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Cluster
20th November 2009, 16:22
Hi all,

I have just started to upgrade my amiga 1200 desktop and I have purchased a phase 5 blizzard 030 which I have put in but when I turn the screen on the screen stays black and then sometimes flashes black/yellow.

Now when I take this card back out the machine kicks back in with the hdd booting back up to workbench 3.1 and all is good again...

If I take out the hdd and put the blizzard in then I can load workbench up from disk and it is showing the 64mb memory on the card correctly and also when I first turn on the amiga with both mouse buttons pressed it says that the card is working ok in the status screens etc...

Unfortunatly I do not have sysinfo or any means of transfering this across to run it so I do not know anything other than the memory works in it.

Now at first I thought that it might have been the power suppply as it turns out I have got a 25watt, weedy, psu but I have since sourced a Goliath psu and attatched it but the same thing happens! Works without the hdd powered and vice versa.

Now I am baffled and am turning to you all for a little bit of help. Anything would be appreciated...

Thanks in advance and I will try and answer your questions but please remember that I am new to this and am on a steep learning curve.

playgeneration
20th November 2009, 17:04
Does the hard drive have a fresh install of Workbench? If not perhaps you have some 030 unfriendly programme loading on startup.
Can you load workbench from floppy disk with the hard drive and accelerator both connected?

Cluster
20th November 2009, 19:11
hi playgeneration,

I will try these out tomorrow as I have no time tonight... I will let you know tomorrow

jvdbossc
20th November 2009, 20:59
I had a 1240 card, it was only willing to boot after 15 minutes with a small laptop hard disk taking the power from the motherboard.

It did not cope with a stronger psu, I have an ATX-> amiga converted power supply to test with..

The card worked a lot better with a big hard disk(desktop hard disk), taking the power from the floppy connector to the hd. (solder)

After I had the appropriate smallhardisk, it did not work and was very very very unstable.

I had a commodore amiga, I think it does not transfer enough power for the two of them! (loosing power on the motherboard)

If I were you, I would test with a big sized hd, taking the power elsewhere, if this works you can alway's trie to cut the power line from the IDE cable and connect it to the floppy cable power supp..

Not sure if it is advisable to use two power supply's, I would check it with someone with electrical knowledge, (that is not me) before.. Make sure you when testing, you do not harm the Amiga!

If this is the prob, you can have a look at the conversion adapters from small to big and from big to small, you will have a power connector then:bowdown:

r0jaws
20th November 2009, 21:09
Does the hard drive have a fresh install of Workbench? If not perhaps you have some 030 unfriendly programme loading on startup.
Can you load workbench from floppy disk with the hard drive and accelerator both connected?

To rule out a rogue program, boot with no startup sequence.

rkauer
21st November 2009, 03:51
To rule out a rogue program, boot with no startup sequence.

And to do that, hold both mouse buttons at cold boot.

Cluster
23rd November 2009, 15:50
Ok now i have some time to check this is the outcome:-

with both the hdd and the blizzard in, and pressing both the mouse buttons down, it still goes to a black screen, and sometimes a yellow screen, however, if I boot with both in and no memory installed in the blizzard then it boots ok. It even states CPU 68030 etc... on showconfig in workbench. Strange! as it seems not to like it when the memory is installed.

Again if I take out the hdd and just boot with the blizzard installed then it goes to the insert disk screen and when in wrokbench it recognises all installed memory and again states CPU 68030 as being used in showconfig.

This is also on a fresh install of workbench 3.1 so there should be no conflics with other software. Should I install again to be sure?

I have also tried booting from the workbench disk on startup but again just goes to black screen and nothing else happens.

I am awaiting an adapter so I can fit a 4gb compactflash card into replace the 3.5inch hdd that is sitting in the machine at the moment. I would have to wait to see if this makes any difference, though I dont see how it could.

Are there any know conflicts with this sort of thing?

Does the motherboard number make a difference? and how do I check which one I have?

Thanks again

Merlin
23rd November 2009, 16:26
So, the Amiga boots with no HD connected but with the Blizzard installed and fully populated with memory.

Silly question; is this Blizzard fitted with a SCSI interface? What you describe with a black screen hints at the hardware being OK, but it says to me that the unit is trying to boot from another device other than dh0:. Even though the hard drive is IDE, the Amiga sees it as a 'SCSI' device, so another SCSI device could take preference at boot-up.

It could also be that you PSU isn't up to it; I would try a modified PSU based on an PC ATX unit.

rkauer
23rd November 2009, 16:39
I'll blame the power supply, no doubt!

The combination accelerator + memory SIMM + full-sized HD is more than it can cope. Swap the 3.5" HD for a laptop-sized unit or a compact flash unit will cure the problem.

Cluster
23rd November 2009, 17:08
Hi people...

No there is no SCSI interface installed on it at this time and I have got a Goliath PSU running it as I also thought that this was a power issue.

Is the Goliath not powerful enough to run it as I dont know what they are rated at?

rkauer
23rd November 2009, 17:22
A Goliath is just an old AT power supply (those used in pc up to the raise of the ATX). They have enough power to supply.

But considering how you are powering the 3.5" HD will make a wide difference. Are you powering it from a split in the floppy drive connector or soldered a molex in the power connector?

The floppy power connector is barely sufficient to feed the floppy itself.

Cluster
23rd November 2009, 19:28
I have just looked and it appears to be powered from the same source as the floppy... Via split in cable. I take it that this is going to be the problem?...

is it best to wait form my cf adapter to come and see what happens?

Merlin
23rd November 2009, 19:57
I consulted our resident master of hackery, Zetr0 this afternoon about this. The verdict is that you aren't getting enough power, particularly to the 5v line and Blizzard cards are very power hungry.

Changing to a CF card may solve the initial problem but an upgraded PSU will be a wise investment, as modern ones can put out a lot more juice than the Goliath.

JLPedro
23rd November 2009, 20:16
I'v burned an entire lane on the front of the board and also on the back, by using the floppy power conector to power an 3,5'' HD internaly. It's better to use another hd or power source.

Cluster
23rd November 2009, 20:21
Well thanks for all of the help :thumbsup:

I will wait to see if the cf works first as I have only just bought the goliath PSU.

Just a couple more questions about the power supplies:-

If it is possibly the Goliath why was it being marketed for upgraded amigas if its not sufficient to run them properly? I am only running a hdd and blizzard.

Also... if its the power running off the motherboard thats the problem, by the 5v floppy power (thats the only power source that I can see), then a bigger power supply wont work any better will it? (If its the floppy power/mobo thats the issue)

Just wondering because I think that this may become a problem again in the future as I am planning to fit an internal CD-Rom drive after christmas

Anyway thanks again for being patient with us amigaly challenged :bowdown:

Merlin
23rd November 2009, 22:25
The problem is the hard drive, particularly if it's a 3.5" one. The A1200 wasn't designed to take these drives and they draw quite a bit more current than a 2.5" drive, as you have noticed when you try to run it with everything connected.

Also, the PSU made by Commodore didn't have much extra grunt for adding much in terms of upgrades and the higher spec ones could draw more than the standard unit could put out.

The Goliath could simply be suffering from old age... for the sake of your A1200 I would replace it with a new PSU.

rkauer
24th November 2009, 00:58
Ahn, Merlin, my friend, just let me clarify the things here:

1- The Goliath PSU is just an old 200W AT PSU wired to work with Amigas.

The age can be the problem here, as their capacitors will dry out and lost a vast part of their capacitance, rendering in bad filtered +5V line.

2- A modern(ish) ATX PSU can use the same case as the Goliath, just check first for the +5V line, which can read 4.85 to 5.15V while in charge (with the Amiga hooked in and turned on). Also check if this is true for the actual PSU in the Goliath!

3- This site (http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_Power_supplies/body_amiga_power_supplies.html) will show how to connect a modern ATX PSU instead the old AT unit you have in the Goliath with excellent results. But if you want to keep it at it is now, swap the internal electrolytic capacitors.

Cluster
24th November 2009, 14:07
Yeah I kind of figured that it could be the age of the power supply but I could not be sure as I have no way of testing these items to not having the knowhow or tools to do it (NOT HAVING DONE ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE). :wooha: Two things scare me and mucking about inside electrical items is one of them lol

I will try and get someone to look at it for me and if its working ok and if too costly to fix then I will look into an atx PSU.

I have seen some sort of convertors on Amigakit, convert ATX PSU's to amiga, looks like the same thing on the link you posted rkauer. I think they were about 35 + postage + then you have to buy the power supply. How would you house it though, wouldnt it be abit dangerouse with the exposed wires?

Cheers again people :)

rkauer
24th November 2009, 15:47
You'll not die from an electrical shock because you put a probe in the Amiga connector.

But if you don't have any prior experience with electronics, then is better leave it to someone who is able to check the problem for you.

Changing capacitors on power supplies can be a bit expensive (maybe 25 for all capacitors). Changing the capacitors in the Amiga motherboard is not (around 8 ).

Pending on the price of a new ATX power supply, is advisable to use a new one than fixing the old.

The Amigakit ATX adaptor is intended for towered Amigas, not to your case. Just use the link I gave in the last post.

jvdbossc
24th November 2009, 23:32
The floppy connector did help in my situation to power a full size hd with another stronger psu, but indeed it takes power from the motherboard so my earlier message is less worth to fix it.:dry:

I am not up to a discussion, so I will trow in another solution, if you want a cheap replacement psu:

http://www.amigamaniac.com/ksrs.html:thumbsup:

He has send me a atx to amiga convertor at a reasonable price. He has also sold me som big memory modules at cheap prices and the kick start switcher wich is another story

---------- Post added at 23:32 ---------- Previous post was at 23:21 ----------

What I meant, it helped for me.

A new psu solution: http://www.amigamaniac.com/ (good working link)

Would then have go with an external HD to test..

Cluster
24th November 2009, 23:56
I will let you all know what happens when my cf adaptor finally arrives... I have my fingers crossed that it arrives soon and solves the problem.

I definatly would not try to do anything major myself as not confident enough, however, nice advice :thumbsup: :bowdown:

Thanks for sending the link to amigamaniac... he has good prices and i will look into the cable if this cf card does not solve problem. I have not found too many amiga shops around when I have looked.

Why does time go so slowly when you are waiting for something to arrive :|

Cluster
28th November 2009, 16:45
Well the CF adapter arrived today and after alot of cursing, as the amiga did not recognise the card etc... I finally got it to work!! :lol:

The blizzard and CF card now skip down the road happily together to workbench land! :thumbsup: No black/yellow screens so all is well once again

Thanks all for your help and ideas... Appreciated :bowdown: