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View Full Version : Playing nullmodem/serial multiplayer games over Internet possible?



McVenco
14th July 2012, 19:34
Has anybody ever come up with a way to play serial linked multiplayer games over Internet (TCP/IP)?

F.i. if I want to play Lotus II against another Amiga - back in the days you would connect 2 Amigas via a nullmodem cable or a modem, but with "modern day" Amigas with WHDLoad connected to the Internet, it would be just as handy to use the Internet connection for that.

I think I read somewhere that there is a possibility for that in WinUAE, but can it be done on a real Amiga? (or rather 2, to be precise :))

desiv
14th July 2012, 19:39
Hopefully, we'll let you know tomorrow..
Assuming schedules work out, going to give it a go...

I already have my Stunt Track Racer modem screen responding to "modem" commands on my serial to ethernet adapter..
(I had to set the baud rate down to 1200... ;-) )

desiv

Sensi
14th July 2012, 19:45
http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/page,1.html
Three or four packs with games in Kaillera preinstalled for online gaming were relased before they announced (in 2009 or 2010) the end of whole project :(

desiv
14th July 2012, 19:49
http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/page,1.html

Looks nice, although looks like it requires WinUAE for multiplayer, not actual Amigas, as it's using Kaillera

desiv

Sensi
14th July 2012, 19:51
Of course :Doh:

Peter
14th July 2012, 20:00
Would be amazing to play Super Skidmarks multi player over the net on REAL Amiga's!

McVenco
14th July 2012, 20:42
Hopefully, we'll let you know tomorrow..
Assuming schedules work out, going to give it a go...

I already have my Stunt Track Racer modem screen responding to "modem" commands on my serial to ethernet adapter..
(I had to set the baud rate down to 1200... ;-) )


Does that only work with a serial-ethernet adapter, or with any Internet (TCP/IP) connection (like a USB-RJ45 thingy connected to a Deneb or Subway)?

desiv
15th July 2012, 02:29
Does that only work with a serial-ethernet adapter, or with any Internet (TCP/IP) connection (like a USB-RJ45 thingy connected to a Deneb or Subway)?
Unless the Amiga has it's own serial to ethernet driver and the game will support that, probably not..

For instance, with Firepower, I have to boot off of the firepower floppy, so no easy way to make that work..

In theory, you might be able to support that with WHDLOAD, getting that to tunnel and emulate a modem. However, as WHDLOAD doesn't like ethernet stacks, that is a problem there....

desiv

SkydivinGirl
16th July 2012, 13:45
Desiv and I were going to try Firepower yesterday. Unfortunately, I woke up with a headache and was incapacitated by it all day. :(

In terms of null modem games, I know that the Lantronix adapters can be made to automatically connect two of them together to work like a null modem. You would have to configure the Lantronix through the web interface in order to enter the other user's IP address, but the computer should just see it as a null modem cable once the Lantronix establishes the connection. Hopefully Desiv and I can try out that scenario as well. It would be wonderful to play some of these old games over the Internet.

One of my favorite modem play games was Fighter Duel Pro. When I lived in the DC area, we had official tourneys set up on different BBSs. It was a blast.

Heather

joe384
16th July 2012, 21:41
I think unless the actual games are modified, you will have latency problems.

Some people tried to do this with Sega Saturn link games and had issues.

Although saying that, I've never looked into the technicalities myself, so who knows? :unsure:

imaga_050
16th July 2012, 22:00
I also looked into this a while ago, and i just ended up playing serial link games winuae<->real amiga
My idea was using a Virtual serial port software (can't remember which now).
But i think u would need some kind of buffer because it needs very high latency as joe384 mentioned.

desiv
16th July 2012, 22:01
That's one of the reasons I think we'll possibly have better luck with modem games rather than null-modem games..
And Firewpower will be running at 1200 baud. I realize speed != latency, but I'm hoping the latency of our connection won't be that different that what we might have had with a direct dial-up modem connection. If that game was designed for slower dial-up, it might be more lenient.

We'll see tho.. ;-)

desiv

salaxi54
16th July 2012, 22:17
@desiv: seeing as you're in Oregon and SDG is in North Carolina, the distance is big, but decades ago, i went for a very unorthodox solution for network gaming on my Amiga. I used FM! :blink:
FS II (by Sublogic) is a game that supports nullmodem or modem connection, for both Amigas and Ataris. Late 80's i built an FM transmitter based on the EL-504 tube. Have a friend who lives about 3,5 kmtrs from me, i had my A1000 and he had an A500. So we both had the same setup network-wise: the FM transmitter, FM radio (receiver), and 300 baud modems.
One would start in Answer mode, the other in Originate. Tuned into each other's transmission on the radio, sent the audio to the modem, just as if it were a phone line, establish a connection, and fly away! :)
Here's a rough sketch of what the setup was like:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/BLOCK.jpg
Funny enough, FS ii supported instant messaging in-flight, so we actually had a chat while playing.. :nuts:

desiv
16th July 2012, 23:23
@salaxi54 (http://www.amibay.com/member.php?u=1168)
Wow! That's pretty impressive!!!!
Would have love to have done that!! :-)
Reminds me of a guy I knew who used to do something called "slow scan television" which I thought was pretty neat..

True, we're pretty far away, but when I ping UNC, I get under 100ms latency.
Not local ethernet, but not bad...
I don't know what the latency would have been with a modem to modem connection over the POTS network...

At least it'll be a fun test...

desiv

TroelsDK
17th July 2012, 00:28
Heather you truly are the girl of my dreams! Girls wanting to play forepower!! Oh my if only there wad such girls in my kingdom! :) playing moonstone atm with some friends and manged to complete my quest today :) most of the girls in my cirkle wanting to play retro game is all about tetris and such...

SkydivinGirl
17th July 2012, 13:48
LOL! Thanks Troels. I had a friend in the 90s that I played Firepower with over the modem so I have a particular fondness for the game. It's actually quite difficult, but also a lot of fun.

Heather

Slayer
17th July 2012, 21:44
YAY FirePOWER!

I do believe I own several copies :thumbsup:

SkydivinGirl
22nd July 2012, 21:36
Well, Desiv was nice enough to play a game of Firepower with me today using the Lantronix adapters! While it didn't run perfectly, we played for about a half an hour. I believe the latency was causing some issues. We were disconnected with some errors after playing for a while and the game moved fairly slow.

I hope we can try it again some time. :)

Thanks Desiv!

Heather

Harrison
22nd July 2012, 23:39
I don't understand why the emulation scene hasn't explored network and internet multiplayer. It would be so popular now. SNES9x used to have netplay built in and it worked pretty well. In my old design agency we used to play multiplayer SNES games over the LAN and that worked really well. But they removed netplay since version 1.43 which I never quite understood.

desiv
22nd July 2012, 23:56
Yeah, that was fun...
Unfortunately, I wasn't feeling too good, so I didn't get the opportunity to LOSE to SDG even more than I already was.. ;-)

As SDG said, it was a bit slow at 1200, and especially when we tried the CHAT, it seemed to error out.
The best session we had, there was no chat...

When I did some ping tests, I was seeing latency in the 150ms-250ms range..
(at least to the router, not sure how much extra latency the devices themselves add)

I would think Modem games would probably be better at handling low latency than NULL Modem games.

As for emulators and multiplayer, I think most of them moved to Kaillera: www.kaillera.com (http://www.kaillera.com)

All in all, it was pretty fun...

I need to practice more for next time tho.. ;-)

desiv

Frederic_Freakazoid
27th July 2012, 17:14
It's a shame there's not something like Xlink Kai for the Amiga. It's great for any LAN-type console game that's not meant for the internet. Who do we hire to make a null modem version? ;)

padrino
4th April 2018, 20:08
Hi,

still no news on this topic? ;)

I wonder, in the days of raspberry, shouldn't it be possible with 2 as bridges? :)

CU,
padrino