2011, 20:43
Thanks! I have a spare c64dtv for just this sort of project... But it's not quite made it near the top of the list... yet!

Elerion
19th September 2011, 20:52
Thanks! I have a spare c64dtv for just this sort of project... But it's not quite made it near the top of the list... yet!

What can I say. I've been planning to build this since first C64DTV came out. In 2005 or was it 2004?

Elerion
8th October 2011, 10:42
I'm progressing slowly but I finally have all the ideas to complete it.
Just a few days work left. :thumbsup:

While still waiting for switches to arrive, I made a 1:2 size keyboard to test the wiring.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/15.jpg

I might use it later for another model... or not.

I also started on the 1:3 size key prototypes:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/13.jpg

See the space bar it on top of original C64 one.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/14.jpg

And on top of the model.

It's made from polyester, and shaped using sand paper.
When I create all prototypes, I will use plasticine to make a mold and replicate all 65 keys.

E.

johnim
8th October 2011, 11:05
very nice work there mate

:thumbsup:

Merlin
8th October 2011, 14:17
Now THAT's what I'm talking about - this is shaping up to be one epic hacknology project!!

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Elerion
17th October 2011, 22:37
After a long wait... switches I ordered just arrived form China!!! :p

Now I'm just a few steps away from competing the project!

To show you how small these switches are, here are a few pictures:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/17.JPG

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/18.JPG

I'll Post a few pictures of this C64C-DTV being painted...

....and completed...

I really love when dreams are so close to become true! :nod:

salaxi54
18th October 2011, 11:08
Alert! Hurry! Mutant bugs approaching the keyboard! Battle stations! LOL
Wow mate, those are trully tiny switches. Very interesting modding items if i may say so! Your project is running along fine; keep it up :thumbsup:

cosmicfrog
18th October 2011, 13:55
1 word

awesomeness

:thumbsup:

chiark
18th October 2011, 13:58
EPIC WIN!

That is just so packed full of utter awesomeness. I am so impressed with the keys, in particular!

Merlin
18th October 2011, 14:03
I think I need to make a space for another 'Legendary' thread, once this is complete....:thumbsup:

Elerion
18th October 2011, 15:40
Thanks everyone! :lol: I'm so glad I chose Amibay to share this. You inspire me!

ChrisUnionNJ
18th October 2011, 15:45
That's going to be really neat like typing on a Cel phone..:lol::lol::lol:

:coffee:

Merlin
18th October 2011, 15:51
@ Elerion

Any ideas about mass-producing a kit based on this? You could probably sell a few thousand of these ..... :D

Elerion
18th October 2011, 19:45
@ Elerion

Any ideas about mass-producing a kit based on this? You could probably sell a few thousand of these ..... :D

Seriously? :lol:
I doubt it would sell, even with good marketing. DIY market is dead as it is, and remaining DTV's are too hard to find.
Anyway I don't think investment in tooling would ever return.

I would not mind if someone else thinks differently, takes the idea and monetizes it. I would just ask for a few free kits for myself... :p

Merlin
18th October 2011, 19:52
Well, I want one, for starters.......:oops:

Can you at least turn this into a 'How To' at the end, so that if we turn up a DTV, we know what to do?

That would be awesome! :)

protek
18th October 2011, 20:15
Pure awesomeness! :thumbsup:

robinsonb5
18th October 2011, 20:25
Words just aren't adequate to describe this project! Fantastic work!

TheCorfiot
18th October 2011, 20:29
This thread is simply awesome..

I'm planning on fitting a DTV inside a real 1541 ;)

Excellent work indeed :thumbsup:

TC :cool:

Elerion
18th October 2011, 20:47
Well, I want one, for starters.......:oops:

Can you at least turn this into a 'How To' at the end, so that if we turn up a DTV, we know what to do?

That would be awesome! :)

That I can, and will do.
I was a bit short on pictures of actual work being done, I know, but that was because my hands were dusty most of the time, and my wife would not let me "touch her camera with these hands". :)

mjnurney
19th October 2011, 00:09
Awesome, awesome , awesome ...

I've run out of superlatives

Elerion
6th January 2012, 20:50
Small update.

I started to work on the keyboard.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/19.jpg
Here is a picture of unpopulated PCB.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/20.jpg
Soldering 66 ultra-miniature SMD switches took a while. But here it is.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/21.jpg
Here is a picture of the keyboard under the case.

Now I just need to connect it to keyboard controller.

johnim
6th January 2012, 20:56
nice mate :thumbsup:

jvdbossc
6th January 2012, 21:45
If this completes, it is going to be a legend:thumbsup:

Buzzfuzz
6th January 2012, 22:55
Ha ha, you need tweezers to operate this keyboard :-D

Elerion
7th January 2012, 09:18
Ha ha, you need tweezers to operate this keyboard :-D

:lol: Or a toothpick.
But when I put keys on top of these, it will be similar size to B1ackberry keyboard.

Bastich
7th January 2012, 09:23
I have not seen this thread for a while. Its has progressed amazingly well. Looks awesome :thumbsup:

DonAmiga
7th January 2012, 13:00
most excellent work :) great stuff :thumbsup:

ChrisUnionNJ
7th January 2012, 19:58
I just can't wait to see the keys and it working!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

:coffee:

Elerion
25th January 2012, 23:37
These updates are not as frequent as I would like to, but here is another one.

Ultra-miniature C64DTV is now completely functional!

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/22.jpg
For now it's just glued together with a tape. I still need to finish the cosmetic work on a case and complete all the keys.

Unfortunately I made some errors on keyboard PCB, but these were fixed by just a few cuts and wires.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/23.jpg
Here are a few keys placed on top of the switches. When all are finished, I'll glue them with epoxy on a foil and fit in the case. I'm quite satisfied with nice clicks they make. :p

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/24.jpg
Letters are also being designed, although I still don't have a clear picture how the hell I'm gonna transfer them to these small keys.
I'm thinking photo-spray (for PCB's), laser print transfer, or just make transparent stickers.

My wife just passed by and commented on the dust on the red surface. :help:

johnim
25th January 2012, 23:49
looking awsome mate great work

rkauer
26th January 2012, 01:42
How about (very) old school transfer method? Decal is what I'm saying!

You need to find a local company, provide the letters (and symbols) and ask for one printed sheet.

Just apply varnish over the keys to fix the decals and avoid wearing.

BritishGeek
26th January 2012, 02:41
This project is so awesome. I am amazed at how you have done all this and cannot wait to see the final product when you have cosmetically got it 100%.

You, my friend, are an inspiration to all of us :bowdown:

netagra
26th January 2012, 20:36
This is fantastic, i have no more words!!!

Merlin
26th January 2012, 21:01
This thread is made of pure win! :bowdown::bowdown:

This is a worthy candidate for the Legends of the Photo Booth area...

Oge
26th January 2012, 22:46
Wow! :thumbsup:


Cheers,
Oge

cip060
28th January 2012, 15:01
Congratulations on your work and 'spectacular!

Elerion
28th January 2012, 16:42
Thanks all! :)

Took rkauer's advice and looked what local businesses have to offer.
Found a few that do CO2 laser cutting and laser engraving.

Engraving looks something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cetF-zavFUs

There is a special colour coated plastic just for this purpose, but it can be done on any plastic, and engraved letters can be filled with paint after the process.

Seems I found my solution for both cutting the keys and engraving the letters. :thumbsup:

E

Elerion
4th February 2012, 22:50
For laser cutting and engraving I needed to make a vectorized c64 keyboard:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/25.jpg

The people that play with lasers don't have the material I want on stock, so I'll have to wait a few days.

In the meantime I have two ideas:

1.) This computer needs a monitor, so I ordered a small LCD screen with PAL AV driver, parts for 1W Amplifier, and a pair of small speakers.

2.) Make another C64DTV hack. This time in 3D printed case. :-)
I already disassembled another joystick, and started working on a CAD 3D model. :p

Here is a demo on 3D printing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aghzpO_UZE

3d printout costs around 100€. Pricy, but it's so cool I gotta try! :)

Merlin
4th February 2012, 23:01
I saw 3D printers being used for prototyping at Cosworth Racing at Northampton back in 2004. They were using them to prototype pistons and induction manifolds for racing engines.

I remember being transfixed, watching it print a piston.

BritishGeek
4th February 2012, 23:04
OMG That 3-D printing is so awesome. Unreal.

I am scanning my wife in as we speak. I want a print out of here with no mouth :D

Elerion
4th February 2012, 23:42
OMG That 3-D printing is so awesome. Unreal.

I am scanning my wife in as we speak. I want a print out of here with no mouth :-D

They are charging these prints by square inch, so printed one would be more expensive then the real one.

No... wait....

It would be an excellent investment. :lol:

disclaimer:
to prove we are not a bunch of male chauvinists here I will post a few random husband jokes:

1) The only way to make a husband do something is to tell him he's too old to do it.
2) If he asks you: "Do you like playing cards?" You reply: "Yes! I love Visa, Master, Amex and Diners."
3) Don't think you can change anything on a man. Unless he's wearing diapers, or is 3D printed. :lol:

Wolfy
5th February 2012, 00:22
:o:bowdown:

r0jaws
5th February 2012, 00:45
Where have all the pictures gone?

Elerion
23rd February 2012, 22:40
Where have all the pictures gone?

Sorry r0jaws!

Here.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/26.jpg
Nice 5" monitor arrived from China. It's 800x480 screen with led illumination. Driver has two composite and one VGA input.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/27.jpg
And it's working. Picture looks quite good. It has only 480 lines, but when zoomed, scaling is almost not noticeable. What can be noticed is colour artifacts from composite signal. I'll have to mod the DTV and monitor and connect chroma and luma separately. It will greatly improve the quality.

I also ordered a small TDA2282M based amplifier for the speakers, but it has not arrived yet. Absence of sound didn't stop me from spending an hour or so playing The Last Ninja. :p

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/28.jpg
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/29.jpg
In parallel I'm working on 3D models of both C64 and 1084 monitor for 3D printing. It's progressing slowly, but I want to make it with as much detail as possible. 1084 will be a bit stretched to accept 16:9 screen, but it will be recognizable. :-)

Dazxy2001
23rd February 2012, 22:52
Words just cannot describe how truly awesome this project is :bowdown:

Merlin
23rd February 2012, 23:13
Finally moved to the 'Legendary Threads' area.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Elerion
23rd February 2012, 23:41
Finally moved to the 'Legendary Threads' area.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Left me speechless!
Thanks!

ami_junki
24th February 2012, 05:16
This is absolutely amazing :bowdown: the amount of work and time you have put in to it is incredible, I can`t wait to see the finished product. I think you have beat the Japanese when it comes to miniaturization lol!

Elerion
26th February 2012, 15:13
Here is a small update.

After 20 something days, an amplifier finally arrived.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/30.jpg
Caps are a disaster, but after a few hours of burning in, it started to produce something that resembles sound.
I'll replace these caps with audio grade ones, and complement it with a pair of small Visaton BF32 (http://www.visaton.com/en/chassis_zubehoer/miniatur/bf32_8.html) aluminum membrane speakers, that will nicely fit in a small monitor case.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/31.jpg
I decided to hack another DTV that I'll fit into a 3d printed case. I opened the one I bought IN_THIS_THREAD (http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=11720). Made usual luma fix, iec and keyboard connector. I also flashed it with slim intro by Crest.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/32.jpg
HyperD and I were not sure is it a V2 or V3 unit.
By looking at the hardware, V2's and V3's are identical. Running DTV detect is the fastest way to determine the version...

Yes! It's V3. :p

Elerion
3rd March 2012, 20:54
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/33.jpg

3D modelling of the case is finished, and passed the 3D printing tests. Needed about 20 hours for that. :cool:

It is more or less the same as the first prototype, only this one will look much nicer. :)

Keyboard design is progressing more slowly though.
3D printing allows interlocking of parts, so imagination is the only limitation. But in a limited space (2,1 mm), thin plastic mechanism will probably fall apart on first run-stop/restore hit.

I'm currently working on a design of the 3D printed keyboard that can be reenforced with a steel grid. Will keep you updated on the progress.

johnim
3rd March 2012, 21:01
nice update mate

Elerion
5th March 2012, 23:51
I've abandoned the idea of steel reenforced keyboard.
Model will be printed out of nylon, which is very flexible, so I made a design that uses this property.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/34.jpg
Here is a 3D layout of the bottom part of the case, showing how DTV and SD2IEC boards will fit inside.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/35.jpg
Here is an image of the closed case with keyboard.

I've engraved the letters in the keys, so they can be filled with black paint on the printed design. I'm just hoping that the resolution of the print will be good enough. We'll see.. :p

I will make a few last minute changes and tweaks in the design, and order the print. It will be rather pricy, but who cares. :lol:

---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:38 ----------

I just got another insane idea.

To make a small 1:3 3D model of Commodore 65 for DTV hacking and/or Raspberry pi! This would be way cool. :lol:

Well... Let's finish this one and the 1084 monitor first.

Elerion
8th March 2012, 00:49
C64DTV case is finally finished, and I ordered the printout from Shapeways (http://www.shapeways.com). They will ship it in 10 days, so with some luck, I'll receive it before the end of the month.

I'm really excited about this technology, and can't wait to see the result.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/36.jpg
Here is a rendering of a final version, as it will appear from the printer. Keyboard is placed like this because the printer produces more accurate details on the sides of the model.
Material used is Polyamide nylon. Which I think is the best choice among current printing technology materials.

The only problem with it is that if exposed to UV light it will (guess what) turn yellow over time. :Doh:

While waiting, I will be modelling miniature 1084 monitor.

AmiNeo
8th March 2012, 01:10
The only problem with it is that if exposed to UV light it will (guess what) turn yellow over time. :Doh:



That shouldn't be a problem, Just makes it more authentic to me :D :thumbsup:

Elerion
8th March 2012, 08:41
That shouldn't be a problem, Just makes it more authentic to me :D :thumbsup:

Right! :lol:
Technology for printing is "selective laser sintering". Model is made from very fine nylon dust, and is bound together with lasers. Dust is probably quite flamable, maybe even explosive, so I'm thinking maybe the same retardant as in old Commodores is used to reduce these properties.

So in 20 years I will try retr0bright on it. :p

salaxi54
8th March 2012, 10:38
Great stuff mate, does Shapeways support the whole procedure, meaning receiving your model file, print it and ship it to you?

Elerion
8th March 2012, 12:21
Great stuff mate, does Shapeways support the whole procedure, meaning receiving your model file, print it and ship it to you?

Yes. It's simple and painless procedure.

- You register at their site
- Put in your billing and shipping addresses
- Upload the model
- If model is printable, in 2-3 minutes it appears in your models page
- Select the model material and technology for printing
- Order the print
- Select shipping address
- Pay with Paypal

You can keep your models private (as I do), but they also offer a possibility to present and sell your model at their site, you as a designer control commission you receive for each ordered print of your design (commissions are paid monthly to your paypal account).

protek
9th March 2012, 23:44
Looks great! Can't wait to see the final product. :thumbsup:

What 3D modeling program are you using?

Elerion
10th March 2012, 09:31
What 3D modeling program are you using?

I'm using Blender for modelling. For checking the printing requirements and format conversions Accutrans 3D is a great help.

protek
13th March 2012, 08:02
How didyou get the model in right scale and dimensions?

Elerion
13th March 2012, 10:12
How didyou get the model in right scale and dimensions?

I had an original C64C in front of me, and took mesurements with a ruller and a caliper, then created the model using these dimensions. Well... these dimensions devided by 3. :)
In blender, 1 unit represents 1mm (This must be specified during export to STL).

AndyLandy
13th March 2012, 22:34
The only problem with it is that if exposed to UV light it will (guess what) turn yellow over time. :Doh:

That's fine, we have retr0bright now! :lol:

Elerion
14th March 2012, 22:51
That's fine, we have retr0bright now! :lol:

Yeah! I can hardly wait spring time. So I could go outside, make barbecue, open a few cans of beer, and expose next batch of Amigas to sunlight and my favorite retr0bright mixture, and just chill for hours while my neighbors watch closely, but never dare to ask what the hell am I doing. :lol:

Anyway. Shapeways sent me an update on my order. It is now in production. Just a few days and it will be here. The wait does not help my nicotine addiction. :shhh:

In the meantime I continued modeling the small 1084 monitor. It didn't seem so at first, but the design of the monitor is much more complex then the c64.

Here is the picture of the progress:
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/37.jpg

I uploaded the unfinished model to Shapeways to check the price. Unfortunately it will cost over 100€ to produce. Their pricing is based on a volume of plastic needed to produce it, so I'll try to make the model as cost reduced as I can, but I doubt the price will drop much.
Anyway... don't worry. I have invested so much time into this so I'll produce it even if it costs a thousand. :thumbsup:

rkauer
15th March 2012, 04:14
How about making only the glass frame on the 3D printer and model yourself the back part using the plastic sheets you used before?

Elerion
15th March 2012, 09:49
How about making only the glass frame on the 3D printer and model yourself the back part using the plastic sheets you used before?

That could save a few, but not much more then I normally spend Saturday night on beer with the guys. (Worst case I'll skip one session... Yeah like this will happen. :drinkin: :p)

Anyway the back part interlocks with the front part very precisely, and it will have nice grille that I would not be able to create using plastic sheets. This grille will greatly improve the general impression, but will also have a function. Monitor components produce some heat, and ventilation is actually needed.

protek
17th March 2012, 04:40
How much did the C64 case printing cost?

I mean, I've got a DTV too... :whistle:

Jazzmarazz
17th March 2012, 05:17
What are the dimensions of the console, not the monitor? I have access to a 3D printer and need one of these for my own DTV. I am honestly speechless.

Elerion
17th March 2012, 18:23
protek, jazzmarazz I'm so glad you like it so much, this kind of support really motivates me to continue working on it.

Purpose of this is thread is not sale, so please don't go in that direction. :) If you also want to make a DTV like this, drop me a PM and I'll consider releasing the models when they are finished. :thumbsup:

Production of 64 was a little over 60€ without VAT.
Size is 1/3 of the original one (approx 140x80x20 mm).

For the update, done some work on the monitor. It still needs a lot of work, but outer shape is more or less finished. Here is a picture of the back side:
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/38.jpg

salaxi54
17th March 2012, 18:54
Looking remarkably good! Can't wait to see the real thing in action, mate :thumbsup:

BritishGeek
17th March 2012, 19:08
I keep returning here to see the progress. I cannot wait to see the finished projects.

That monitor is looking so cool as well. I thought the C64C was cool by itself then you go and ad the monitor.....

Cannot wait and keep them updates/pics coming

Iain :thumbsup:

Elerion
17th March 2012, 23:27
I thought the C64C was cool by itself then you go and ad the monitor.....


How about C65? I'm planning to do this next! :p

Anyway, I made a quick rendering for an avatar, but here is a larger picture:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/40.jpg

Not bad considering I was not paying attention how surfaces look like. It seems keys need more detail on the corners, but I'm sure that on the 3D printout of keys that are 4mm in size it will be unnoticeable. :-)

Wolfy
17th March 2012, 23:55
ooooooooh a C65, but with an sd slot for the floppy...

Jazzmarazz
18th March 2012, 04:54
ooooooooh a C65, but with an sd slot for the floppy...

And stereo SID chips. :drool:

Elerion
19th March 2012, 00:57
Something like this?

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/41.jpg

:lol:

BritishGeek
19th March 2012, 04:42
:bowdown::thumbsup2::bowdown::thumbsup2::bowdown::thumbsup2::bowdown::thumbsup2::bowdown:
:arms:wooha::arms:wooha::arms:drinkin::arms:wooha::arms:wooha::arms

oh and did i mention :

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

Wolfy
19th March 2012, 05:55
I would so like one...
would affix it to projector (hanging upside down from ceiling) as ultimate c64 demo machine...

protek
26th March 2012, 08:50
So, has it arrived? ;)

Elerion
27th March 2012, 19:48
So, has it arrived? ;)

Yes! :p

Let's flood with some photos.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/42.jpg
This is a photo of a package, as it was when arrived.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/43.jpg
Open box reveals a nice "Thank you" card.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/44.jpg
Here it is. Content of the package is one plastic bag with a model inside. It was well packed in a lot of bubble wrapping.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/45.jpg
And here it is. Long awaited miniature C64.

This is a first time I'm ordering a 3D print, so I don't know what to compare the results with.

Plastic is rough to the touch. Under the fingers it feels like holding a piece of powder that materialized. (:lol:This is actually exactly what happened in 3D printer. :lol:) Anyway my point is, it feels like it will fall apart if I squeeze it.

Impression can be misleading, because this thing is tough. It is as strong as ABS, and a bit more flexible. At Shapeways they call this material White strong and flexible for a good reason. Oh yeah. The white attribute is also correct. The white is actually so bright that it almost hurts your eyes.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/46.jpg
The keyboard. Hm...

Engraved letters are not visible. Well.., maybe if you look at them at a certain angle and a certain light you can see the shapes of letters, but they are far from being readable. :dry:

The keys, especially in the middle of a keyboard are merged together with what I believe is not plastic, but the plastic dust residue. I will try to clean it up later.

I'll have to redesign the keyboard for model V2.


http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/47.JPG
Grille on top looks great. Here is a closeup that doesn't show much, but don't worry, I'll make a plenty of pics during assembly.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/48.JPG
Here is a picture with holes for joystick connectors.
The notches seem a little bit too tiny. I will redesign them also.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/49.JPG
Place for power connector, power switch, reset and disk-change buttons. Seem fine.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/50.jpg
A different view of the same thing.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/51.jpg
Here is where I made another error. The hole for SD card is too thin for most micro SD adapter cards. I was using the thinner MMC card when taking measurements, so this also must be corrected.

Well that's it for today. I hope you enjoyed this update.

During the weekend I will be fixing errors I made on the case and if I have enough time, assembling it to working condition.

E.

johnim
27th March 2012, 19:56
thats er awesome mate great work put it together now

Merlin
27th March 2012, 20:03
DO WANT!!

salaxi54
27th March 2012, 21:30
That is ALL WIN! Awesome result mate :thumbsup:
Does the whole model come covered in residue? It sure looks pretty grainy everywhere. If that isn't residue on the case, are you able to smoothen the surface with fine sandpaper for example?
Real nice!

Elerion
27th March 2012, 22:45
Does the whole model come covered in residue? It sure looks pretty grainy everywhere. If that isn't residue on the case, are you able to smoothen the surface with fine sandpaper for example?
Real nice!

Well, yes and no.
Yes because this residue is everywhere. I will have to wash it with some high pressure jet to get it all out.
No because the surface itself is rough. I tried 400 grain sandpaper and it improves the feel lot, but for perfect result it will need a few rounds of sanding and thin paint. I will not overdo it, but I have to do something. This rough surface is also a magnet for dirt.

I've seen examples where people dipped the model in epoxy resin. There were some fantastic results, and some examples of ruined models...
We'll see.

On brighter note, here is a short preview of what's down the road:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/52.jpg
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/53.jpg
This is how disk change, reset and power switch will look like.


http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/54.jpg
A decal. :ninja:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/55.jpg
You probably have an idea about how small this is, but to illustrate better, here is a picture next to standard Competition pro joystick and a 1€ coin.

johnim
27th March 2012, 23:03
wow thats tiny

i like the microswitch holders

robinsonb5
28th March 2012, 00:02
That's just incredible! Superb work there!

protek
28th March 2012, 09:25
Oooh! Me like! :drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::respect:

Merlin
28th March 2012, 10:22
http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/win_sector.jpg?w=720

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Elerion
31st March 2012, 18:35
Thank you all!

Here is a small update.

I'm sanding the case to get a smoother surface. (Hope you don't mind the dust on the picture.) :laugh:
On it, I will apply Ravell base paint. I will also mix a few of their lacquers to get the closest match to the original C64 and apply it with an airbrush.

I have also placed most of the components inside to see how they fit.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/56.jpg
I had to enlarge the slot for SD cards, but other then that it's perfect!
I need to buy new joystick connectors, because the ones I have are showing signs of corrosion that would decrease the general impression of the finished model.


http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/57.jpg
I've also made some progress on the monitor. Here is the view of interior of it. There is still a lot of work to be done, but HI-FI speaker holders are in place. The "large" pipe looking holes on the back are actually only <10mm holes for 4 RCA connectors. :)

clueless
31st March 2012, 18:52
Just staggering. :bowdown:

Akira
4th April 2012, 19:14
This is incredible!!!!!!

dougal
4th April 2012, 19:27
I can't believe my eyes! This is totally amazing. Respect.

Spaffy
4th April 2012, 21:07
I have just sat and read this whole project and its left me utterly gobsmacked. You sir are uber 1337 !!!

Retrofan
12th April 2012, 01:00
Ok, I've started reading this thread today... I wish I had done it already finished... I can't wait to see this marvellous thing working :thumbsup:

Elerion
14th April 2012, 18:35
After sanding the model, the first coat of base paint is applied.

Here are a few pictures.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/58.jpg
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/59.jpg

It will take a few long cycles of painting-drying-sanding.

In the meantime I'll assemble the parts to working condition.

Elerion
14th April 2012, 22:14
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/60.jpg
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/61.jpg
Case is almost ready for the third layer of paint.
On the pictures, surface still look a little bit rough, but actually it is already quite smooth.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/62.jpg
I would like to keep the model as tidy as possible, so most of the wiring will be done with lacquered copper wire (usually used for transformers).
Instead of using usual test points, I made connections to joystick ports from these vias below the board. This will greatly reduce number of loose wires in the model.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/63.jpg
I will use only one led RGB diode for the model. I will connect it as follows:
Red - Power
Green - Drive operation
Blue - Drive error

Actually as red led will be on all the time, when disk is in opperation it will glow yellow, and on error it will blink between red and purple or yellow and white. :huh:..... Yeah. :)

ElectroBlaster
22nd April 2012, 02:10
Serious overload of L33T-ness going on here! excellent stuff :D

Im so impressed with how you have approached this that I am going to check out Blender! My father-in-law raves about that program but I never bothered to look.

I want to create a mini 1541.

Elerion
29th April 2012, 15:55
Thank you all for your comments.

I wish I have more time to finish this quickly. My family and work demand a lot of time, but every once in awhile I can spend a few hours on this project.

The top part of the case needs one or two more layers of paint, but lower part of the case is painted and polished.

It's time to assemble it to a working condition!

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/71.jpg
As you have seen on one of my previous posts, I was not using usual test points to connect the joystick ports. Instead I used a set of vias. Model will have a lot less wires exposed, and will look much tidier.
From right to left these vias are:
1 - Joy1 UP
2 - Joy1 DOWN
3 - Joy1 LEFT
4 - Joy1 FIRE
5 - Joy2 UP
6 - Joy2 DOWN
7 - Joy2 LEFT
8 - Joy2 RIGHT
9 - Joy1 RIGHT
10 - Joy2 FIRE

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/64.jpg
Here is a picture of the joystick ports being wired.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/65.jpg
Here it is. Connected and fitted in a case.

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/66.jpg
Before continuing I connected the DTV to a small monitor to make sure everything is working. Yes. It works.

Even better! It works even if the power switch is off. :mad:
It took me a while to figure this one out.
Why was it working? I forgot that in original C64DTV joystick, power switch was done on the GND (battery -) signal, and together with LED diode form a passive power regulator. Weird, but I wanted to keep this wiring in this model. It worked just fine when DTV was a standalone device, but if you connect another device to it with same power supply and common GND line, the switch is useless. :picard

Anyway It's fixed and working. Here are a few more pictures:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/67.jpg
Left side (Showing red disk switch and reset buttons, power switch, micro USB power connector, and SD card slot.)

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/68.jpg
AV and audio connectors. (They are wired in a way that audio by default goes to pink AV connector but is switched off if headphones are connected to green connector.)

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/69.jpg Joystick port1 and port2

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/70.jpg
Here is a picture of the project so far. Top cover still needs a few paint-polish cycles, and keys are not yet done, but it gives a pretty good idea how it will look.

Speaking of keys... Keyboard is too rigid. Pressing one key usualy presses one or two surrounding keys as well. I might try to fix it, but perhaps it would be better that I redesign it and 3D print it together with the monitor case.

That's it for now. I'll be working on 3D monitor model for a next few days to sooth the soldering iron burns on my fingertips, and allow the paint that got deep beneath my fingernails to wash off. :lol:

johnim
29th April 2012, 16:03
nice updates mate

Elerion
20th May 2012, 15:06
Keyboard is driving me nuts, so I'm redesigning it and will have it printed again. I'll use Polyjet printing technology this time. It's a bit more expensive, but it looks closer to real plastic and allows much more detail.

From the outside the new keyboard will look like this:
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/72.jpg

And from the inside - like this:
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/73.jpg

I need to engrave letters again and check if everything is OK for printing.

salaxi54
20th May 2012, 17:48
Nice renderings there mate, why's the keyboard giving you trouble?

Elerion
20th May 2012, 19:55
Nice renderings there mate, why's the keyboard giving you trouble?

In a nutshell, I failed in designing it. :picard

I guess I was too excited with this 3D printing thing and rushing too much to get the first printout.

Although it was made from flexible material, keyboard turned out to be too rigid. Keys were too close to each other, which caused a bridge of plastic to be formed between them during printing. I tried to separate the keys and make them flexible again, but it didn't work.

Also, there was not enough detail on the printout with SLS technology so embossed letters on the keys were not visible. I will use a different technology that will produce the model with more detail, and better finish. (No need for sanding, painting and other forms of torture. :lol:)

In new design each key will be separate, and will be printed at least 0,6 mm away from the next key. After printing I'll assemble the keys to a separately printed base that will hold them in place.

salaxi54
20th May 2012, 20:02
In a nutshell, I failed in designing it. :picard

I can understand the feeling, but you will only be making it better! :thumbsup:
After all, it was one of your first attempts in 3d-printing, so surprises are to be expected i guess. Cheer up, you're doing a wonderful job there. :)

Elerion
20th May 2012, 20:21
In a nutshell, I failed in designing it. :picard

I can understand the feeling, but you will only be making it better! :thumbsup:
After all, it was one of your first attempts in 3d-printing, so surprises are to be expected i guess. Cheer up, you're doing a wonderful job there. :)

The try and error method is not one of my favorites, but you are absolutely right. It will make the final result better. :thumbsup:

e5frog
22nd May 2012, 23:18
I'm amazed, beautiful work - wish I could get one as well!

Raccoon
23rd May 2012, 20:18
Amazing!
This is really wonderful work.

I thought that I was the last DTV modder for a while since it was some time ago it was sold and all forum threads seems to be at least 5 years old.
Comparing your modd with mine is like comparing a Rolls Royce with a tractor... :)
Looking forward to see the progress, finished keyboard and 1084 monitor.

It was e5frog that found this thread and showed it to me.
So we meet again mr Frog!

Well here´s my modd anyway.
http://c202.org/DTV/Monterad.jpg

salaxi54
23rd May 2012, 22:19
This thread just keeps on getting ever more interesting!
Welcome aboard Raccoon, and thanks for the pic.

Elerion
24th May 2012, 09:17
Amazing!
This is really wonderful work.

I thought that I was the last DTV modder for a while since it was some time ago it was sold and all forum threads seems to be at least 5 years old.
Comparing your modd with mine is like comparing a Rolls Royce with a tractor... :)
Looking forward to see the progress, finished keyboard and 1084 monitor.

It was e5frog that found this thread and showed it to me.
So we meet again mr Frog!

Well here´s my modd anyway.


Thanks and welcome!

I actually planned to do this when I got my first DTV1 in 2004-2005. As you can see it took 8 years before I got close to completing it. In the meantime 3D printing technology appeard which I realy like.

I'm progressing slowly because I don't have much spare time on my hands, but I definately plan to complete it before fall this year.

I like your mod. It actually looks like SX64. It just needs a small LCD monitor on the left side. :-)

Raccoon
24th May 2012, 22:59
As it was possible I had to do 4 joystickports - for Bombmania :)
The DTV runs for approx. 10-12 hours on fully charged battery.

Elerion
1st June 2012, 22:53
I sent an RFP for printout of the V2 of the case in Laminated Object Manufacturing (LOM) technology.

Different from what I originally planned, but much cheaper then SLS, Objet or stereolitography printout.

V2 of the case have several improvements:
- Keyboard was completely redesigned. Each key is now printed separately, to ensure 100% functionality.
- I increased the size of the engraved letters on the keyboard. Previous ones were too tiny for 3D printing. With some luck these should be big enough to be visible.
- DTV board was a tight fit, so I added a 0,25 mm for DTV board place.
- I found that SD2IEC reset button would come quite handy (actually to quickly return to root directory of SD card) so I added another button to right side of the case.
- Increased the slot for SD cards, so fat SD adapters can fit.
- Returned to original idea of having separate led's for drive operation, so this model has 2 leds on the right side of the keyboard.

We'll see what happens.

Here is a pair of crude renderings of the model:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/74.jpg
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/75.jpg

ravard
11th June 2012, 02:48
Amazing! I have been catching up on this thread the last couple of nights. Wow. I wish I had some 3D modelling skills!

protek
1st July 2012, 12:07
Any update? Have you received the new version of the case?

Elerion
1st July 2012, 20:45
Any update? Have you received the new version of the case?

I know, I'm progressing slowly these days. :(
I've had a few quite busy weeks at work, trips that had taken away last 2 weekends...

Anyway to cut the excuses, here is as a short update:

Laminated Object Manufacturing required a few changes to the design.
Using this technology, object is made from thin layers of plastic that needs to be removed from the object after "printing", so it must be designed with a clear path for residue layers removal. (Very similar to the design rules for injection molding process.)

I did these changes, but I need a few hours more to recheck the model again to make sure everything will be OK. So This week I'll have it printed.

ETA: early next week.

mike_cc
20th July 2012, 10:08
Not sure how it's taken me this long to find your epic thread, but this is truly inspirational.

Well done on such an awesome and enlightening project! I'm very much looking forward to the next update.
:thumbsup:

klx300r
10th August 2012, 15:04
Not sure how it's taken me this long to find your epic thread, but this is truly inspirational.

Well done on such an awesome and enlightening project! I'm very much looking forward to the next update.
:thumbsup:

+ 1- this is the best night time reading I've had in along while:thumbsup:

protek
24th August 2012, 06:54
How's this progressing?

Elerion
24th August 2012, 21:36
How's this progressing?
Neglected it a bit. :(

Will get back to work and post an update soon. :thumbsup:

pstrinic
11th September 2012, 15:19
I did this 1571 mod (http://petarstrinic.com/dtv/) when DTV (v1) first came out...

I just bought a PAL DTV, not sure if it's v2 or v3, to mod. Haven't quite decided how yet.

On a separate note, does anyone have a 3d printable model of a full C64c case? I'd love 2-3 in different materials/colors.

chaos
15th September 2012, 03:12
Elerion: that's some amazing work your doing, I'm really impressed. Hats off!

Enjoy!

Pixie
25th October 2012, 06:55
Holy crap! This is the mother of all modification threads! :thumbsup:

More pictures please :)

tekopaa
27th November 2012, 14:02
How about Walker case replica + Minimig inside

Elerion
2nd December 2012, 11:18
Hi and thank you all.
Just wanted to let you know that I did not abandon this project, just neglected it because of other (less fun) activities. I will continue as soon as my callendar clears up a bit.

tekopaa: I'm planning to make miniatures classic commodores first. When I finish, perhaps Walker case will also be considered classic.

pstrinic: Your project was one of the first I've seen, and an inspiration to make my own mods.

pstrinic
3rd December 2012, 00:36
Thanks for the complement. I wish I had 1/2 the talent to create a custom enclosure like that.

Plumbstone
10th January 2013, 13:05
Blown away by this. Can't wait to see how it turns out....

luy32
25th May 2014, 02:18
any news ?

Beegle
19th August 2014, 21:16
Wow, this thread is perfect. Good job.

e5frog
11th September 2014, 19:11
Time to finish it...

What if you glue the buttons you already made to a piece of rubber that is fastened inside the top shell? You could have letters and symbols printed as stickers and glue these on, maybe some clear coat to keep them nice over time.

spanner
11th September 2014, 20:00
I sent an RFP for printout of the V2 of the case in Laminated Object Manufacturing (LOM) technology.

Different from what I originally planned, but much cheaper then SLS, Objet or stereolitography printout.

V2 of the case have several improvements:
- Keyboard was completely redesigned. Each key is now printed separately, to ensure 100% functionality.
- I increased the size of the engraved letters on the keyboard. Previous ones were too tiny for 3D printing. With some luck these should be big enough to be visible.
- DTV board was a tight fit, so I added a 0,25 mm for DTV board place.
- I found that SD2IEC reset button would come quite handy (actually to quickly return to root directory of SD card) so I added another button to right side of the case.
- Increased the slot for SD cards, so fat SD adapters can fit.
- Returned to original idea of having separate led's for drive operation, so this model has 2 leds on the right side of the keyboard.

We'll see what happens.

Here is a pair of crude renderings of the model:

http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/74.jpg
http://web.vip.hr/nevens.vip/DTV/75.jpg
Very nice work,I wish I had a 3D Printer now...:(

I am moding mine at the moment but need some help..

Here are some questions..

1.) Can you show the bottom of the main board so I can see how you soldered the IEC connections please.

2.) What power supply do you use I have a 5v 2.5A and the led comes on but don't power it,I have a 6v 800mA and it works fine,now if i power my keyboard with the 6v power supply will it blow it..?

Here is mine still working on it..

http://youtu.be/rFdugtgUAPs

http://youtu.be/vzE1adcGLlc

More vids soon

e5frog
11th September 2014, 20:32
Hook up IEC:
http://www.richardlagendijk.nl/cip/article/item/hacking_the_dtv_2/en

7572975730

Also: http://www.pitsch.de/stuff/c64dtv/C64DTV_solderpoints.jpg

Why not put two diodes in series with the 6V in case you're worried about the keyboard, you'll get at least 1V voltage drop over these.

More help:
http://www.pitsch.de/stuff/c64dtv/index_en.htm


There hasn't been much action here for a while... good luck with yours.