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Thread: My Apple IIe arrived But ....?

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    ViperSan's Avatar
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    Default My Apple IIe arrived But ....?

    So once again I'm asking for help as I am a total Apple Newbie ..
    I assumed I simply had to connect the floppy drive ..
    pop in the DOS 3.3 floppy ..and power up ..
    Sadly ..nothing doing ..
    The floppy starts ok ...a couple of seconds in the screen fills with the letter E ..
    and then the system hangs..
    The are a couple of other disks with it ..
    for example ..
    System utilities
    Computer Inspector
    Print Shop
    etc
    which do appear to run ..so I'm assuming the floppy drive is OK ...and my worst thoughts ..
    The DOS disk is damaged..
    Ok ..
    I figured I could simply pop in the DOS 3.3 floppy I use for the Apple II Europlus ..but no ..
    That one will also not read ..and once again the screen fills with EEs
    I assume this floppy ,which works just fine in the older Apple ..is formatted with fewer sectors ..but assumed it would be backwards compatible ????
    So are there diffences between Floppy drives ? ...and/or have I got fubarred floppies ..
    Or IS there a simpler explanation ..
    I was looking forward to learning about Apple 8 bit compters ..but so far I'm finding the learning curve very steep..
    rgds
    VS
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0143.jpg   DSCF0144.jpg   DSCF0145.jpg  
    Last edited by ViperSan; 9th November 2017 at 20:20.

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    Hi when you turn it on with not disk in what appears on screen?

    and, if you boot without a disk in

    and then control break

    What happens, does the screen clear to a cursor?

    good news about apples is yes they can break but are generally repairable.

    Also, a list of what cards you have inside might help... especially if you have a super serial card.

    cheers, good luck!

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    Nice computer, frustrating problem.

    A few reference links that might prove useful groundwork when coming new to an Apple II, I hope they help.
    http://apple2.callapple.org/begin/ar.../commands.html
    http://www.landsnail.com/a2ref3.htm
    https://archive.org/details/Apple_DOS_v3.3_1980
    https://apple2history.org/history/ah15/

    ...on the specific subject at hand (always accepting I may be talking out of my hat) my best guess is the misbehaving discs are a bit marginal as both systems seem to otherwise read their floppy drives fine.
    Another possibility is the floppy drive with your newer computer may need it's head cleaning (cotton bud and a little IPA) or a bit of realigning.

    Further thoughts:
    To my knowledge a newer Apple II / Disk II FDD card combination should be able to read all good Apple II floppy discs - yes DOS went for a higher density format later on but that should only affect reading / writing of disks between DOS versions, any old disk should just work.
    It may be a different case with your Euro +, being an earlier model (depending on the revision of the PROMs on the FDD card itself) it may not be able to read later DOS versions... um, having said that if it can read a DOS 3.3 disk there's probably no issue there.

    If I'm making any sense I have an assumption and some suggestions:
    -Primary assumption is the misbehaving discs are marginal and this is showing up as differing behaviour with each drive mechanism
    -Secondary assumption, as this issue seems to be with the newer system, that it's drive needs a little TLC
    Testing:
    I presume the Apple IIe has a Disk II card in slot 6 that has a pin connector socket going to be back panel and it's FDD has a cable / plug that fits that, while the Euro + has a similar card but it's connection to the floppy drive is a ribbon cable going through the back of the machine?
    If 'yes' it may be worth your while swapping Disk II interfaces and their respective floppy drives between machines and see if the problem swaps machines - proving the computers are ok, but the specific discs have a problem with one specific interface/drive combo. (most likely the disk, maybe the drive needs cleaning/head allignment, not likely the interface card)
    If the drives actually have the same connector (probably not but you never know) the other thing to do is swap the drives but not the interfaces and see if you can narrow the culprit down further.

    If I had to bet I'd clean the new drive, keep my fingers crossed, but expecting to find / make a new DOS floppy for the new machine...
    ...if the latter I'd grab a DOS image from the 'net, and use ADTPro to transfer that to a floppy using the drive you intend to use (so reducing issues to do with subtle differences between drives). ADTPro is dead easy to use once you've got your PC connected via two audio patch cables to your Apple II and got the sound levels right (like the good old days with computers and casette tape). Sadly, just like the old days, imaging a disk this way is really slow.

    I hope that helps a bit.
    Last edited by Charlie; 9th November 2017 at 23:11.
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    Well fwiw ..I did the self test (after finding out how to on the net) control -open apple - closed apple - reset simultaneously..

    I got a full screen of coloured squares...so I waited..
    nothing reported on screen ...but eventually ..two beeps ..and the screen cleared to say 'system ok'
    A start I suppose.
    To late to start interface card or drive swapping ..
    My 60 year old eyes and MS affected hands make mistakes when I'm fatigued..
    So a photo of the internals for now ...so you can see the condition ..and what cards are fitted..
    I'm assuming a floppy controller
    80 column card and a serial card ??

    oh..and the cpu = G65SC02P-1
    rgds
    VS

    - - - Updated - - -

    So ..with all cards pulled and booted with just the mainboard ..
    Id expect a square block flashing cursor ?
    I got this instead (see photo)
    and any attempt to write a simple 2 line program in basic and run it ...results in that screen full of EEEs ..
    Something obviously not right here ..
    failed rom perhaps ?
    In fact typing ...anything..
    for example just hitting the '1' key and pressing return ..causes the screen to fill up with EEEEEEEEEs ..just like the earlier photo..
    I feel well ripped off unless there is an easy fix.
    doh!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0001.jpg   DSCF0146.jpg   DSCF0147.jpg   DSCF0148.jpg   DSCF0004.jpg  

    Last edited by ViperSan; 10th November 2017 at 00:53.

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    Hmm, the good news:
    A 65c02 almost certainly suggests a IIe enhanced - good
    64k 80 col card, so you have the full 128k too - nice
    That card in slot 2 looks like some kind of serial interface which will make using ADTPro for software transfer much quicker
    And indeed a later Disk II card

    So what's going on with your 'new'computer - from latest description maybe more than a dud floppy or two...
    My best guess is either a bad C71 cap (hopefully) or maybe a bad AY3600 keyboard controller (hopefully not, or maybe a poor connection with it's socket?)

    I've attached that repair guide in case it proved useful.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Charlie; 10th November 2017 at 04:25.
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    Well Charlie ..
    I made contact with the vendor ..who has good feedback ..and has sold a few Apples ..
    He is currently on the case ..and we discussed it by phone.
    He understands I dont want to just return it ..if it can be fixed.
    ..so he is currently sourcing a replacement main board ..which he will trust me to fit ..assuming he can get it.
    It will be sent to my address If/When he has it ..and I will fit it ..
    So ..there IS hope ..
    But if all else fails he will arrange collection ..and a full refund.
    I'll keep this thread updated with any developments.
    rgds
    VS

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    Ooo, if he's looking for a replacement main board for it (assuming he doesn't want the current one back) present hassle could result in a useful ending to this story - it's nice to have a ready supply of spares.
    Last edited by Charlie; 10th November 2017 at 12:26.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    Ooo, if he's looking for a replacement main board for it (assuming he doesn't want the current one back) present hassle could result in a useful ending to this story - it's nice to have a ready supply of spares.
    He may want the faulty one back Charlie ...but I suppose I could always make him an offer ??
    lol

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