Apollo 4040-4060

Slayer

Slayer

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Hi all

Just wondering (since I just discovered I have another Apollo 4040-4060 card) since the 040 is socketed to upgrade it to 060... all I need is an 060 chip and that 3.3 power converter and change the jumper and we're ready to go right?

so who has these? :help:

and I think I need a 50mhz crystal since whoever used to have this card has put in a:

3X0-12C
80.000000Mhz
C C

This is what is on the 040 chip:

XC68040RC40M

standard 40Mhz 040 no? :nod:

Hmmm, I wonder if this is possible this is a working 040 overclocked to 80Mhz? :blink:

btw, my other Apollo 4040-4060 has a 50Mhz 060 and populated with the full 128 Megs... took awhile to find the right 2 sets of simms (that would work together without errors) but when I did I was quite proud of that achievement :LOL:

Thanks for any thoughts
 
What revision Mach Chip does your Apollo 4040 have? AFAIK it needs to be 131 to be able to upgrade to 060.If you have Mach 130 you'll also need to find the Mach chips.

Steve.
 
fitzsteve said:
What revision Mach Chip does your Apollo 4040 have? AFAIK it needs to be 131 to be able to upgrade to 060.If you have Mach 130 you'll also need to find the Mach chips.

Steve.
Click to expand...

Good Point! From Left to Right (seems you need to replace 2 chips but leaving the middle one)

040
MACH130-15JC 349YJOM / MACH130-18JI 9718MPM A / MACH130-15JC 348YFYV

060
MACH131-15JC 9540MPM A / MACH130-15JC 9601APM A / MACH131-15JC 9540MPM A

Orientation in both examples: scsi port on your left and ram banks on your right

Guess I might as well enjoy my 80Mhz 040 instead? Seems like a mission and a half :cool: (y)
 
Slayer said:
fitzsteve said:
What revision Mach Chip does your Apollo 4040 have? AFAIK it needs to be 131 to be able to upgrade to 060.If you have Mach 130 you'll also need to find the Mach chips.

Steve.
Click to expand...

Good Point! From Left to Right (seems you need to replace 2 chips but leaving the middle one)

040
MACH130-15JC 349YJOM / MACH130-18JI 9718MPM A / MACH130-15JC 348YFYV

060
MACH131-15JC 9540MPM A / MACH130-15JC 9601APM A / MACH131-15JC 9540MPM A

Orientation in both examples: scsi port on your left and ram banks on your right

Guess I might as well enjoy my 80Mhz 040 instead? Seems like a mission and a half :cool: (y)
Click to expand...

Yep, biggest probablem would be finding a dead apollo to salvage Mach131 chips from.

80mhz 040 :blink:

That must be pretty quick around workbench and such, my Apollo 4040 @ 40mhz is pretty nippy, plays Quake for example, very playable at half screen size.

What sort of cooling you got on that?
 
That oscillator is normal. 68040 and 68060 CPUs have an internal clock that's double that of the bus (Like 486 DX2s did) so a 25MHz '040 needs a 50MHz crystal, a 40MHz '040 uses an 80MHz crystal and a 50MHz '060 uses a 100MHz crystal.
 
fitzsteve said:
What sort of cooling you got on that?
Click to expand...

Not even a flick of thermal paste... I'm just wondering if this was a work in progress... The 80Mhz crystal is socketed... I might check to see in the box it came with if there is an original 40Mhz crystal perhaps :unsure:

---------- Post added at 12:18 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------
AndyLandy said:
That oscillator is normal. 68040 and 68060 CPUs have an internal clock that's double that of the bus (Like 486 DX2s did) so a 25MHz '040 needs a 50MHz crystal, a 40MHz '040 uses an 80MHz crystal and a 50MHz '060 uses a 100MHz crystal.
Click to expand...

:Doh:
:LOL:

Did all cards like this come socketed? Seems like they wanted to make it easy during production whether they had an 040 batch or 060 batch I guess...

Thanks for the insight AndyLandy

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------
AndyLandy said:
That oscillator is normal. 68040 and 68060 CPUs have an internal clock that's double that of the bus (Like 486 DX2s did) so a 25MHz '040 needs a 50MHz crystal, a 40MHz '040 uses an 80MHz crystal and a 50MHz '060 uses a 100MHz crystal.
Click to expand...

Just one thing though... my Apollo 4040-4060 060 has this crystal:

Teletec
CrystalO.S.C
50.000MHZ
9336 HLC

:unsure: ;)
 
This is mine:

IMG_9618.jpg


As you can see it has a heatsink/fan installed, I can't tell from the pic if its socketed, I can take a look when I get home from work.

Steve.
 
Actually, this is true only for 040.
A 50Mhz 060 needs a 50Mhz crystal :)

AndyLandy said:
That oscillator is normal. 68040 and 68060 CPUs have an internal clock that's double that of the bus (Like 486 DX2s did) so a 25MHz '040 needs a 50MHz crystal, a 40MHz '040 uses an 80MHz crystal and a 50MHz '060 uses a 100MHz crystal.
Click to expand...
 
UberFreak said:
Actually, this is true only for 040.
A 50Mhz 060 needs a 50Mhz crystal :)

AndyLandy said:
That oscillator is normal. 68040 and 68060 CPUs have an internal clock that's double that of the bus (Like 486 DX2s did) so a 25MHz '040 needs a 50MHz crystal, a 40MHz '040 uses an 80MHz crystal and a 50MHz '060 uses a 100MHz crystal.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That would explain everything then!

Does that mean that an '040/40 has a faster internal clock than an '060/50?
 
Here's some bad pictures of my two boards :LOL:

Here I was thinking the pics from the E63 weren't too bad :blink:
 
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@Slayer

I believe Chain on EAB, successfully upgraded his Apollo 4040 to an 060@100Mhz.

@info

The 040 pumps ever other tick, it has an internal clock divisor "2:1".
The 68k / 010 / 020 / 030 and 060 pump every tick "1:1"
 
Zetr0 said:
@Slayer

I believe Chain on EAB, successfully upgraded his Apollo 4040 to an 060@100Mhz.
Click to expand...

Yes Zetr0 I remember the thread infact I think I contributed at some point during its creation.

Hmmmm, I wonder

Might send him a PM and see what he thinks or if he has any left over spares or whatnot

:)
 
I'd be curious to know if you REALLY need the MACH131 chips for it to function as a 4060. We suspect so because everyone we've seen has them but if you made all the other changes is there a slim chance it would work? (rhetorical question, no-one has tried it yet).

I only ask because mine has 130's
 
Is that a subtle hint for me to pop out my 2 x 130s from the 040 board and shove them in the 060 board? ;-)
 
Did I ever say how much I respect and appreciate you.

Just please take care when removing those PLCC chips. Use a quality PLCC extractor. The plastic of the sockets they are in are probably so brittle having hardened over the years. Oh and remember to clearly mark your chips so you will be able to put them in the right sockets (I'm sure you will).
 
alexh said:
I'd be curious to know if you REALLY need the MACH131 chips for it to function as a 4060. We suspect so because everyone we've seen has them but if you made all the other changes is there a slim chance it would work? (rhetorical question, no-one has tried it yet).

I only ask because mine has 130's
Click to expand...

MACH chips are just programmable logic IC's.
In fact MACH130 and MACH131 are pin-to-pin compatible.
The only difference is the configuration of the gates inside...
This "only" makes big difference. :(
 
Yes. I thought they might both take the same logical programming. If timing was marginal using a 130 with an 060 the developers could have just fitted the more expensive 131 chips to make it work. Don't you think?

The two did not have to be logically different to work with both 040 and 060?

Anyhow that was my train of thought, that they had been programmed with the same logic. Which is why I wanted someone to try it.

If my assumption was true, there is usually some level of process variation between chips. Slim chance that some 130's would work.
 
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Well, both 130 and 131 MACH's are 15ns variants (the fastest is 5ns but never used in Apollo). So I don't think that it's something about frequency.

Maybe (I really don't know) 131 is somewhat improved version of 130 or ACT wanted to avoid mistakes on production line once Apollo 1260/4060 was introduced. And they used only 131 version for both 040 and 060 just to be sure to do not insert 130 into 060 model.
But it's just conspiracy theory.
 
stachu100 said:
Well, both 130 and 131 MACH's are 15ns variants (the fastest is 5ns but never used in Apollo). So I don't think that it's something about frequency.
Click to expand...
I'm not 100% familiar with CPLD speed grades. How can CPLD's have a speed in ns when the path between registers is programmable?

If the 130 was replaced by the 131. Why only replace 2 of the three chips?
 
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