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merlinkv
18th January 2012, 08:20
Hi to all :)

To do not hijack more the wonderful Mario's thread about KS 3.9, I decided to open a new one.

Well, I have one A500 Rev6A with AlfaPower 500 v6.10 8MB RAM, also I have one 1/2 MB RAM expansion.

I haven't probs with KS 3.1 as the A500 works great with my "updated" 3.1 EPROMs (Marios, you're right, the Toshiba are the best ones ;) ).

But really I want my A500 to work only under KS 1.3 and play old games/demos without issues (for KS 3.1, 3.9 I have other Amigas).

OK, I started to burn some updated KS 1.3 but with different results: don't boot, boot but don't work, boot but external FDD's don't work.....

I readed carefully the Mario's Thread and others but no way. I used the estandard modules included inside the original KS 1.3 and I updated the ROM with some modules specially designed for the A500.

- If I read my original KS 1.3 IC then burn the EPROM = Everything is OK
- If I extract modules from the original .rom image then burn the EPROM = Everything OK
- If I load the original 1.3 modules, but change some with new ones, like new trackdisk.device, BBlank or others... I get unpredictable results...

What updates I want for KS 1.3? New ones like BBlank, scsi.device, trackdisk.device,..... but, of course, maintaining the compatibility.

Any help will be much appreciated :bowdown: :bowdown:

mfilos
18th January 2012, 09:19
AFAIK my friend, not many modules are compatible with Kickstart 1.3 modules.
That's why there was a weird patch for Kickstart 1.3's scsi.device instead of just replacing a scsi.device in Remus.

Tbh I don't know which modules are compatible with Remus and Kickstart 1.3 so I'd strongly suggest you to make custom ROMS and try them first in WinUAE and a clone environment of your A500 setup :)

merlinkv
18th January 2012, 09:32
Hi my friend :)

Yes, I have tested all under WinUAE before any burn. Some of them works fine under WinUAE (configured, as possible, like my real A500) but burning it to real EPROMs don't work as expected....

About the patched scsi.device, I have it, but no way....

Also if I use the original modules (taken a total of 262.144 bytes) and add at "the last burning possition" modules like BBlank (using a few more bytes)... :(

I will try more times :D

Thanks a lot :thumbsup:


AFAIK my friend, not many modules are compatible with Kickstart 1.3 modules.
That's why there was a weird patch for Kickstart 1.3's scsi.device instead of just replacing a scsi.device in Remus.

Tbh I don't know which modules are compatible with Remus and Kickstart 1.3 so I'd strongly suggest you to make custom ROMS and try them first in WinUAE and a clone environment of your A500 setup :)

Toni.Wilen
18th January 2012, 10:06
Yes, I have tested all under WinUAE before any burn. Some of them works fine under WinUAE (configured, as possible, like my real A500) but burning it to real EPROMs don't work as expected....


Are you sure about correct configuration?

By default WinUAE attempts to be "more compatible" than real Amiga. (Compatible with ROM images that wouldn't normally work on real Amiga model, for example A4000 ROM would hang in A1200 mode without this hack. Of course it would be reported as emulation problem if it would be fixed now..)

Make sure chipset panel says "A500", not "Generic". Better yet, select A500 most common quickstart setting with compatibility slider fully left.

Are you using 256k or 512k or larger EPROM? Did you mirror the rom image to fill the whole EPROM space? (Does it work on WinUAE if you use full mirrored image instead of only first 256k?)

Do you have ECS Denise? BBlank feature is only in ECS Denise (and AGA).

merlinkv
18th January 2012, 10:46
Hi Toni :)

Of course, I don't use generic config :lol:


Do you have ECS Denise? BBlank feature is only in ECS Denise (and AGA).

Maybe here is the problem with BBlank. I have Indivion ECS installed but not sure about my Denise revision. Looking here http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-achips.shtmlw I cannot see one ECS Denise for A500. The IndiECS emulates the ECS Denise?

I have the propietary IC's of an old A500+ mobo, these can be installed in one A500 Rev6A mobo? If possible, I will loose compatibility?

Thanks

BLTCON0
18th January 2012, 14:32
I have Indivion ECS installed but not sure about my Denise revision.

Software like Sysinfo can tell you the revision :thumbsup:


Looking here http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-achips.shtml (http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-achips.shtmlw) I cannot see one ECS Denise for A500.

ECS Denise 8373 (DIP package) can be used as a drop-in replacement for the standard OCS Denise in an Amiga 500. It was officially used after all on the A500+ :)



The IndiECS emulates the ECS Denise?

Yes



I have the propietary IC's of an old A500+ mobo, these can be installed in one A500 Rev6A mobo? If possible, I will loose compatibility?

Thanks

The ECS Denise from the A500+ can be installed as a drop-in replacement in an rev 6A board as already said, the Agnus cannot (but if you get a minimegachip with an NTSC Agnus, you can use the PAL Agnus from your A500+ to convert the minimegachip to PAL version).

merlinkv
18th January 2012, 15:24
@BLTCON0

Ok I have now the original OCS Denise and the Indivision ECS.

If I understood well, installing the ECS Denise (in the IndiECS socket) from the A500+ mobo I will get a full ECS Denise system, right?

So, With full ECS Denise & the MiniMegi PAL I bought to my friend Stan here http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=24137 I will get one Full ECS A500 6A with 2MB Chip?

Thanks in advance to all for your support & help :)

Added: Full ECS Denise installed & system working :)

BLTCON0
18th January 2012, 17:26
@BLTCON0

Ok I have now the original OCS Denise and the Indivision ECS.

If I understood well, installing the ECS Denise (in the IndiECS socket) from the A500+ mobo I will get a full ECS Denise system, right?


For output coming from the Indy, you don't even need the ECS Denise. The Indy understands ECS screenmodes and will output them (scandoubled and/or flickerfixed), the only requirement is an ECS Agnus for the timing. But for ECS screenmodes coming from the RGB port, you'll need the ECS Denise. So it's good to have it there too :thumbsup:



So, With full ECS Denise & the MiniMegi PAL I bought to my friend Stan here http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=24137 I will get one Full ECS A500 6A with 2MB Chip?


Exactly :) That's my A500 too. Rev6A, DKB minimegachip (NTSC converted to PAL with Agnus I stole from an A600 board) and Indy ECS. It cost more than just getting a single A500+ board but hey it was the A500 I grew up with :cool:



Thanks in advance to all for your support & help :)

Added: Full ECS Denise installed & system working :)

Of course it works (and rocks) :thumbsup:

merlinkv
18th January 2012, 19:42
Hi again,

@BLTCON0


Exactly :smile: That's my A500 too. Rev6A, DKB minimegachip (NTSC converted to PAL with Agnus I stole from an A600 board) and Indy ECS. It cost more than just getting a single A500+ board but hey it was the A500 I grew up with :cool:

Maybe cost more, but I love this A500 because it's a replica (more powerfull) of my first Amiga I have bought on 1989...... :D

Thanks again :thumbsup:

BLTCON0
19th January 2012, 10:19
Yep, I got mine in 1989 too, still have the warranty cards in the box ;) Sadly only the floppy drive (!) survives from that Amiga.
The only thing that annoys me is that the KCS Power PC board won't cooperate as a 0.5 MB RAM expansion with the minimegachip, instead of 2 MB chip RAM I get the standard 0.5 MB. I'm still trying to think of a solution for this :?:.

merlinkv
19th January 2012, 10:52
Really I don't know... but one more question... my Rev6A mobo have 1/2 MB onboard, but also have the places to install 1/2MB more. So it's possible to solder additional chips and get 1MB on mobo?


Yep, I got mine in 1989 too, still have the warranty cards in the box ;) Sadly only the floppy drive (!) survives from that Amiga.
The only thing that annoys me is that the KCS Power PC board won't cooperate as a 0.5 MB RAM expansion with the minimegachip, instead of 2 MB chip RAM I get the standard 0.5 MB. I'm still trying to think of a solution for this :?:.

BLTCON0
19th January 2012, 11:13
Really I don't know... but one more question... my Rev6A mobo have 1/2 MB onboard, but also have the places to install 1/2MB more. So it's possible to solder additional chips and get 1MB on mobo?


Yes, of course :) I have done that on my second A500. It's actually "un-cased" now, I'll try to take a photo after work.

Edit: Yes I know it's dusty :p

merlinkv
19th January 2012, 14:33
Really I don't know... but one more question... my Rev6A mobo have 1/2 MB onboard, but also have the places to install 1/2MB more. So it's possible to solder additional chips and get 1MB on mobo?


Yes, of course :) I have done that on my second A500. It's actually "un-cased" now, I'll try to take a photo after work.

Edit: Yes I know it's dusty :p

Great job mate :thumbsup:

It's possible to know where you have bought the sockets?

Thanks

mfilos
19th January 2012, 14:39
I can send you some mate. I got some from my local electronics store :)
I have some extra I can send you for free. I'm not sure if the keyboard aligns perfectly though cause this extra height is tight with keyboard's metal backplate.

Does it only requires the RAM chips and the capacitor btw? I done the same task on my 8.1 revision A500+ mobo (that only had 512KB of RAM - Yeah I know one of the El'Cheapo A500+ cases) but I never managed to get it working despite the correct jumpers and the extra decoupler IC that i installed :(

merlinkv
19th January 2012, 15:05
I can send you some mate. I got some from my local electronics store :)
I have some extra I can send you for free. I'm not sure if the keyboard aligns perfectly though cause this extra height is tight with keyboard's metal backplate.

Does it only requires the RAM chips and the capacitor btw? I done the same task on my 8.1 revision A500+ mobo (that only had 512KB of RAM - Yeah I know one of the El'Cheapo A500+ cases) but I never managed to get it working despite the correct jumpers and the extra decoupler IC that i installed :(


Hi Marios,

If you can deliver the sockets .. will be great my friend :bowdown:

Just tell me by PM any involved cost, please :)

:thanks:

BLTCON0
19th January 2012, 15:13
@merlinkv
Like mfilos, I bought them from a local electronics store for peanuts. I don't think you'd have any trouble finding them locally, too.
mfilos is right on the height issue, see below

@mfilos
You are right, fitting the keyboard is a small issue. But as this is a 'testing' A500 I wasn't bothered a lot about that (you can tell from all the dust that it's sat there opened up for a good while now :whistle:). Quite naturally, if I ever determine I need the chips permamently there and the casing closed, I'll desolder the sockets and solder the chips directly :thumbsup:

And yes, that's what it only requires. Maybe not even the decoupling capacitors but it didn't cost anything to add them. But this is a rev6a :blink:

As for the 8.1 boards, from what I understand (never owned one) from photos, fixing JP3 and U32 ought to be enough but I don't know much more. I've even read stuff like some of these 'crippled-to-A500-level' 8.1 boards would not work with standard 0.5 MB trapdoor expansions meant for the 'real' A500, others were modified to accept standard A500 expansions, who knows. I think you'd have to have a real A500+ board side-by-side to the crippled one for an effective comparison.

merlinkv
19th January 2012, 15:22
@mfilos & @BLTCON0

Well, the local stores...... :( I'm living/working like in other galaxy at an affordable temperature of -14 C now :D

Jockes appart, for me it's very difficult to get some simple components. In anyway maybe the best is to solder directly to the mainboard (ICs & capacitors)?.

About A500 vs A500+ really I want to expand my A500 but without lossing too much compatibility with the "original" one. So it's recommendable to solder more ram at the mobo? maybe not?

mfilos
19th January 2012, 15:35
@BLTCON0
6A doesn't need decoupling so yeah, just the RAM chips and capacitors would suffice.
My El'Cheapo A500 8.1 mobo gave me a hard time so I decided not to mess with it more. Pitty but 6A seemed a lot better, although I really hate the 1MB chip RAM limitation without putting an MiniMegi 8735 replacement board which tends to be expensive not to mention problematic at times.
Having an 6A board with 512KB+RTC expansion plus an 8732B (from A3000) Agnus plus the new ECS Denise would be the A500 dream board imho :)
If you can find me an 8732B Agnus let me know lol :D

@merlinkv
Why solder ram when you can easily put an 512KB expansion that also has an RTC my friend?
It's easy enough but you need to be sure of those RAMs since once you solder them, it's painful to desolder them with manual pump if you don't have a desoldering pump :)

BLTCON0
19th January 2012, 15:44
@merlinkv
From a purely functional point of view, there is no advantage in installing the chips on the board.
Sure the signal paths are a bit shorter than via the trapdoor connector, but at the speed the A500 runs this isn't even remotely a benefit.
And sure, there's some reliability merit to having the chips soldered onboard, but having the whole fleet (68000, Denise/Paula/Agnus/Gary, CIAs) socketed makes that rather moot.
You should also consider that if you install the chips onboard:
1. If you want a real time clock, it'll still have to be added via the trapdoor connector, so you might as well have the extra RAM there too :-P
2. Even if you don't care about the clock, I'm not exactly sure what kind of expansion you could still plug at the trapdoor connector (as using it for extra RAM isn't possible, at least until rkauer et al come up with some devious hack). So it's not like the (now empty) trapdoor can be utilised.
In short, IMHO it's not really worth it unless you just want to mess around a bit :thumbsup:
But as compatibility is concerned, having the chips on board is 100% the same as having a standard 0.5 MB expansion.
(BTW - for the minimegachip you DO need a 0.5 MB expansion, as it only provides 1 MB of RAM).

@mfilos
6A is said to have 'secret' 2 MB chip RAM onboard option using the 8372B Agnus! Whoever finds a cheap 8372B first must try it.
Here's the stuff. (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38607&page=4)
But if you just want 512 KB + RTC (=1 MB chip RAM), the 8372A is just fine.
I've had no problems with my DKB minimegachip, but the manual states in case of crashes to clip the wire onto the 68000 instead of Gary, don't know if that fixes instabilities once and for all though as I haven't had any (it's clipped on Gary here).

merlinkv
19th January 2012, 15:46
Hi Marios

Yes, you're right my friend is not needed :) I think is the expansion fever I have sometimes :lol:

Now my A500 is working with 9MB RAM and waiting the MiniMegi... it's really enough for this system :D

@BLTCON0

Thanks a lot for the info mate :thumbsup: Very good for a noob "modder" like me :)

BLTCON0
19th January 2012, 16:30
Anytime, actually discussing this just gave me the idea to try the KCS board on this 'testbed' A500 with onboard 1 MB chip RAM having the minimegachip installed, too. Will most likely fail to even boot :p but worth a shot.

merlinkv
19th January 2012, 16:59
I want for my systems a couple of external FDD drives. But is too difficult to get 100% working units..... Maybe I will open a Wanted Thread now.... :lol:

BLTCON0
19th January 2012, 17:48
I love FDDs, I have 6 external drives.
3 x Cumana CAX-354
1 x Datalux SV-702
2 x nonames

My advice: absolutely go for the nonames! They typically look like [photo 1] and contain a simple adapter PCB with cables, like [photo 2].

My Cumanas are nice, but they use a custom no-screws housing. Two problems:
1. If the drive fails and you want to replace it, they're difficult to open as the casing is symmetrically clipped to itself. Tedious and boring job!
2. Once you open it, you see that the PCB plugs directly into the floppy drive (so there's no room for movement, hence the absence of screws), so you can only replace it with a drive that has the data & power connectors at exactly the same spots! Good luck finding one.
(no photos because I hate opening them again).

The Datalux SV-702 [photo 3] looks also nice and at first glance it resembles the noname ones. But when you open it you see that they decided to use a nonstandard Epson SMD-400 drive, so the adapter PCB is more complex [photo 4, 5] and won't work with a standard Amiga-modded drive :thumbsdown: I had to improvise a bit on the cable to make it accept a standard Amiga drive (the cable that works is NOT the plugged one :p)

So you're better off with the generic stuff, or at least with a 'brand' but which uses a generic adapter PCB and mounting chassis.