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mjnurney
18th March 2012, 10:43
i have been sent an Apollo to test and fault find if possible , it arrived from a fellow amibay member and was DOA when it arrived.

the first visual inspection didn't look too good i must admit but hey ho..

first job was to clean the card properly and and examine the soldering. various untidy soldering was abound on this thing but on the whole it looked like it made contact. The more worrying things where the burning and scorching on and around the voltage reg.

as you can see a molex plug was added to the voltage reg and one or two components had or where in the process of being burned alive.

so i tided the card up and cleaned the burn marks as best i could and then resoldered any rough / burnt / damaged components.

i didn't touch the added extras!

first switch on .. dead / it even stopped the hard drive spinning.

so..

changed the voltage reg - dead same.
unsolder / change crystal - dead same

change to 68040 spec for testing & check the boot rom

BINGO - it lives with the following changed.

Regulator off.(supplies 3.3v) jumpered to 5v
crystal changed. (now socketed)
cpu changed to 68040 (5v)

so I'm running some stress tests at the min and then i'll change it back to 060 spec when my new motherboard arrives. my 2B hates 060 Apollos.

updates soon.
mike.

johnim
18th March 2012, 10:49
nice work mike has it been in a toaster

mjnurney
18th March 2012, 10:51
yeah i think it has :-)

these are 68040 pics

AmiNeo
18th March 2012, 11:49
Looks like over use of flux and an iron too hot with noobness to boot.

mjnurney
18th March 2012, 12:34
Final update.

testing is about done now.

cpu changed back to 68060 and run with my cpu (EC75mhz) with a 50mhz crystal.

66 mips
doom flies along at a fair old pace.
boots from onboard IDE to WBADV in about 20 seconds.
sysinfo crashes but thats no loss.

Overall.
a complete success. i suspect the original CPU has been fried by over voltage / amps..

mike

Quick vid uploading now

http://youtu.be/AcYtyExK9HU

http://youtu.be/mzu2vYYhUC4 boot up and systool mem / cpu test

Justin
18th March 2012, 12:36
well done buddy:thumbsup:

AmiNeo
18th March 2012, 12:49
Very well done indeedy!

Dazxy2001
18th March 2012, 13:22
Nice work, well done :thumbsup:

mjnurney
18th March 2012, 15:01
thanks guys, easy stuff . nothing wrong except dead cpu and a bit of dodgy soldering.
its just difficult to diagnose faults without other bits to try,

a black screen could be anything..

mike.

Zetr0
18th March 2012, 15:10
Congrats Mike!! :thumbsup:

I think you have found a calling my friend =)

mjnurney
18th March 2012, 15:32
not so sure Keith , I can swap parts like for like but if it fails then im stumped ..

I wish I knew what all the parts do and the values they should have but nope - haven't got a clue.

after that ...im stumped. :-)

the (smd capacitors) that have been piggy backed on but why ? greater stability or overclocking I would expect? if the one underneath is dead it would be easier to replace it surely. the simm socket has one on too that's shouldn't be there.

mike.

roy_bates
18th March 2012, 15:35
i think its a good idea to remove those capacitors that are piggy backed to the other ones mike,cant understand why its been done like that even if they have failed.


and as for the one on the simm socket,remove it mike it serves no perpose at all.


but.........it does look like someone was just messing about with it and not really knowing what they where doing.not really a good idea with these cards.

mjnurney
18th March 2012, 15:37
I think the same roy but i'll ask the owner first ...

as it is , it works very well. better than mine infact grrrrr


PS
if you were doing that . wouldn't you just remove the lower value cap and fit a larger Uf cap on?

roy_bates
18th March 2012, 15:44
I think the same roy but i'll ask the owner first ...

as it is , it works very well. better than mine infact grrrrr


PS
if you were doing that . wouldn't you just remove the lower value cap and fit a larger Uf cap on?


yes mike,i would just remove the old one if it was knackered then mount a new one in its place with equal value.

if i was you id ask the owner if its ok to go ahead and do it anyway having it in that setup might cause problems later on if the original caps have gone,but.......i have a strange feeling theres nothing wrong with them at all.seeing as the person who did it in the first place dident really know what they where doing.

Bad_Ad84
18th March 2012, 15:46
If you piggy back a cap, you are adding the 2 values together.

I.e. 2 piggybacked (parallel) 100nf caps = 200nf.

If you link caps in series, you get the value of the great cap.

Complete opposite to how resistors would work.

mjnurney
18th March 2012, 22:40
thank you for the explanation

but why do this?

roy_bates
18th March 2012, 23:00
thank you for the explanation

but why do this?



no idea mike,ive seen some badly converted cards in the past not like the one you have just been looking at.

the one that someone gave me was like this,the person had tried to remove the 040 and gave up the 040 was still partly in the through holes at an angle(yes you read that right)

the capacitor had exploded,the one next to the clken resistor,the 74f74 was shot,and the simm slot was melted,lol

plus two of the ics next to simm (data path)was knackered.

so you see this sort of thing happens all the time mike.:)

Bad_Ad84
18th March 2012, 23:06
thank you for the explanation

but why do this?

Wanted/needed to install different value cap and they didn't have it. So they added the difference between the original cap and the value they wanted and soldered it on top?

More likely, they didn't know how cap values stack and it's just wrong?

Guessing really :-/

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 12:58
http://youtu.be/mzu2vYYhUC4

The motherboard is booting the Apollo 1260 every time now for no apparent reason. The only thing i have done is use the HDD in Winuae and set it to 060 AGA to copy some files over and mess about really. i haven't changed anything - but now it boots every time on the 2B mother board ...

grrrr suckdkfrhsasttsdddgff !!!)(@@@!!!!

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 13:09
and you just got another one to replace it!.

i think it dident want the 21 gun salute mike:lol:

i bet you stood there when it was playing up pointing and sayin,if you dont work im going to get one that does and your going on the bomb fire!


either that or youve got gremlins:lol:

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 13:14
well the funny thing is the card I repaired boots 100% , mine freezes almost at wb lol grrrrr

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 13:19
well the funny thing is the card I repaired boots 100% , mine freezes almost at wb lol grrrrr



god that would really rack me off no end,have you tried reseating the mach chips as well?

on your card i mean.

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 13:48
yep mine locks up at a 68LC060 info pane that ive not seen before, the other card boots straight to WB no issues :-)

if it does it on the new mobo I guess my 040 just is suitable for 060 speeds..

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 14:04
yep mine locks up at a 68LC060 info pane that ive not seen before, the other card boots straight to WB no issues :-)

if it does it on the new mobo I guess my 040 just is suitable for 060 speeds..



have you tried your cpu in the other card?

are you running remapollo?

damn i cant remember if the LC's have an mmu or not,i'll have to check i dont have one you see.

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 14:54
yeah the cpu is a 680ec60 75mhz and runs fine in the other card but not in mine for some odd reason, i wonder if the firmware is different ..

my card has a flashed rom the other is the apollo rom

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 14:59
yeah the cpu is a 680ec60 75mhz and runs fine in the other card but not in mine for some odd reason, i wonder if the firmware is different ..

my card has a flashed rom the other is the apollo rom


have you tried swapping the rom as well,dont think thats the problem but worth a look.

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 15:07
no i'll wait for the other mobo to arrived I think :-)

thomas_red
20th March 2012, 22:07
well the funny thing is the card I repaired boots 100% , mine freezes almost at wb lol grrrrr

Never laugh at piggyback strange looking mods :cool: I wouldn't be surprised if that's the secret of the other card stability :D

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 22:20
AT LAST - THE ANSWEEERRRRRRRR!!!

Apollo 1260 ROM details:

this is from the seller of the rom i used in my Apollo.

Please note, the firmware rom is a copy from a 1260 card with a 68060RC50 cpu that has both FPU and MMU. It will not work with EC cpu:s and propably not cpu:s w/o MMU either! (The 75 Mhz EC version of the Apollo 1260 has different libs and firmware) It should however work with a 040 cpu also.

it seems the ROM is wrong for my CPU , thats why my CPU works perfectly in the other Apollo card grrrrrrrr

hours and hours wasted ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


oh the humanity


no need to jump from a tall building now

D.B
20th March 2012, 22:23
AT LAST - THE ANSWEEERRRRRRRR!!!

Apollo 1260 ROM details:

Please note, the firmware rom is a copy from a 1260 card with a 68060RC50 cpu that has both FPU and MMU. It will not work with EC cpu:s and propably not cpu:s w/o MMU either! (The 75 Mhz EC version of the Apollo 1260 has different libs and firmware) It should however work with a 040 cpu also.

it seems the ROM is wrong for my CPU , thats why my CPU works perfectly in the other Apollo card grrrrrrrr

hours and hours wasted ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

But a result. Better to eventually find the answer than not at all. :thumbsup:

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 22:27
good man thats why i was asking about your cpu,now all you need is a motherboard.

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 22:31
my lovely 2B motherboard , how i mistreated you and called you names ...please forgive me :-(

Apollo you freaking @fghhj:"DEE@@@@$$!!! oops not your fault either..

ROM - i hate you

---------- Post added at 22:31 ---------- Previous post was at 22:29 ----------

perhaps if the ROM seller had mentioned , just once that it was MMU/FPU firmware / libs in the rom ...i would not of taken to drinking heavily, smoking and taking large doses of Asprin...

not too much to ask?

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 22:31
my lovely 2B motherboard , how i mistreated you and called you names ...please forgive me :-(

Apollo you freaking @fghhj:"DEE@@@@$$!!! oops not your fault either..

ROM - i hate you



hahahahahaha,you know what the more i read this these threads you make the more i like you mike.awsome

Justin
20th March 2012, 22:32
---------- Post added at 22:31 ---------- Previous post was at 22:29 ----------

perhaps if the ROM seller had mentioned , just once that it was MMU/FPU firmware / libs in the rom ...i would not of taken to drinking heavily, smoking and taking large doses of Asprin...

not too much to ask?


liar, liar, your pants are on fire:lol:

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 22:38
All because the lady loves Apollo roms

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 22:40
All because the lady loves Apollo roms







haaaa,hahahahahahaa

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 22:43
unsoldering the rom - 15 mins
fitting a new one - 5 mins
fitting the regulator pins 15 mins
unsoldering the cpu and fitting a socket about a hour

The look on his face when its the wrong ROM ....priceless.

for everything else in life, theres Amiga.


=======================

So i have a choice , get a CPU with MMU & FPU (preferable but expensive)
or copy EC firmware rom to a blank eprom (cheaper)
or get another ROM as i put mine in a socket anyway :-)

=========================

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 22:50
:lol:ok mike,i think youve had one too many,but seriosly i would like to know what version that rom is:)

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 22:57
Such is my paranoia about - well it must be something I've done! that i have.

Resoldered.

every cpu pin again (socket)
every resistor / capacitor
every ic pin
cleaned and re tensioned each pin in the edge connector
cleaned and polished the ram connector pins.
earthed and applied power directly to the voltage regular
changed the crystal (from a selection of 6 ) every time a cloud passed over.
rebuilt the power pack in to an ATX 500 watt.

and still it wouldn't work lol ....

damn you ROM.

---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------

i don't know roy, its a copy of a 68060 mmu / fpu ROM that was supplied by Apollo.

as my cpu is a 75mhz EC it clearly doesn't like it. however my friends Apollo here at the side of me boots up with gay abandon , i hardly even have to Apply power and its off playing Doom by itself, the little bugger :-)

where as mine has to be prayed to and given a goat sacrifice before it even spins the hard drive up.

i may dump a copy of my ROM tomorrow, has anyone got an alternative rom code?

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 22:59
so do you think its the rom:lol:


it so happens....................theres a copy on the eab file server.


what speed is your eprom mike?

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 23:03
if it isn't I'm going to burn everything with an Amiga logo on it i own!!!

You know i laughingly joked a day or two ago. i wonder if the rom is the right version...

As with any eprom or some anyway - it just says Apollo 1260. the original Apollo roms had a version number printed on them. this doesn't.


===============

this is the error i get when booting in to classic WB . The other apollo boots straight to WB with the original Apollo Rom in it. (both cards are using the EC cpu)

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 23:10
if it isn't I'm going to burn everything with an Amiga logo on it i own!!!

You know i laughing joked a day or two ago. i wonder if the rom is the right version...

As with any eprom or some anyway - it just says Apollo 1260. the original Apollo roms had a version number printed on them. this doesn't.



yeah i know,something like 5.60 or 5.61 i have seen version 5.50 or 5.55 on a 040 card once that worked when converted to 060.

i have a version on my pc.........................somewhere.

but how would i go about linking it to you here?theres no zone to drop it in.


hey mike that picture cant be an error,i get that when my card boots,and all the apollos i have ever had do that screen.you sure its the right screen?

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 23:19
email or dropbox

i think i have a blank eprom somewhere here i'll take a peek :-)

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

I'm going to have make an ~Apollo website with all this info on..

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 23:20
email or dropbox

i think i have a blank eprom somewhere here i'll take a peek :-)




no probs if you send me a pm with your e-mail i'll have a look on my pc in a bit.
the file is 128k in size itll be ok wont it?

also is that the card your talking about(the repaired one)in post 3?

because i cant see whats writen on the eprom.


edit : ive found the rom just need a email address

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 23:26
err hang on..

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ----------

its a 60/555 by the looks of it


the pic is from Amiga hardware.

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 23:29
err hang on..

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ----------

its a 60/555 by the looks of it


the pic is from Amiga hardware.



if i was you mike ide copy that eprom mate,the 60 stands for the cpu and the numbers after are the revision its a 5.55

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 23:33
yes i dump all code before i erase stuff just in case i cock it up - pardon the phrase

but i may try keep a collection of em

---------- Post added at 23:33 ---------- Previous post was at 23:31 ----------

Apollo rom versions

- V3.55: Boots now quickly disposed of at the A1200 (error)
- V3.56: Runs now with SQ3105-AT-removable disk
- V3.59: RAM installed involvement!
- V3.60: runs with a first CD-Rom
- V4.00: Standardization of the version numbers 1994 - expanding RAM
- V4.01: Fixed bug
- V4.02: RAM also runs out at HD
- V4.03: SCSI reset completely rausgenommen
- V4.04: BUG in wait for the SCSI 2.Controller if AT plate as
- V4.50: switches affect only the boot time
; Caches turned off at the beginning
- V4.51: caches at the end restored (not working)
- V4.52: as above, but functional
- V4.55: RAM-involvement improved ED-RAM support
- V4.56: SCSI and AT decoupled, it no longer have to both devices
; Be on each plate on it, one well enough.
- V4.57: RAM-involvement improved upper 2GB are no longer
, Scan, scanned at 4040 only in the range $ 08 - $ 10
; Assignment of "serial" in Autokonfig has changed to
- V4.58 bug when Speichereinbinden in 4040 resolved
- V4.60 Ram integration moved forward in the Diag-entry routine
- V4.61 Adding support for> 2GB disks
- V4.62 support of the ED gebugfixt RAMS!
- Version V5.00 extradition to XX40 Card
- V5.00a 3.10.95 fixed bug when ED RAM
- V5.00b 6.10.95 Bug fixed in the absence of a device
- V5.00c 8.10.95 Copying 60SP into RAM and start it.
- V5.00d 1.11.95 CacheClearU afternoon copying, so that code in memory
- V5.01 28.11.95 Again ED RAM bug solved.
- V5.02 29.11.95 Fixed bug in the SCSI switch
- V5.10 02.12.95 transformation of 8KB ROMs into a 16KB ROM
- V5.11 02.12.95 A3000 Kick3.1 bug fix
; ****** FROM NOW, THEREFORE NO LONGER SUITABLE FOR OLD 4BIT ROMS *******
- V5.12 04.12.95 A3000 Kick3.1 bug fix Fix (ROM checksum)
- V5.14 09.12.95 A3000 Kick2.0 bug fix
- V5.15 10.12.95 BugFix in A3000 Kick2.04 patch
- V5.21 27.12.95 integration of SCSI devices, if present at EPROM
; 68060.library integration of the system
- V5.22 16.01.96 involvement of the SCSI devices bug fix
; Involvement 68060.library back into the system out
- V5.23-V5.40 test the RAM involvement by MMU, but abandoned
; Because DMA is not so runs, so back to V5.22
- V5.50 to V5.22 REGENERATIVE 01.03.96 !!!!!
; Reloc routine improved to also run with AFS
- V5.51 08.03.96 AKTIVAT-ED rausgenommen provisional restoration,
, Since problems with the 2030 does (from $ 08000000)
- V5.52 10.03.96 AKTIVAT-ED back in, gebugfixt for 2030,
; Reloc routine gebugfixt
- V5.55 08.04.96 Apollo neutralized in the ROM
- V5.60 10.12.96 support of 2/8MB-Rams and all assignments
- V5.61 28.03.97 Special A600 version without SCSI

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 23:43
yep, that makes sense now.


let me know what version i just sent you will you i dont remember which one it was i had.


that list is interesting when it gets past version 4.55 that must be for the 4040 4060

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 23:45
5.60 17/12/96 according to the hex editor


No mention of ec or lc versions of the code / firmware or Libs

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 23:51
5.60 17/12/96 according to the hex editor



totally off topic but can you read whats on that rom?

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 23:51
only as text but yes

TheCorfiot
20th March 2012, 23:52
Mike

If you need an Eprom programmed, send me the code & I'll get it done for you fella....
If you want send me your existing Eprom & I will blank it & program it with the code you want FOC

TC ;)

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 23:53
any chance of a printout,more importantly is it allowed

TheCorfiot
20th March 2012, 23:54
any chance of a printout,more importantly is it allowed


I don't see why not :whistle:

mjnurney
20th March 2012, 23:56
Turbo 040/060: V5.60 - 17.12.96
- Written by Zuheir Urwani and Thomas Kolbe, PROFITEAM Software, Kronprinzenstr. 22, 44135 Dortmund, Germany

NęNudos.libraryJ¸ż@Turbo-System 040/060Turbo 5.668060.library»Ű S
Apollo.deviceSCSI-Apollo.deviceexpansion.libraryFileSystem.resourceH>:Profiteam!FastFileSystemtimer.device

Nucard.resourcecdstrapexpansion.library
SCSI-Apollo.deviceSCSI-Apollo.device 5.21 (25 Feb 1996 Z.Urwani & T.Kolbe)
dos.libraryexpansion.library
Softworks by Profiteam SoftwareApollo-REQ.interruptApollo-TO.interruptJ9
AT-Apollo.device

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:55 ----------

thank TC but i have an Eprommmmmer here, just have to remember how to use it. Still I'm not busy at the mo..

but thank you , thats very kind of you :-)

i've put up some highlights of the code roy, nothing exciting.

roy_bates
20th March 2012, 23:58
any chance of a printout,more importantly is it allowed


I don't see why not :whistle:


cheers,im curios as to whats in the code itself.:)

---------- Post added at 23:58 ---------- Previous post was at 23:56 ----------


Turbo 040/060: V5.60 - 17.12.96
- Written by Zuheir Urwani and Thomas Kolbe, PROFITEAM Software, Kronprinzenstr. 22, 44135 Dortmund, Germany

NęNudos.libraryJ¸ż@Turbo-System 040/060Turbo 5.668060.library»Ű S
Apollo.deviceSCSI-Apollo.deviceexpansion.libraryFileSystem.resourceH>:Profiteam!FastFileSystemtimer.device

Nucard.resourcecdstrapexpansion.library
SCSI-Apollo.deviceSCSI-Apollo.device 5.21 (25 Feb 1996 Z.Urwani & T.Kolbe)
dos.libraryexpansion.library
Softworks by Profiteam SoftwareApollo-REQ.interruptApollo-TO.interruptJ9
AT-Apollo.device

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:55 ----------

thank TC but i have an Eprommmmmer here, just have to remember how to use it. Still I'm not busy at the mo..

but thank you , thats very kind of you :-)

i've put up some highlights of the code roy, nothing exciting.



im looking for the part of the code that point to the memory addressing,there should be something about a 16mb block check.

mjnurney
21st March 2012, 00:01
the best way is download a hex editor and take a peek roy , Freeware Hex Editor XVI32 on Windows or HEX Fiend on OSX both free.

file open - Apollo.bin and bingo

---------- Post added at 00:01 ---------- Previous post was at 00:00 ----------

half of the rom is empty as far as i can tell.

roy_bates
21st March 2012, 00:03
the best way is download a hex editor and take a peek roy , Freeware Hex Editor XVI32 on Windows or HEX Fiend on OSX both free.

file open - Apollo.bin and bingo

---------- Post added at 00:01 ---------- Previous post was at 00:00 ----------

half of the rom is empty as far as i can tell.


thanks mike,its been so many years since ive looked at code ive forgoten what to use to look at it.


yeah i know half of it is empty afaik,i was looking at it in binary lol

mjnurney
21st March 2012, 00:33
Really all this is for my Apollo 1260 not this one that's been fixed so this is the wrong thread for the viewers.

For those of you watching in black & white, the brown is behind the red :-)

mjnurney
23rd March 2012, 18:14
UPDATE to this thread.

My Apollo and this repaired Apollo are now working fully with firmware Rom 5.60 on an XC68060@66mhz 64mb ram.
its fast and error free, playing 060 demos and generally amusing itself.

The problem all along was the EC cpu. This apollo it worked just fine but in mine it would not boot without CPU cache turned off. - pointless really.

But.

The XC68060 has cured all its problems and i suspect the upgraded 5.60 boot rom has helped too.

all the best.
mike.

PS

I have a MC68060 on the way and a XC68060 so we'll see if i can hit 80mhz or so.

---------- Post added at 18:14 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ----------

http://youtu.be/qfzqKueXjMU

This vid is of the Apollo 1260 running at 66mhz with a geforce heaksink sat on it. it does get warm after ten mins but the heaksink keeps it nice and cool.

One odd thing about this card is occasionally it forgets it has ram ? a quick clean with ipa and reseat the ram and its fine. now it could be because I'm pulling the card in and out constantly trouble shooting thats naffing it off. don't know but its fine now..

odd.

http://youtu.be/qfzqKueXjMU

Doom with midi instruments added.

roy_bates
23rd March 2012, 18:23
it might be the ram jumper on the card mike,try giving it a bit of a clean and bending the pins out to make the jumper tight.

or it might be that the mach 210 needs to be re-seated as well.

its still a result though.

mjnurney
23rd March 2012, 18:26
cheers roy , I've just done that

popped both machs out and cleaned the pins & sockets with ipa

my friend should have a super stable card here me thinks..

roy_bates
23rd March 2012, 18:34
i think you friend will be chuft to bits,not only has he/she got it back working its also a bit faster.

are those two videos supposed to be the same mike?

mjnurney
24th March 2012, 10:22
opps no they were different but i was very tired yesterday.

no matter same old stuff , one was at 50mhz and one at 66mhz. Just for the owner to see it running really nothing more.

the XC does get warm at 50mhz and very warm at 66mhz. So i hope he bolts a fan on somehow.

I've supplied him with 50mhz and 66mhz crystals so he can play about with it.
:-)