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View Full Version : upgrading an MC68000 to MC68010



Justin
25th July 2012, 11:53
i stumbled across this at thought it was worth a share:)
http://www.memphisamigagroup.net/diskmags/198803/68010-kit/MC68010.ins?noconvert=1

Gouldin
25th July 2012, 12:15
Just read, and all this time I've only ever used them for being able to quit whdload games :lol:

Storm
25th July 2012, 12:54
I haven't found any programs yet that require Decigel in order to work. Sounds like a hassle to get it working anyway.

bdb
25th July 2012, 15:44
I tried one in 1987 where the 4 to 10% increase is speed was felt do to a decrease in "fetch cycles" -- similar to, but different from the change from an 8088 vs an 8086 CPU. The instruction violation patch was available, but no one at the time, including myself, could tell any difference in speed; but we had another thing to blame Amiga crashes on. I replaced it with a 14MHz 68000 accelerator until the 68020 was available. [The 14Mhz CPU was cool as a few games ran at double speed].

FastRobPlus
25th July 2012, 23:15
I used decigel and an 68010 too back in the day. Mostly becuse I was poor.
I got the part directy from Motorola. I simply called them and asked for a sample for a project and they gave it to me!

Miru
25th July 2012, 23:36
I used decigel and an 68010 too back in the day. Mostly becuse I was poor.
I got the part directy from Motorola. I simply called them and asked for a sample for a project and they gave it to me!


:thumbsup:

If Haage and Partner would still exist I would ask them for a PPC 604e :):D

Justin
26th July 2012, 09:12
now i have read of people using 14mhz 68000s in A500s, if that is the case, is there such a thing as a 68010 @ 14mhz, and if there is would it be usable in the A500?

also i see there are a lot of options for the 68010, which ones are amiga 500 compatible?

thanks, Justin

merlinkv
26th July 2012, 10:01
I can check my 68010 rev later after job. It's a ceramic one "Gold Edition". Just I've replaced the 68000 for the new one and all works fine, no issues detected at the moment. My mobo is the 6a revision with KS 1.3/3.1, 2MB chip, .....

But, I've installed it, just to have more CPU instructions available, not looking for speed increases.

BLTCON0
26th July 2012, 10:17
@Justin
Officially I think versions up to 12 MHz exist. Perhaps they can run reliably at 14 MHz too.
They're more or less direct replacements for the 68000 so of course they're usable in an A500. But the speed increase is minimal (it's also minimal with the 14 MHz hack).
The version you want is 64-pin DIP (either plastic or ceramic, doesn't make a difference).
I also have an 68010 in my A500 like merlinkv (in fact our A500s are pretty similar as I can see!) and have also experiences zero problems. And like merlinkv I got it because it's more "right" than the 68000, not for speed.
There's the Adspeed expansion which is 14 mhz and also has cache to make some real use of the doubled frequency, but I think a member here reported he didn't get it to work with a 12 Mhz 68010.

Justin
26th July 2012, 10:27
thanks BLTCONO:thumbsup:

i have found all my answers here i think:)

"Every few weeks, a series of exchanges about using the 68010 CPU appears in the comp.sys.amiga.hardware newsgroup.

A somewhat related discussion reappears whenever someone asks if putting a higher speed 68000 in an older Amiga will speed up the computer. I hope to offer some answers to those questions in this short article.

First, just putting a 68000 rated at a higher speed will do nothing. The speed of the CPU is not determined by what is printed on the chip. The speed is determined by the computer timing device, its "clock" which is separate from the CPU. So putting a 10mhz 68000 in an Amiga means the Amiga won't run any faster than with an 8mhz 68000. Think of it like this: Which is faster? A Yugo travelling at 55 miles per hour, or a Ferrari travelling at 55 miles per hour? Just because you can go faster does not mean you are going faster. Now there are hacks on Aminet which do change the clock speed of the Amiga to speed up the CPU while keeping the necessary parts of the computer at the necessary, slower speed. Some commercial accelerators have used the same principle. AdSpeed and Supra units come to mind. If you want to construct one of the hacks, be my guest. Don't come to me if it does not work.

Now about the 68010. That IC does exactly replace the 68000 in its socket in any older Amiga. And, that IC does execute some instructions faster than does the 68000. Some small loops and all of the more complicated math instructions are faster on the '010 than on its older sibling. Therefore the 68010 will run programs which use those particular instructions faster than the 68000 will run the same programs. But the speed up is not very great.

My own tests on an A500 indicate ray tracing with Imagine isabout five per cent (5%) faster on the '010. Many respondents to news postings caution potention users of the 68010 to get the old program DECIGEL which will fix a problem with one instruction on the 68000 which is not handled in the same manner on the 68010. They tell everyone that some of their software will crash without decigel. That is garbage. The particular MOVE instruction which messes up on the 68010 but not on the 68000 will also crash any computer using a 68020, 68030, 68040 or 68060 cpu. And all programmers have been aware of that instruction and its problems since the mid-1980s. More specifically, writers of compilers have made sure their code generating software did not use that instruction as it was defined on the 68000.

It has been literally years since any new software for the Amiga suffered from the MOVE SR,Destination bug in the 68000. So, the conclusion. If you want a small speed increase for your older Amiga (A1000, A500, A2000) changing to a 68010 cpu will do it. Since the speed up is small, it will likely be economical only if you get the cpu chip free or for a very low price, and if you are able to do the installation yourself, without paying someone else to do the work. I have 68010 cpus in both my A500 and my A2000. I paid $x.xx for four of the '010 cpu ICs at an Amateur Radio swap meet. For a cost of $x.xx per cpu, it was worth it for a five per cent speed up. You must make your own decision as to whether a 68010 is cost effective for you."

Robert Davis

BLTCON0
26th July 2012, 10:37
Yes, I've come across that text in the past, and it's very accurate.
But I think you got the price wrong, it was $y.zw (j/k :p)

hooverphonique
26th July 2012, 10:37
But, I've installed it, just to have more CPU instructions available, not looking for speed increases.

Why would you want extra instructions? Are you coding your own stuff?

Almost no amiga programs will use instructions found in the 10 that are not available in the 00..

Justin
26th July 2012, 10:41
But, I've installed it, just to have more CPU instructions available, not looking for speed increases.

Why would you want extra instructions? Are you coding your own stuff?

Almost no amiga programs will use instructions found in the 10 that are not available in the 00..

the ability to quit WHDLoad without resetting

piacc64
26th July 2012, 13:21
ideal are add an 68010 16mhz with modify from aminet to use at 14mhz

hooverphonique
26th July 2012, 13:35
But, I've installed it, just to have more CPU instructions available, not looking for speed increases.

Why would you want extra instructions? Are you coding your own stuff?

Almost no amiga programs will use instructions found in the 10 that are not available in the 00..

the ability to quit WHDLoad without resetting

ahh.. well, this is implemented by changing the 68010 VBR (vector base register), not due to "more instructions" per se ;)

Justin
26th July 2012, 13:36
Why would you want extra instructions? Are you coding your own stuff?

Almost no amiga programs will use instructions found in the 10 that are not available in the 00..

the ability to quit WHDLoad without resetting

ahh.. well, this is possible because the 68010 has a VBR (vector base register), not due to "more instructions" per se ;)

lol everyday is a learning day for me:D

merlinkv
28th July 2012, 22:42
ahh.. well, this is implemented by changing the 68010 VBR (vector base register), not due to "more instructions" per se ;)

Some useful links

http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/ref_manual/MC68000UM.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68010

http://www.cpu-collection.de/?tn=1&l0=cl&l1=68010

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/68010/

:coffee:

@Justin

... and for everyone my friend :thumbsup:

woodycool
29th July 2012, 08:49
Looking at the documentation, in implies that the calculator problem is only affected on early kickstart A1000 machines (such as Kickstart 1.0 and 1.1)
Like Gouldin said though, I only really upgraded to a 68010 to have a working 'QuitKey' in WHDLoad on my A500+