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View Full Version : Which 060 works best for A3000/T



drwho
1st February 2012, 15:54
Hello Folks,

I purchased an Amiga 3000T here on Amibay from quarkx a while back and have been trying to figure out since then which 060 card to buy that will actually work with the machine.

The system itself works flawlessly (thanks quarkx!!), however, I have tried 2 A3640 cards, one that was purchased with the machine and another borrowed from a local fellow Amiga 3000 user.

Both cards have been confirmed to function in my friends A3000, but, neither will work in my A3000T.

The system has a buster-11 and I installed a 74F08N in U103. I pretty much have the jumper settings for every CPU type committed to memory, yet, these did not work.

From what I have read in my research (which has actually been a lot of fun), the 3640 either works in the 3000, or it wont. This is ok, I am not married to this card. By the way, both 3640's tried were rev 3.2 and the INT-2 fix HAS NOT been done to the 3000T.

My actual question is: is there a sure bet accelerator for the A3000/T to look for that has an 060, on-board memory and on-board SCSI which will work?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

Zetr0
1st February 2012, 17:23
Unless you want to go PPC then I would humbly suggest the BEST (not nessasarliy compatible with your A3KT) is the CyberStorm Mk3

With 128MB of 64bit Interleaved RAM (very fast!), Onboard FAST SCSI 3 (*upto 40MB a sec) and an onboard port for the Cybervsion PPC (not sure if this works on the CSMk3?)

Failing that then a Cyberstorm Mk2 is a fantastic purchase - again upto 128MB of FAST RAM, and an optional CyberSCSI Mk2 Module (*upto 10MB a sec)

Both fantastic 060 adapters, perhaps the creme' of the crop as the top end goes to be honest.

Virge
1st February 2012, 17:26
Cyberstorm MkII works only with 64mb on Amiga 3000 :(

Regards
Pedro

Zetr0
1st February 2012, 17:29
umm Virge... why is that?

does that need a modification to the motherboard?

is that for the A3000D motherboard or the A3000T motherboard or both?

AndyLandy
1st February 2012, 17:49
The Cyberstorm Mk I won't physically fit in an A3000D. The CSII will, but the SCSI kit won't. If you want the full works, as my esteemed colleague Zetr0 points out, the CSIII is the best '060 card in existence, and the CSPPC is of course the natural continuation of the CSIII.

If you want Accelerator SCSI, you'll need to do the INT_2 mod. (Google for it for more info, it's a fairly simple soldering job)

Amiga Resource has a list of cards that are allegedly supported in an A3000:
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a3000proc

Probably worth a look. :thumbsup:

AndyLandy
1st February 2012, 17:51
Cyberstorm MkII works only with 64mb on Amiga 3000 :(

Regards
Pedro

You're probably thinking of the Apollo 4060 (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/apollo4060). That will only fit in an A3000 with only half the RAM slots filled.

SpeedGeek
1st February 2012, 18:27
Interesting, that's the first time I heard of a late rev. A3640 failing to work with an A3000T. This is very unusual since the A3000T was the only A3000 series machine C= offered with the A3640. In fact it was supplied with Ramsey rev. 7 and SuperDMAC rev. 4 which were supposed to improve compatibility with the A3640. Have you checked the +5 Volt supply on the motherboard or A3640? Are those standard 25 MHz A3640's or over-clocked A3640's? The clock jumpers should be set to EXT for a standard A3640 and I'm sure you tried that combination already. You might try reseating any socketed chips but I would also take a close look at the 200 pin CPU slot connector. The A3640 does not need the INT2 mod so we know that's not the problem here.

Obviously, these are some suggestions which might help until you can get an ultra fast Cyberstorm board or similar. I think the 64MB memory limit on the A3000 versions was due to physical space limitations which may not apply to the A3000T, but the WarpEngine and Apollo boards seem to have same limitation as well.

drwho
1st February 2012, 19:55
@Zetr0:
Thanks for that info my friend, I will keep my eyes open for an MKIII :-)

@SpeedGeek:
I know the borrowed 3640 was not tampered with in anyway. I don't know much about the one that quarkx included with the machine other than the fact that based on information gleaned from here and various other places on the internet, it appears to be a rev 3.2 board. I had discussed this with quarkx, and he indicated that he had never gotten around to testing the board before I purchased it from him.

It's important for me to stress here again, this 3000T works flawlessly with the on-board 030. Also, as I stated, it has a buster 11 and the DMAC and ramsey chips have been confirmed to be at the correct revisions. It also has 3.1 ROMS.

My concern is that I will purchase an MK3, or something of that nature, which is quite expensive, and it will not work on this machine.

Fortunately, I love playing with this machine, so, if there is something that I can do, or try, please let me know! :D I'm planning on pulling the motherboard this weekend to implement the INT2 fix, so, that would be a great time to look things over in relation to this problem.

AndyLandy
1st February 2012, 20:02
The A3640 is a tricky beast to get to work with an A3000. Although, I'm astonished that your A3000T won't accept either, particularly if you've a DMAC-04 and RAMSEY-07 in there. The INT_2 mod shouldn't matter, that's only needed for SCSI. My A3000D doesn't have INT_2 and works fine with an A3640

I guess the concern would be that there's a fault on the CPU FAST slot. If this is the case, I can see why you'd be worried about shelling out for a top-end accelerator, only to find out your A3000T won't work with anything in the slot.

On the other hand, it should work with a CPU card, so in theory, it should be possible to repair it. And if there ever was a place full of enough awesome to help you do it, Amibay would be that place!

:thumbsup:

mech
1st February 2012, 20:05
Hello Folks,

I purchased an Amiga 3000T here on Amibay from quarkx a while back and have been trying to figure out since then which 060 card to buy that will actually work with the machine.

The system itself works flawlessly (thanks quarkx!!), however, I have tried 2 A3640 cards, one that was purchased with the machine and another borrowed from a local fellow Amiga 3000 user.

Both cards have been confirmed to function in my friends A3000, but, neither will work in my A3000T.

The system has a buster-11 and I installed a 74F08N in U103. I pretty much have the jumper settings for every CPU type committed to memory, yet, these did not work.

From what I have read in my research (which has actually been a lot of fun), the 3640 either works in the 3000, or it wont. This is ok, I am not married to this card. By the way, both 3640's tried were rev 3.2 and the INT-2 fix HAS NOT been done to the 3000T.

My actual question is: is there a sure bet accelerator for the A3000/T to look for that has an 060, on-board memory and on-board SCSI which will work?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Mike


Did you set the jumpers right? Is there SC zips in the first ram bank(chip numbers ending in 402)? if so you will need some fast page ram in the first bank with the A3640.

Jumpers must be set properly in the 3000T to use the A3640 are you absolutely positive they were correct?

you added the 74f chip so you should be good there.

i have owned about 8 A3000T's in my lifetime and all of them with varying chips and motherboard revisions worked with the A3640 rev3.1 or newer

Int2 is not needed with the A3640.

The cyberstorm MK2,3,cyberstorm PPC and GVP4060DT( i have not tried the gvp) should all work in the 3000T

Int2 will be needed for boards with SCSI.

What roms are you using,you don't mention this? 3.1 are recommended


Mech

drwho
1st February 2012, 20:13
@Mech:

ROMS are 3.1, the motherboard is populated with the full 16MB, sure about the type though, I will check that.

I set the jumpers several times and I am confident that they were correct, however, I will certainly try again and post here exactly what I did and what configuration they were tried in.

I knew that the INT_2 mod was not needed for the 3640, I was going to do it for future support purposes. Although, in the past few minutes I've decided that I am not going to bother until I solve this 3640 issue. I don't want to muddy the waters by making changes to the board while I am trying to fix this issue.

AndyLandy
1st February 2012, 20:25
Jumpers J100 and J104 need to be set to EXT if you're using an A3640, but need to be set to INT if you're using the on-board 68030.

Also, it's definitely worth checking your FastRAM. Run Sysinfo and see what speed results you get. My A3000 pr0n thread (http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=7572) has screenshots of Sysinfo running with static column and page mode RAM. Page mode is about 10% slower than static column on an '030, but the '040 actively needs the slower page mode RAM, something to do with burst mode not being available on the '040. I'm sure someone smarter than me can fill you in on the technical details.

:thumbsup:

drwho
1st February 2012, 20:56
@Andy:

So, if I have static column, I assume that getting page mode memory is probably not an easy thing to do, am I correct?

AndyLandy
1st February 2012, 21:59
@Andy:

So, if I have static column, I assume that getting page mode memory is probably not an easy thing to do, am I correct?

Don't forget, you only need one 512k ZIP in the first socket to slow the rest down.

drwho
1st February 2012, 22:01
@Andy:

So, if I have static column, I assume that getting page mode memory is probably not an easy thing to do, am I correct?

Don't forget, you only need one 512k ZIP in the first socket to slow the rest down.

Ah ... Well, that's not so bad really.

SpeedGeek
2nd February 2012, 00:40
@drwho

I seriously doubt it's a page vs. static column memory issue. First of all with Ramsey rev. 07 and 3.1 ROM's your A3000T is fully upgraded to properly handle either type of memory. Secondly, You have already said everything works fine with the on board 030. Finally, Burst mode is completely disabled on the A3640 itself. There could be a possible problem with mixing both types of memory if page mode was enabled but again you say all is well with the on board 030.

You have not yet advised us on the +5V supply on the motherboard or A3640. Do you have a DMM? The reason I ask is because the A3640 is much less tolerant of low voltage then the on board 030 and at the same it will be placing a significantly higher current load (resulting in voltage drop) on this supply. If this checks out OK then the 200 pin CPU slot connector as well as the PCB traces and solder joints in that area all become prime suspects here.

mech
2nd February 2012, 16:29
He could pull all the ram and just run off chip to possibly take that variable out of the equation, that should be the easiest test to eliminate the static vs pagemode ram question..

I guess it could be a voltage problem,but i'm betting on wrong jumpers.

Mech


@drwho

I seriously doubt it's a page vs. static column memory issue. First of all with Ramsey rev. 07 and 3.1 ROM's your A3000T is fully upgraded to properly handle either type of memory. Secondly, You have already said everything works fine with the on board 030. Finally, Burst mode is completely disabled on the A3640 itself. There could be a possible problem with mixing both types of memory if page mode was enabled but again you say all is well with the on board 030.

You have not yet advised us on the +5V supply on the motherboard or A3640. Do you have a DMM? The reason I ask is because the A3640 is much less tolerant of low voltage then the on board 030 and at the same it will be placing a significantly higher current load (resulting in voltage drop) on this supply. If this checks out OK then the 200 pin CPU slot connector as well as the PCB traces and solder joints in that area all become prime suspects here.

drwho
2nd February 2012, 16:37
Unfortunately, I was unable to get to this last night. I am going to get on it this evening though.

I have a DMM, so, a voltage check at the CPU fast slot should be easy enough. As promised, I will post here with the jumper configs that I try when I attempt this again.

Thanks for all of the great suggestions so far! :thumbsup:

Sveta
2nd February 2012, 17:21
Hi,


Cyberstorm MkII works only with 64mb on Amiga 3000 :(

Regards
Pedro

CS MKII works fine with 128MB in A3000T. ;)

Regards, Sveta

Buzzfuzz
2nd February 2012, 18:45
The board clock must also be changed, certainly on the 3000T.

060
100 3-4
102 1-2
104 1-2
103 2-3

040
100 3-4
102 2-3
104 2-3
103 1-2

030
100 1-2
102 2-3
104 1-2
103 2-3


Jumpers J100 and J104 need to be set to EXT if you're using an A3640, but need to be set to INT if you're using the on-board 68030.


As per best card, for me it's the Cyberstorm MKIII, but beware when this is overclocked and cooling block and fan are present, it won't fit in either 3000D or T.
And the T is only when the HDD/CD-DVD ROM rack is mounted.

drwho
2nd February 2012, 18:50
I've see this list of jumper settings many times and used the 040 settings you listed for my 3640 setup. I'm pretty sure that I got them right.

One question is, for the A3000T, when you install the missing 74F08N at U103, is there a jumper associated with that as well somewhere on the board which I may have missed?

SpeedGeek
2nd February 2012, 19:19
@drwho

Regarding jumpers check to see if you have any of the following jumpers on your A3000T motherboard:

J105 System Clock Disable
In the 2-3 position, this jumper allows the DIS_CLKS line from the Local Bus Slot to operate normally. In the 1-2 position, it forces DIS_CLKS high (asserted), disabling on-boardsystem clock generation.

J107 68030 Clock Disable
In the 2-3 position, this jumper allows the DIS_CLK30 line from the Local Bus Slot to operate normally. In the 1-2 position, it forces DIS_CLK30 high (asserted), disabling on-board 68030 clock generation.

The simple fixes are always the best ones!

drwho
2nd February 2012, 20:12
The simple fixes are always the best ones!

I completely agree! :D

I will check these tonight when I get home from work, thanks!

AndyLandy
2nd February 2012, 23:11
For what it's worth, on my A3000D, it was only J100 and J104 that needed changed to make the A3640 work. That's not to say that there aren't others that will help you, but as far as I'm aware, those are the only ones that are pertinent.

If you have a 16MHz A3000, there are a couple of others that would also need tweaked, but as far as I'm aware, all the A3000Ts were 25MHz.

mech
3rd February 2012, 00:09
For what it's worth, on my A3000D, it was only J100 and J104 that needed changed to make the A3640 work. That's not to say that there aren't others that will help you, but as far as I'm aware, those are the only ones that are pertinent.

If you have a 16MHz A3000, there are a couple of others that would also need tweaked, but as far as I'm aware, all the A3000Ts were 25MHz.

The jumpers on the 3000T - T being tower are different from the desktop 3000.

Mech

drwho
3rd February 2012, 02:32
Ok, I have some bad news, although, I think I may have found my problem.

I do have a Buster 11 (390539-11), but, I was mistaken about the other key chips in the recipe to get this working.

My Ramsey is a 390541-04 and my DMAC is a 390537-02

I must have made a mistake when the machine first got here, fishing around and moving wires out of the way, I was so excited, I probably saw what I wanted to see when I read the chips. :Doh:

I know the buster is an 11 because I installed it. This could pose a real problem, since I don't think that these chips can be gotten anymore.

Ugh ... I'm such a blockhead! :(

mech
3rd February 2012, 03:04
Just remembered someone ask for these jumpers a few days ago. this is straight from my service manual.

-Mech-

AndyLandy
3rd February 2012, 08:52
Ok, I have some bad news, although, I think I may have found my problem.

I do have a Buster 11 (390539-11), but, I was mistaken about the other key chips in the recipe to get this working.

My Ramsey is a 390541-04 and my DMAC is a 390537-02

I must have made a mistake when the machine first got here, fishing around and moving wires out of the way, I was so excited, I probably saw what I wanted to see when I read the chips. :Doh:

I know the buster is an 11 because I installed it. This could pose a real problem, since I don't think that these chips can be gotten anymore.

Ugh ... I'm such a blockhead! :(

You could see if you can track down an alternate Super DMAC-02 from somewhere. They're a little more common than the rare -04 revision and some are within tolerance for running an A3640.

Have you checked the RAM speed yet? If you're running DMAC-02 and have static column RAM, that might be where the problem lies.

Good luck!

Kawazu
3rd February 2012, 09:31
Have you tried removing 74F08N at U103?
My 3000T + csppc refuse to boot if i have that socket populated witha a chip.

You dont rly need it anyway, there where just some cards that do not work without it.

drwho
3rd February 2012, 12:34
Have you tried removing 74F08N at U103?
My 3000T + csppc refuse to boot if i have that socket populated witha a chip.

You dont rly need it anyway, there where just some cards that do not work without it.

Yes, I've tried it with and without the 74F08N, in fact, I purchased the 08N's after doing research to try and fix this issue.

---------- Post added at 07:32 ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 ----------


You could see if you can track down an alternate Super DMAC-02 from somewhere. They're a little more common than the rare -04 revision and some are within tolerance for running an A3640.

Have you checked the RAM speed yet? If you're running DMAC-02 and have static column RAM, that might be where the problem lies.

Good luck!

Yes, I'm going to have to scavange around for these chips.

In a way, it's cool though. I mean, after all, this is all part of the fun with these machines. If I had everything working exactly the way that I want it, then what would I do with all this stuff? :)

---------- Post added at 07:34 ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 ----------

As a follow up question ...

Assuming that I wanted to take the risk of purchasing a different CPU accel ...

Is the revision of the Ramsey and DMAC an issue with just the A3640, or, can I just scrap the idea of using a 3640 and get something else which will work with these chip revisions?

CrashMidnick
3rd February 2012, 12:40
Did not get mine working too... I bought an apollo 4060 and now the system is working very fast ;)

Moreover 3640 are just... no I will not say any insulting word ;)

Here are some bench for 060 cards (A4060 = Apollo 4060) :

http://obligement.free.fr/gfx/comparatif_apollo.jpg

AndyLandy
3rd February 2012, 12:41
Yes, I'm going to have to scavange around for these chips.

In a way, it's cool though. I mean, after all, this is all part of the fun with these machines. If I had everything working exactly the way that I want it, then what would I do with all this stuff? :)

---------- Post added at 07:34 ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 ----------

As a follow up question ...

Assuming that I wanted to take the risk of purchasing a different CPU accel ...

Is the revision of the Ramsey and DMAC an issue with just the A3640, or, can I just scrap the idea of using a 3640 and get something else which will work with these chip revisions?

As I understand it, it's only really the A3640 that's picky about A3000 chips, so you could in theory avoid all that aggro by using something else. On the other hand, if the issue is somewhere else in the system, it might not solve your problems.

But yeah, as you say, this is where all the fun is! I'd get bored if I was given a perfectly-working A3000T, where's the fun in that!

:thumbsup:

drwho
3rd February 2012, 12:47
Did not get mine working too... I bought an apollo 4060 and now the system is working very fast ;)

Moreover 3640 are just... no I will not say any insulting word ;)

I've heard this a lot about the 3640. I honestly know very little about the card, but, it seems to be a bit flakey, to say the least. :nuts:

---------- Post added at 07:47 ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 ----------




As I understand it, it's only really the A3640 that's picky about A3000 chips, so you could in theory avoid all that aggro by using something else. On the other hand, if the issue is somewhere else in the system, it might not solve your problems.

But yeah, as you say, this is where all the fun is! I'd get bored if I was given a perfectly-working A3000T, where's the fun in that!

:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

True. Again, this all hinges on the question of whether I am willing to risk spending a boatload of cash on another card.


Of course I am! :D

CrashMidnick
3rd February 2012, 12:48
Yes and the RAM access are very slow...

AndyLandy
3rd February 2012, 12:50
Did not get mine working too... I bought an apollo 4060 and now the system is working very fast ;)

Moreover 3640 are just... no I will not say any insulting word ;)

I've heard this a lot about the 3640. I honestly know very little about the card, but, it seems to be a bit flakey, to say the least. :nuts:

It's a plain old '040 with no frills like SCSI or FastRAM. As such, it's considerably cheaper than a Cyberstorm or a WarpEngine etc. You get what you pay for.

I've got an A3640 in my A3000. It quadrupled the performance score for not a lot of money. Given I've already got an A4000 with a Cyberstorm, it was all the performance I really needed for my A3000. As ever with these things, you probably need to make a judgement about where you want to go with the machine...

:thumbsup:

CrashMidnick
3rd February 2012, 12:59
You're right Andy but seriously I think I prefer a fast 030 rather than the 3640... My A3000D has one and to be honest it is the Amiga that I use the less...

AndyLandy
3rd February 2012, 13:06
You're right Andy but seriously I think I prefer a fast 030 rather than the 3640... My A3000D has one and to be honest it is the Amiga that I use the less...

There's a lot to be said for that. The '030 is a lot more compatible if you're WHDload gaming.

For me, it was more about proof-of-concept. I wanted to prove that it was possible to put an A3640 into an A3000, with a SIMM adapter and have it all work. I've done that and I'm a happy man as a result! :lol:

:thumbsup:

SpeedGeek
3rd February 2012, 23:44
@drwho

Too bad about the Ramsey 04 and SuperDMAC 02 you just found in your A3000T. I seriously doubt these are the original chips that came with this machine when new.

I do know that SuperDMAC is more problematic than Ramsey and your more likely to find another SuperDMAC 02 than an 04 any time soon. Also, it will cost you plenty if you do find one.

But you should know that my A3640 worked fine in my A3000 when I first purchased the card 5 years ago and it was just a plain old 25 MHz A3640 back then.

There is still one more A3000T jumper you should try from mech's post:
J106 Clock 90 short

Also, you should still check +5 Volt supply before you go hunting for SuperDMAC.

Good luck!

AndyLandy
4th February 2012, 01:03
@drwho

Too bad about the Ramsey 04 and SuperDMAC 02 you just found in your A3000T. I seriously doubt these are the original chips that came with this machine when new.

They could be. I thought it was only A3000T/040s that came by default with DMAC-04/RAMSEY-07. The basic /030 models still shipped with DMAC-02/RAMSEY-04.

SpeedGeek
4th February 2012, 15:31
They could be. I thought it was only A3000T/040s that came by default with DMAC-04/RAMSEY-07. The basic /030 models still shipped with DMAC-02/RAMSEY-04.

It's possible that some very early A3000T's were shipped were those versions. But they were all supposed to be upgradeable to 040s and since C= did not supply A3000T upgrade kits with the A3640 your local C= dealer might have had some problems completing the upgrade.

drwho
4th February 2012, 16:39
@drwho

Too bad about the Ramsey 04 and SuperDMAC 02 you just found in your A3000T. I seriously doubt these are the original chips that came with this machine when new.

I do know that SuperDMAC is more problematic than Ramsey and your more likely to find another SuperDMAC 02 than an 04 any time soon. Also, it will cost you plenty if you do find one.

But you should know that my A3640 worked fine in my A3000 when I first purchased the card 5 years ago and it was just a plain old 25 MHz A3640 back then.

There is still one more A3000T jumper you should try from mech's post:
J106 Clock 90 short

Also, you should still check +5 Volt supply before you go hunting for SuperDMAC.

Good luck!

I checked +5v and it looks good at the fast CPU slot.

I do agree with you though, this might have been one of those situations where a previous owner before myself and quarkx had salvaged the Ramsey and DMAC from this machine to put into another.

I guess I'll start hunting around for the chips. You never know what you will find out there. I am also on a quest for a CSMK3, which might just solve the problem completely. It would be a big investment to make though if there is something else wrong.

I'll give J106 a shot as well on my next test for this.

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------

I don't know if this matters, but, the board is a rev 6.1. I didn't notice the date on it before I put the cover back on. I'll take a look at that.

I am still pretty thankful though. This 3000T works flawlessly other than this 3640 problem. The machine is solid as a rock. :thumbsup:

SpeedGeek
5th February 2012, 18:07
@drwho

AFAIK this 6.1 is the only rev. of A3000T motherboard. So that won't tell us much. I would check for a manufacturing date. If it's a 91' then there's a good chance Ramsey 04 and SuperDMAC 02 are the originals as Andy suggests. If it's a 92' or later than it seems more likely the chips were swapped by a former owner. I think 92' was also the release date of the A3640 as well.

It could be that the A3000T has a somewhat different clocking setup with those extra jumpers and/or longer traces from the CPU slot to the clock circuit causing slight timing differences which make it less tolerant than an A3000 motherboard as well.

drwho
5th February 2012, 18:36
@SpeedGeek:
I will check this out today, I need to open the machine up again to add another drive, while I am in there I'll look for a manufacturer's date.

@Thread:
Thanks to everyone for all of your help and suggestions. The outcome wasn't what I had hoped for, but, thanks to the collective knowledge here, I at least have a better understanding of the problem.

You guys are the best!! :thumbsup:

SpeedGeek
17th June 2012, 16:37
Well, I have mixed feelings about posting this link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amiga-3000-3000-T-ULTRA-RARE-DMAC-04-/160825870356?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item2571f80814

Only on GreedBay!

P.S. Recently, I made a CLK90 timing change on my A3000/A3640 which indicates Ramsey has a more serious timing problem than SuperDMAC.

AndyLandy
17th June 2012, 16:46
And I still reckon a DMAC-04 isn't going to help you. I really doubt it's the problem. If you're a purist and want your A3000T to be 'original', getting DMAC-04 and RAMSEY-07 might be worthwhile, but I don't think it'll solve your actual problem. (Or, if it does, I'm sure there are other cheaper ways)