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WHiZZi
20th March 2012, 20:50
Hi,

I have an Amiga 4000T with Cyberstorm MK II / 060 and SCSI module. I have a Quantum SCSI hard disk attached to it and this is able to boot Workbench 3.1.

I also have an external SCSI device with SyQuest drive (which is working) and a Philips CDD3600 SCSI inside. This last one, I don't know if it's working or not :/

Today I received a brand new AmigaOS 3.9 install CD and a IDE CF reader. I opened up my Amiga and connected a brand new IDE cable to the connector which indicated CN650 on the main board. So far so good.

I started to connect a bit more reliable CD drive which actually spins up and seems to be able to read disks. But no matter how hard I try, the Amiga won't boot up from it nor can I see it inside WB 3.1. The light on the front is showing activity...
So, I figured.. maybe bad luck and I connected the CF card reader (without power) and booted up WB again. Again, no sign of a card reader (with inserted card obviously).

The only thing I can think of, is that inside WB 3.1 something is broken or disabled (IDE?) ? It still could be a hardware problem though, although it seems to work if I'm watching the lights go on and off...

It's been years since I used Workbench in any way and I can't boot up a 3.1 original diskette for I'm the lucky one to have an 68060 CPU and not the library-files.

Can somebody help me out what to do so I can install AmigaOS 3.9 on my CF card?

The installed WorkBench is really dodgy because it is missing all kinds of hard drives. Again, it's been years since I used WorkBench and the last 10 years I've been using Linux only.. So, I kinda forgot how everything seemed to work :(

lostrego
20th March 2012, 21:49
Make sure that the CD device driver in dosdrivers that you are using is pointing to:

2nd.scsi.device


As for what I know this is the one that the 4000Ts use for the IDE port (I may be mistaken as never had an A4000T though).

The same with hdtoolbox to prep that CF card (I assume that it is not partitioned/formatted yet).

WHiZZi
20th March 2012, 22:09
Ok, after playing around with the SCSI id's, I managed to get the CD-drive working in the external SCSI thing.

The CF is still not visible, I'll try with the hdtoolbox (if I can find it on the almost broken HD).

AmigaOS 3.9 doesn't seem to boot up (it's now 3rd device, 1st = HD, 2nd = SyQuest drive) but it should be able to boot right?
Also if I start AmigaOS 3.9 installer from the current WB, it ends with error 3. I'll google it anyway..

As I already mentioned, it's been a while since I've used Amiga. It's also a good option to make a backup boot disk I guess, especially since I use an 68060 CPU. Sorry for my bit stupid questions, but how on earth can I make a boot disk in WB 3.1 ??

The boot loader cannot see the external SCSI CD drive so I cannot select it there :/

lostrego
20th March 2012, 22:31
@WHiZZi :

A normal amiga can not boot directly from CD (never they can, well unless you manage to do some hackery with custom kickstarts or by using a Deneb or some such to load the drivers at the machine start, but that's not the point here) :)

Normally you'll need to make a rescue floppy disk from the 3.9 installer if you can get to that part of the install.

The other option will be make a boot floppy disk by hand from the 3.1 install, but I'll be a bit more tedious, and ATM I've not my Amiga at hand to make a step by step quick guide to do so, maybe someone around can help you if needed.

And the other doubt that you say: normally for selecting a boot device you can do it by pressing the two mouse buttons at the startup to get to the early startup menu, but you'll never see there the cdrom unit as I told before amigas haven't the ability to see them until a proper device driver is loaded for it.

Good luck, at least things are getting in to the right way :thumbsup:

Just another question, have you any in working order amiga for doing those duties, say make a boot floppy from os3.9 install cd or to copy the 68060 libs ?

fitzsteve
20th March 2012, 22:34
My advice is to setup OS3.9 within WinUAE (http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/os39uae.html), copy to your CF card (again within WinUAE) and then use the ready prepared CF on your A4000T :)

Remember you will also need Workbench.Library in your Libs folder as it is not present on the A4000T Rom and of course copy the Phase5 060 Libs (http://phase5.a1k.org/index.php?driverslibraries) :cool:

Again all work can be done in WinUAE and then just hook it up to the Amiga after and switch that bad boy on!

D.B
20th March 2012, 22:36
@WHiZZi :

A normal amiga can not boot directly from CD (never they can, well unless you manage to do some hackery with custom kickstarts or by using a Deneb or some such to load the drivers at the machine start, but that's not the point here) :)

Normally you'll need to make a rescue floppy disk from the 3.9 installer if you can get to that part of the install.

The other option will be make a boot floppy disk by hand from the 3.1 install, but I'll be a bit more tedious, and ATM I've not my Amiga at hand to make a step by step quick guide to do so, maybe someone around can help you if needed.

And the other doubt that you say: normally for selecting a boot device you can do it by pressing the two mouse buttons at the startup to get to the early startup menu, but you'll never see there the cdrom unit as I told before amigas haven't the ability to see them until a proper device driver is loaded for it.

Good luck, at least things are getting in to the right way :thumbsup:

Just another question, have you any in working order amiga for doing those duties, say make a boot floppy from os3.9 install cd or to copy the 68060 libs ?

Unless you have a CSMKIII or CSPPC card. Afaik, these cards can control CDROM's before the OS is loaded.

Also, cards such as the KickFlash 4.0 can be used to pre-load all sorts of drivers before the OS even boots. :thumbsup:

lostrego
20th March 2012, 23:27
but you'll never see there the cdrom unit as I told before amigas haven't the ability to see them until a proper device driver is loaded for it.



Unless you have a CSMKIII or CSPPC card. Afaik, these cards can control CDROM's before the OS is loaded.

Also, cards such as the KickFlash 4.0 can be used to pre-load all sorts of drivers before the OS even boots. :thumbsup:

Hey yes, I was terribly mistaken here! How I don't realized before that the Walker can also boot directly from CD thanks to the 3.2 ROMs and... ehhhr, wait! it's just a prototype! :p

I'm just kidding a bit, dont take me too seriously ;)

So D.B. , for sure there are some options (third party ones) that can made this possible by pre-loading the said drivers at start (but again, neither the amiga by itself nor their original official stock roms can do that by themselves).

BTW he was asking on how to install an os3.9 and I only was explaining him why his amiga can't boot directly from CD, as It's a very common mistake to think that the amiga behaves like a moderm PC do in this matter.

:)

WHiZZi
21st March 2012, 08:03
Thanks for the answers so far.

I don't have another Amiga with CD drive (I do have 2x A500 and one with A530 addon). I'll look into the WinUAE thing which I can only do at work (I don't have a CF reader at home :unsure: and only Macbooks and one Linux server)

I kinda figured that the Amiga won't boot up from CD. I'm not that ignorant ;). I used to have a A600HD and A1200 and the last one had a CDDrive as well. But I'm talking about 10 years ago or so and I found out I kinda forgot how to work with Workbench.

My A4000T has a floppy drive and I'm sure I should be able to startup the AmigaOS 3.9 installer from the CD (within Workbench 3.1). For some reason it immediately gives me an error (Interpreter: Error on line 3.. something like that). So, with my logical thinking I'd say my workbench installation is pretty broken and perhaps if I can boot the machine with some kind of rescue disk or with the startup rescue disk of OS3.9 (?). All I need to know is how I can make a rescue disk (can be both floppy disk or even the 270MB SyQuest drive).

WHiZZi
21st March 2012, 10:30
Ok.. I think I managed to get the OS installed on the CF using e-uae under Linux / Ubuntu. The MS Windows within the VirtualBox just didn't work ...

If wanted, I can make a small howto install OS 3.9 under Ubuntu using e-uae. I also figured how to create at least a bootable thing (I think). AmigaOS doesn't need to create a Bootrecord or make a partition bootable (right?).

Only thing left is to find out how to get the CF card reader running, I think I know how.

lostrego
21st March 2012, 11:10
a quick hint with the installer: Maybe the problem is due to an old version of the install command of that old 3.1 wb, try to replace it with the one supplied by the 3.9 install cd.

WHiZZi
21st March 2012, 13:19
Sounds ok.. but how ? Will that be the AmigaOS3.9/os-version3.9/install-tools/installer tool ?

lostrego
21st March 2012, 17:14
It must be in the c drawer, either in the already installed WB and on the 3.9 install CD, but again I haven't my amiga setup around ATM neither UAE etc... so I can't check and tell you where is it exactly located on the install CD file structure, but normally the c drawer should be at root.

The command is named installer or some such, just replace the one at the 3.1 partition with the newer one from the CD.

Consider that the instalation of the 3.9 (and mostly every amiga program) is based on an install script that is executed by that installer command, and yes, normally the install script of the 3.9 crashes if an old version of that installer is used, say the one from a 3.1 WB :) .

D.B
21st March 2012, 19:50
a quick hint with the installer: Maybe the problem is due to an old version of the install command of that old 3.1 wb, try to replace it with the one supplied by the 3.9 install cd.

It won't fit on the Stock Floppy iirc. You can delete some useless Utils & CMD's from the C: Dir I guess or:

You could make a Custom Workbench Disk that has the CD0: Icon in Devs:drivers & any relevant Filesystem in the Libs etc.

Then you can insert the OS3.9CD & try running the Install. If it still fails, then run the Setup again, but create an Emergency Boot Floppy. Once this i s done, re-boot with said OS3.9 Boot floppy, but power off for 10 seconds to clear Ram & any ROM that might already be present.

After that, just get back in there & run the Install again. :thumbsup:

WHiZZi
21st March 2012, 20:02
I managed to get AmigaOS 3.9 installer going using the AmigaOS3.9/C/Installer! Yay!

I even created a Rescue disk and I am able to boot that rescue disk so I can start installing AmigaOS 3.9 on my CF card.

The whole trick using UAE or E-UAE doesn't work for it doesn't support direct access to the drive. I can make a 2GB Image and partition it within the OS3.9 Installer, but I couldn't get my Ubuntu ready to create and mount an AFFS partition. So, all in all, that didn't work.

At this moment, I'm installing AOS3.9 on my CF card.. I'll keep you update how it will turn out!
It seems it doesn't have issues with the 68060 CPU or CyberVision. I can even go higher resolution w/ 16bit colors.

lostrego
21st March 2012, 20:22
a quick hint with the installer: Maybe the problem is due to an old version of the install command of that old 3.1 wb, try to replace it with the one supplied by the 3.9 install cd.

It won't fit on the Stock Floppy iirc. You can delete some useless Utils & CMD's from the C: Dir I guess or:

You could make a Custom Workbench Disk that has the CD0: Icon in Devs:Drivers & any relevant Filesystem in the Libs etc.

After that, just get back in there & run the Install again. :thumbsup:

I think that no custom made boot floppys are needed to overcome this issue.

At this point, and as he described, I understand the the 4000T already boots from one of its scsi hard disks with an existing 3.1wb setup and this 3.1wb already have the needed device drivers for mounting that scsi cdrom that he told to have.

But as he boots from that 3.1 wb on hard disk whe he try to run the 3.9 installer it probably fails because it invokes and use that troublesome 3.1wb installer command instead of the correct one.

So, I think this is the easiest way to either do a 3.1 to 3.9 update install on that hard disk or creating that emergency floppy for whatever else. :)

---------- Post added at 21:22 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------


I managed to get AmigaOS 3.9 installer going using the AmigaOS3.9/C/Installer! Yay!



:D

Good news, once reached this point any of the rest things to do with it will be a quite easy job.

Time to start enjoying that nice 4000T ;)

D.B
21st March 2012, 20:36
@ lostrego

Sure, but these are not PC's we are dealing with. They are Amiga's & lots of times, there is more than one way to skin a cat. :)

@ WHiZZi

Sounds like you're making headway. :thumbsup:

WHiZZi
21st March 2012, 22:45
:D

AmigaOS 3.9 Installed on the 2GB CF and it can be booted from there. Tomorrow I'll install the Aminet2000 drivers for my brand new secondhand network card and hopefully I can connect to the internet and update it as far as I can :)

Thanks for all the help so far :)

lostrego
22nd March 2012, 16:49
@WHiZZi

Just one question of curiosity, why you what to use the IDE + CF as the main system boot drive?

Just asking because the 4000T's onboard IDE is by far a lot slower and CPU time consuming than any of the two SCSI controllers that you already have, say also that you already have some working SCSI hard drives on it...

Would not it make more sense to use the SCSI for that purpose ? rather than using an slow IDE CF/hard drive setup, and just let the CF as a removable media to interchange files between your linux box an the 4000...

Unless you want to get rid of the SCSI hard drives for any other reason (noisy drives etc...)

Just curiosity :)

D.B
22nd March 2012, 16:55
@WHiZZi

Just one question of curiosity, why you what to use the IDE + CF as the main system boot drive?

Just asking because the 4000T's onboard IDE is by far a lot slower and CPU time consuming than any of the two SCSI controllers that you already have, say also that you already have some working SCSI hard drives on it...

Would not it make more sense to use the SCSI for that purpose ? rather than using an slow IDE CF/hard drive setup, and just let the CF as a removable media to interchange files between your linux box an the 4000...

Unless you want to get rid of the SCSI hard drives for any other reason (noisy drives etc...)

Just curiosity :)

SCSI all the way & CF for removable media only. :thumbsup:

WHiZZi
22nd March 2012, 18:38
Well, the only SCSI disk I have (a Quatum 260MB one) sounds like it's going to die real soon. This disk didn't boot up in the first place and after I 'gently' asked him to start working, it now works. If I don't turn on the Amiga for 2 days, I have to re-do this.

Besides that, it makes an awful noise and only has 23MB free (and at this point, I don't want to delete things from there because that still is a working system).

I've now installed AmigaOS 3.9 and all the way up to BoingBag 4. I still can't get the NIC going. I bought this card (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/amiganet2000) and using that driver which gives me a yellow error message :unsure:

So, if anyone has a good idea how to get that thing going, I'll be going :bowdown:

lostrego
22nd March 2012, 20:37
Well, the only SCSI disk I have (a Quatum 260MB one) sounds like it's going to die real soon. This disk didn't boot up in the first place and after I 'gently' asked him to start working, it now works. If I don't turn on the Amiga for 2 days, I have to re-do this.

Besides that, it makes an awful noise and only has 23MB free (and at this point, I don't want to delete things from there because that still is a working system).

I see, I'd not trust something like that either :lol:, even more if it needed some gentle dose of ye olde whack to get it going.:deadhorse

But those Quantums are really hard to kill, I remember an old Quantum 2.5GB SCSI drive that I had that was almost totally dead doing all kind of weird horrid noises, so I opened it to se how its guts were like, the most funny thing is that after that I closed it and said "yes it's gonna work for sure..." so I plugged it back expecting some lulz to happen and guess what happened...

It booted! like new! , well not so, after that it started to loose more and more sectors as time passed (maybe some irrelevant dust impurities on the disk plate had something to do but who cares:ROTFLOL2:) .

Perhaps It will be a good future investiment a decent second hand 50pin SCSI hard drive or an SCSI to IDE conversor but well that's up to your choice.



I've now installed AmigaOS 3.9 and all the way up to BoingBag 4. I still can't get the NIC going. I bought this card (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/amiganet2000) and using that driver which gives me a yellow error message :unsure:

So, if anyone has a good idea how to get that thing going, I'll be going :bowdown: I've no experience with this card but for what I see is a quite old model, sure that drivers work with modern setups, say WB3.9, 060 etc... ?

Good luck :)

WHiZZi
23rd March 2012, 09:28
That'll be a future investment, for now I'm mostly trying to get the Amiga on the Internet.. because it can ;)

I found these (http://aminet.net/package/driver/net/HydraDriver144.lha) drivers on Aminet and found that the ones originally given on the disk (which is on the amigahardware page) never worked.. here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56594) and here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28403). So, I downloaded that and will test it out tonight.

D.B
23rd March 2012, 09:50
If it helps you make a decision later, please do consider replacing the SCSI drive/s @ some point. Your Amiga will perform in a far superior manner than when using IDE devices. :thumbsup:

lostrego
23rd March 2012, 17:15
That'll be a future investment, for now I'm mostly trying to get the Amiga on the Internet.. because it can ;)

I found these (http://aminet.net/package/driver/net/HydraDriver144.lha) drivers on Aminet and found that the ones originally given on the disk (which is on the amigahardware page) never worked.. here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56594) and here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28403). So, I downloaded that and will test it out tonight.

Yep, not also for internet, an ethernet card is very handy also for filetransfers via your own LAN using either SMB (that is a bit of headache maker to get it going on amiga side) or by simply mounting a FTP server on your linux box and using whatever FTP client on Amiga side will do de job ok.

For me since I've got an ethernet card on my amiga I haven't touched any CD/DVD nor any other removable media for years, I get all done via LAN transfers.

Say that at some point you need a physical CD to be present for any install ? , no probs, just pass the iso image file of it to the amiga and mount it as a virtual cdrom unit (using isomount or whatever else) and then go . :thumbsup: