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cugar124
23rd June 2012, 21:26
Hi Guys
A Question to see what comes back.

I have a Fully working A1200T OS4.1 system works Great in OS3.9 bit slow in OS4.1 have not managed to get a game to run yet with UAE but only just starting.

OK my question

What would the benefit of me changing to a Sam system over the classic?

I am really torn having been an Amigan from the beginning but after careful thinking I love the OS over every thing else.

Thanks Guys

AL

Tajmaster
23rd June 2012, 21:58
Before upgrading I would ask yourself a question:

Do I use my Amiga for classic gaming/WHDLoad or do I use it for the OS?

If your an old skool gamer and like sessions of Sensi and The Chaos Engine, then stick with the original hardware. OS4.1 can run old games really well in RunInUAE but its a bit of an expensive way to do it.

If you love it for the OS, then go for a SAM. Its faster and less "rickety" than kludged together Classic hardware. OS4.1 is fast and slick on my SAM440ep Flex (733Mhz). Youll also find anything written for OS4.x will work a lot better on the newer SAM hardware versus the older PPC cards.

Keep in mind that the SAM's sound driver is not yet complete, although there is a mostly working release on OS4 Depot. Also, while the SAM has a PCIe slot, the 3D support for the newer Radeon cards is still in the works, none of this is a deal breaker really but you should know :)

fitzsteve
23rd June 2012, 23:30
As Taj says, there's really no need to run UAE on Classic PPC hardware, you can just dual boot OS3.x and actually run WHDload!

Use OS4.1 Classic for the OS and advanced features such as the Radeon 3D support, nice gui and modern browser, boot into OS3.x for classic gaming :thumbsup:

If you want to experiment with a next gen Amiga the Sam would be a great choice but remember it's still only a hobbyists system, it wont replace your PC but is the best option for running OS4.1 :cool:

I have several Youtube Video's showing my AmigaOne 800mhz PPC (I'm the same name on Youtube) have a look and see if you like what you see :coffee:

Steve.

bdb
24th June 2012, 03:25
I have an A4000 with a 233 PPC and use OS 4.1, OS 3.9 and with my nifty SCSI CFcard reader can easily boot into almost any OS. I do the OS 3.1/3.5 for WHDLoad stuff. I used to use OS 3.9 as my primary work OS, but now that I've worked with OS 4.1, it is my "go to" operating system of choice. I find it very quick and great for surfing; ya got to get to know a little to get "up to speed." I have used UAE, but it is really silly on a classic machine. With a bit of help most programs work well and I don't notice any slowness -- although you can find numbers that show disk access is faster under OS 3.9. I still use the A4000's IDE device to boot into 4.1 despite a very fast UW HDD, so it can't be "that" slow. Check other people's opinions before spending more money

Slayer
24th June 2012, 06:09
Get a modern Amiga if you enjoy AmigaOS

You simply won't regret it


I haven't got a SAM 460ex myself but I might one day for beta testing purposes

Paul_s
24th June 2012, 20:52
Out of interest, how does OS4/IBrowse cope with flash player content?

How about coping with HD content (would the processor be able to handle 1080p content?)

I see Amigakit do two different variety's with differing specs of processor. Does it really matter which to go for?

I only use my PC for Internet/word processing (on rare occasions)/e-mail/extracting rar files/watching HD content from HD files and playing the odd bits of music and of course Amiga gaming... I could bascially live without a PC if the Sam could cope with all this :D

yeah yeah, I know... I'm not usually a lover of these kind of 'Amiga's' but I'd rather run OS4 on something that is stable and probably a little more cost effective/quicker than going the A1200/4000 route and expensive PPC cards which are pretty rare.

jvdbossc
24th June 2012, 21:17
I am a bit in the same situation, currently typing on morphos, but I seem to enjoy a lot of solutions. My latest play was Aros, wich I prefer so far. Sure the games were greate, but hey, time goes on... For me the os concepts of amiga, are the ones who survived, in three re-incarnations. I like the classic os 3.9 with bbq 4 and afaos as well...

But looking at all time spend to get a modern classic up to date, and how much trouble it is going to give you...

It seems that amiga os 4 is getting a firefox port, wich is a big plus..


For me this is the list:

Aros
Amiga os 4.1
morphos (i love hate it, :double)

fitzsteve
24th June 2012, 23:13
I tested Timberwolf which is the firefox port on my 800mhz AmigaOne and it was very slow, impressive that it loads modern pages such as you tube, but was slow and eventually locked up, so not great overall.

Sorry it just wont replace a PC,fun to use but only for some fun away fro Windows, for HD content stick with ya PC...

(I've not tested the X1000 though, maybe that can handle HD...)

Tajmaster
24th June 2012, 23:30
Out of interest, how does OS4/IBrowse cope with flash player content?

How about coping with HD content (would the processor be able to handle 1080p content?)

I see Amigakit do two different variety's with differing specs of processor. Does it really matter which to go for?

I only use my PC for Internet/word processing (on rare occasions)/e-mail/extracting rar files/watching HD content from HD files and playing the odd bits of music and of course Amiga gaming... I could bascially live without a PC if the Sam could cope with all this :D

yeah yeah, I know... I'm not usually a lover of these kind of 'Amiga's' but I'd rather run OS4 on something that is stable and probably a little more cost effective/quicker than going the A1200/4000 route and expensive PPC cards which are pretty rare.

Unfortunately its never going to replace a PC. Fact is that a modern PC is fast and powerful and does everything most people want them to without hassle, AmigaNG machines just arent there yet. Even something simple like plugging in a network cable doesn't "just work" like it does on a PC or Mac, you have to go through a (admittedly simple) wizard. Why? why not just plug and play??

cugar124
25th June 2012, 18:38
Thanks guys for the content so far.

I love the look and feel of OS4.1 but have to agree it is very very slow with any other Browers but IBrowse and it is a no go for Emulation UAE So I think OS4.1 is really an OS for the Modern Machines.
Maybe its time to get rid of the PPC and OS4.1 get a Blizzard 060 for my Miggy and Look for an Amiga One for OS4.1 Shame really but hey thats how we roll.

Al

bdb
26th June 2012, 02:51
What's this "We," pilgrim?

Hell_Labs
28th June 2012, 02:49
Unfortunately its never going to replace a PC. Fact is that a modern PC is fast and powerful and does everything most people want them to without hassle, AmigaNG machines just arent there yet. Even something simple like plugging in a network cable doesn't "just work" like it does on a PC or Mac, you have to go through a (admittedly simple) wizard. Why? why not just plug and play??

MorphOS works.

bdb
28th June 2012, 05:55
The 1965 era IBM 1130 computer I used in High School "worked," with punch cards...

We can't decide what someone else works, wants or needs; that is up to them

Hell_Labs
29th June 2012, 13:59
You miss the point, I was quoting a post about how OS4 apparently needs you to go through some wizard just to set ethernet up.

On MOS you just plug it in.

bdb
29th June 2012, 18:18
Well, OS 4 requires about 5 straight mouse clicks and MorphOs does it during its install process without the clicks, but I have various different NIC options for OS 4, and MorphOS only uses the internal NIC; it does not support the wireless device built in. Hence, In my Amiga Classic, with the extra mouse clicks, I get support for the RTL8029, the A2065, the X-surf, etc.

J.T.Kirk
29th June 2012, 18:28
MorphOS works.

MorphOS isn't AmigaOS though. ;)

bdb
29th June 2012, 19:09
Absolutely!

And won't run on an Amiga. It "smells" like as Amiga but doesn't allow the customization of an Amiga. It leaves an Apple taste in my mouth. Sorry about the metaphors...

Hell_Labs
29th June 2012, 19:42
MorphOS works.

MorphOS isn't AmigaOS though. ;)

It's still an NG Amiga system, it runs more Amiga software than OS4 does, for example WarpOS and PowerUP software.

Weather or not it's AmigaOS is irrelevant, because AmigaOS 4 isn't actually AmigaOS either. Hyperion stood up in court and claimed they didn't use any of the 68K source code. ExecSG was made from scratch by the Frieden bros. Meanwhile you've got people like Dave Haynie telling second hand stories about how MorphOS apparently contains leaked AmigaOS 3.1 code.

As it stands you've got three Current Amiga Operating Systems. None of them are the "real" one.


Absolutely!
And won't run on an Amiga.

Up to 1.4.5 it does.

I honestly don't think supporting an Amiga makes sense past this version. Can anyone say OS 4/4.1 runs any good on a Classic compared to an equivalent cost SAM or Peg II?


It "smells" like as Amiga but doesn't allow the customization of an Amiga.

Citation needed.


It leaves an Apple taste in my mouth. Sorry about the metaphors...

Ew, apple! Yuck poo taste! I am 12!

J.T.Kirk
29th June 2012, 19:49
Actually I have to agree with Dave Haynie. But again Morphos hasn't that Amiga-feeling, while AmigaOS 4.x has it at full. ;)

Hell_Labs
29th June 2012, 20:00
Actually I have to agree with Dave Haynie. But again Morphos hasn't that Amiga-feeling, while AmigaOS 4.x has it at full. ;)

There's no Amiga feeling.

There's a 1.x feeling, a 2.x feeling, a 3.x feeling, a decked out 3.x feeling...

OS4 comes across as basically 3.9 running on a PPC. The prefs is still a mess with a million programs to do one job. Picasso96Mode? Still?:picard

Not actually sure who to believe when it comes to accusations MorphOS stole code, and I don't think it matters. Haynie backed off after a while, apparently he'd just heard from some bloke down the pub sort of thing.

To be honest I'd just open the whole thing up. Too many egos all around. At least if all three were open the quality would even out from code stealing.

bdb
29th June 2012, 20:01
1) you haven't spent much time with OS 4.1, it runs alot of Amiga software especially on a Classic Amiga.

2) Warp Up / Power Up utilizes the PPC which OS 4 does inherently.

3) Why does "68k" code define an Amiga? On the Classic you can "blacklist" an app and run it on the 680x0.

4) Metaphors don't need citation, by their nature they are opinion and the comment means they gave their folders "Amiga" names. MorphOS uses a JIT compiler for native programs.

5) Apple is restrictive in their allowing customizations as MorphOS seems to be; look at the amount of Amiga stuff written by occasional programmers compared to MOS.

J.T.Kirk
29th June 2012, 20:03
You can easily stick with 2.x feeling then. ;)

Hell_Labs
29th June 2012, 20:33
1) you haven't spent much time with OS 4.1, it runs alot of Amiga software especially on a Classic Amiga.


It runs most software that only uses the APIs. See below.


2) Warp Up / Power Up utilizes the PPC which OS 4 does inherently.


Is... this is a joke, right?

On Amiga os 3.x, you wrote PPC software by using either the WarpOS system or the PowerUP system. AmigaOS4 does not support software using them. WarpOS and PowerUP software does not run on OS4.

MorphOS runs System friendly 68k software, WarpOS software, and PowerUP Software.

AmigaOS4 runs System friendly 68k software, but not WarpOS or PowerUP software.

So by simple maths (3>1) you have a bigger software pool.


3) Why does "68k" code define an Amiga? On the Classic you can "blacklist" an app and run it on the 680x0.

Nobody mentioned 68k defining an Amiga.

By the way, I'd love to see your proof for that blacklist claim. Everything I've ever heard says that OS4 shuts off the 68K during boot process and it cannot be reactivated. At least, that was their excuse for lack of blizzard scsi drivers (?)


4) Metaphors don't need citation, by their nature they are opinion and the comment means they gave their folders "Amiga" names.

There was no Metaphor.

Anyway, you can't hide behind "opinion" every time your views are questioned. If someone you knew screamed "it's just an opinion" every time someone said the sky was blue they'd look a bit of a turnip, no?


MorphOS uses a JIT compiler for native programs.

What does this mean. Native to what?

Are you on about 68K software? Because OS4 has to do the same thing.

Actual native MorphOS software is native. There's no JIT anything. JIT PPC to PPC would be just daft.


5) Apple is restrictive in their allowing customizations as MorphOS seems to be; look at the amount of Amiga stuff written by occasional programmers compared to MOS.


This sentence doesn't make sense.

On the first part you make a claim:"Apple is restrictive in their allowing customizations as MorphOS seems to be".

You don't explain why MorphOS seems this way.

The second part of the sentence points to a disparity in software created by "occasional programmers" for Amigas versus MorphOS.

Which again, doesn't really mean anything. I should hope that the system that sold millions has more software than the one that sold 2.6K.

The second part of the sentence can't be assumed to mean anything about the "restrictiveness" of MorphOS, because as well as the difference in lifespan (27 years VS 12 years), it could just mean less need for hacks to get basic functionality going.

You don't need a third party usb driver if the OS already has a working one

Countdown to accusations of trolling in 3...2...1

bdb
29th June 2012, 21:48
You are way too angry to be posting threads

cugar124
29th June 2012, 22:07
Hey Hold on Guys I go away for a couple of days and flame wars have started :o

OK as a guy who has never had any success with Morph OS I don't have an Opinion.


As for OS4.1 for the Classic I have found it fun but too slow to be of any major Use.

OS4.1 really needs a Sam machine or one of these god like machines the X1000.

So what lessons can be learnt from the Classic OS3.9 and before; Well Morph OS, OS 4.1 and I am sure others still allow you to us programs From OS3, SO the lesson is we need developers who don't mind doing cross platform work or even better they developer something Like Open GL which means the programs can be run on either OS.

What I wonder is are there any old Amiga Games programmers on Amibay if there is what chances are there that they might give us a new game which we can BUY.

sorry if I have missed the whole point of the Flame LOL


AL

Hell_Labs
29th June 2012, 22:10
Most of the old coders hangabout EAB.


You are way too angry to be posting threads

I'm calm, and rational. If you were you'd have a rebuttal. :)

AndyLandy
30th June 2012, 09:41
Careful, we don't want to stray into Red Vs. Blue flamewars. We've done very well on Amibay to avoid that entirely so far!

My personal advice to the OP is that I'd stick with a classic Amiga, either an A1200 or an A4000 and pimp it with an '060, rather than go for an OS4 system. OS4 just doesn't have the appeal for me, but then I'm here to relive childhood memories, not buy into modern hobbyist platforms, even if they are derived from the classic Amiga OS.

That said, I'm considering having a play with MorphOS, but that's because I've got PPC Mac hardware coming out of my ears, so I try it quite easily.

:thumbsup:

cugar124
1st July 2012, 12:54
Hi Andy got to agree no flaming please:

AL