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salaxi54
18th May 2010, 10:21
G'day to all of you! As promised, i have started this thread concerning the CV64/3D card i got from Chiark recently. Here's some pics for starters. It appears the readings i got with the multimeter on the traces are ok. The problem seems to lie on the alkali concentrated around most of the components of the board..

Fishin' chips? :D

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CVA.jpg

Yet more of that..

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CVB.jpg

Here's the trace that was suspect but continuity reads ok. Observe the chips pins underneath it. White residue everywhere..

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CVC.jpg

Any suggestions as to which solvent is best suited for this job? I was thinking of doing a good clean, and once the card works(?) do the laquer thing.
Here's one i found earlier: http://www.surclean.co.uk/product.aspx?id=177&catid=2

Merlin
18th May 2010, 10:54
Zetr0 swears by car screenwash with a toothbrush and it really gets the crud off.

I recommend that you neutralise the alkaline deposits with a weak solution of lemon juice or vinegar first though.

salaxi54
18th May 2010, 11:10
Thanks Merlin, will do. Luckily our lemon trees still have lemons :D

rkauer
18th May 2010, 15:56
A good bath a recipient containing IPA (isoprolyc alcohol) will do, too.

That white "gunk" is battery leakage that goes up to the board as fumes. Or other kind of air pollution.

jvdbossc
18th May 2010, 16:09
Sorry for the little hijack, but is it safe to use any product like vinager, the car window anti freeze stuff, whater with lemon acid, on working boards?? (i have a board that has realy nasty sticky dust on it..)

AndyLandy
18th May 2010, 16:16
Sorry for the little hijack, but is it safe to use any product like vinager, the car window anti freeze stuff, whater with lemon acid, on working boards?? (i have a board that has realy nasty sticky dust on it..)

For that, I'd go with the IPA option first. I've cleaned loads of stuff with IPA and a paintbrush and been very successful :-)

salaxi54
19th May 2010, 15:01
Ok, here's what i did: 1st, i made a solution of 1/4 lemon juice and 3/4 distilled water. Good stir, then applied with a used toothbrush (yummy! :D )
After drying in sunlight, i applied some IPA again with the toothbrush. Most residue was removed. Second drying, then finally applied distilled water only. It looks clean... Although i let it dry again in sunlight, just to make sure i gave it a shot with a hair dryer (cool air). This is an aftershot

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CV644.jpg

Now, for the RTG experts! Well, i really wanna know first of all, what can go wrong if i install it in the Draco. Reason i'm asking is that there's already an Altair, the Kasmin, and the CV would be third up. :)
Would it affect the system in anything? And what would the Autoconfig ID be by the way? Is it possible that i might see anything if i plug a monitor on it from the beginning, or would i still have to do the installation in order to get any picture?

Merlin
19th May 2010, 17:34
Sorry for the little hijack, but is it safe to use any product like vinager, the car window anti freeze stuff, whater with lemon acid, on working boards?? (i have a board that has realy nasty sticky dust on it..)

@ Jurgen

"Science Bit" warning.....:readit:

Citric Acid (the main thing in lemon juice) is used extensively in the engineering industry as a metal brightener, particularly for aluminium alloys. I saw it being used to clean Magnox magnesium/aluminium alloy nuclear fuel cans at BNFL and they came out super shiny :cool:. It's also a weak acid, so it's highly unlikely to etch into the tracks to any degree. Acetic Acid (vinegar) is similar.

:thumbsup:

salaxi54
21st May 2010, 18:28
Had a go on the Draco today, it's a "no-go" still..
I even removed the Kasmin, same thing. Then, i removed the Altair and left the CV alone in there. Still nothing. I was hoping to at least have a report of the Autoconfig in the early startup menu, not necessarily getting a picture from the CV itself. I'll try to repeat the cleaning process tomorrow utilizing vinegar this time. If still nothing happens, i'll have a check on the oscillator.
But first, i'll give it a check by plugging it to the Panzer-tower A2000 :)

Cosmos
29th May 2010, 22:01
>i made a solution of 1/4 lemon juice and 3/4 distilled water

Why using distilled water ?

Zetr0
29th May 2010, 22:37
@Salaxi

my friend, I would look to replacing the Xtal on the card, see if that makes any difference.

Normally if the card fales post then theres a RED screen, However if you are not getting even that its likely the card is inert, hence the pump (xtal) is suspect.

salaxi54
30th May 2010, 01:14
@Cosmos: Well, maybe distilled isn't the correct word for it, but i think that's what it's called? It's actually the kind you would use for electric irons (the one for cleaning salt crystals from the orifices of an iron)..
Thought it would be better thanregular tap water.

@Z: I was just thinking of that, and have some questions about the xtal! The onboard is an 50 Mhz one. Has 4 pins. Searched the evil bay and although the ones i found looked very similar, the description would mention 8-pin! Is it some naming trick? By the way, i plugged the card in my "Panzer" A2000 tower, and nothing showed up there either..

Zetr0
30th May 2010, 02:28
@Salaxi

I think I can help you here my friend =)

25x 50MHz 4 Pin *Half Can* Oscilators (Click for ebay.gr Buy it Now 7.20 Euros + 7.20 Euro's postage) (http://viewitem.eim.ebay.gr/query/110367582865/item)
http://i19.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/3c/17/e3bb_12.JPG

=D

mfilos
30th May 2010, 02:47
I have a spare "full can" 50MHz oscillator (i think it's compatible with the "half can" that Keith posted) that I bought some time ago from Futurlec for my Apollo 630. Call me if you need it man :)

salaxi54
30th May 2010, 09:53
@Zetr0, @mfilos : Thank you both for your replies! Z, that's what i'm talking about, haven't been involved in anything to do with crystals except for my RC models rarely. That there ad still mentions something about 8-pin stuff, and i find it confusing. Physically they look correct. Is that how the 4 pins are measured? (says something about pins 1, 4, 5, and 8...
Mario, thanks for the offer my friend, will let you know if i don't come up with the ideal one :thumbsup:

matt020
28th June 2010, 15:34
Yo.

I was going through some old posts and came across this one. Did you end up getting the card working??

Matt.

chiark
28th June 2010, 18:42
Yo.

I was going through some old posts and came across this one. Did you end up getting the card working??

Matt.

Indeed, I'd be intrigued to know :D

I tried cleaning with isopropyl myself but obviously didn't use enough! the xtal was mentioned before as likely culprit...

matt020
12th July 2010, 02:38
Any progress?

salaxi54
7th September 2010, 10:39
Well, at long last, after a very long crystal-searching adventure, i got it yesterday! Here's the progress so far:

PCB after the oscillator was removed

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CV645.jpg

New oscillator in place!

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CV646.jpg

Bottom of PCB

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CV647.jpg

A good cleanup, and tonight's the night for a test drive! Wish me luck folks..:)

chiark
7th September 2010, 13:07
Best of luck! Fingers are crossed :thumbsup:

Merlin
7th September 2010, 13:15
*Tense*

Good luck Salaxi, we are rooting for you!!

:thumbsup:

salaxi54
8th September 2010, 00:29
Well, i guess i'm out of luck (for the moment)...
A test-drive on the Draco showed nothing!

Here's an error message prior to the Early Startup menu

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CV648.jpg

And here's ShowConfig not detecting anything..

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/salax54/CV649.jpg

I moved the card to every Zorro II slot (there's 5), but nothing changed except the numbers on the error message. Not giving up yet. Next up is the Panzer A2000, but not just yet. There's plenty of other things to work out. :)

salaxi54
1st July 2011, 18:15
This has long been 'paused', but recently i dipped the card in a lemon juice bath for almost a week! :wooha: I then washed it with IPA, let it dry, and plugged it in the A4000. Early startup gives me an 8512 67 report, which means that the card is recognized :) Don't really have time to go through installation at the moment, lots of other (Ami)stuff in priority, but will post any updates asap.

rkauer
1st July 2011, 20:35
A WEEK??????????:blink:

And there was still copper traces on board after that?

salaxi54
1st July 2011, 20:58
A WEEK??????????:blink:

And there was still copper traces on board after that?

Yup! Don't ask me how this happened, i kept observing the pcb for as long as it was in the dip, and used a paint brush to 'caress' a few traces now and then, just to make sure all was in place. Only a few chips have lost their print :) Maybe it's the laquer, dunno..
All i know is the card has awakened :thumbsup:

Merlin
1st July 2011, 21:24
A WEEK??????????:blink:

And there was still copper traces on board after that?

Citric Acid is a relatively weak acid in water, so it won't have enough strength to attack the copper and form copper citrate (to any appreciable amount).