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  • Retr0bright Support Thread

    Hi all,

    Merlin suggested I should make a thread of this to help anybody who may be having issues with Retr0brite.

    I am using,

    12% Peroxide from Sallys
    TAED from Merlin, but have tried Vanish Oxy and Asdas Own
    and a UV bulb from maplins (product code L31AF)

    At the moment, I am just testing this out on the keys from my C128 and have poured & covered the keys with peroxide and about 1/2 spoon of TAED. I was expecting a little bit of a reaction but again the granules just sat in the bottom of my bowl. I gave it a stir and the solution went a bit cloudy but then settled clear. I guess initially I am not sure what to expect when the TAED and peroxide is mixed, but I am not seeing bubbling, hissing, sparks, smells or anything of that ilk.

    It could be that I am impatient?!?
    Computers: Plus/4 x3, C16, C64 x9, C64C x3, C64 Aldi, C64GS, C128 x3, C128D, C128CR!, SX64, Amiga 1200 - 8Mb GVP030 & 8GB CF, Stock 1200, Amiga 500, CD32 x2
    Peripherals:1541, 1541-II, 1570, 1571, 1581, 1541 Ultimate-II, Easy Flash, Dual SID, 1084s x4, ZoomFloppy, SD2iEC, Micro SwinSID, C64 NIC

  • #2
    Re: Retr0brite

    @ Gaz

    If you want an instant reaction, you will get a molten lump of plastic at the end...

    OK, here's a few facts.

    TAED isn't soluble above 1.5 grammes per litre, so adding any more is a waste. If you are using an "Oxy" based laundry booster, don't add more than 1/2 teaspoonful per gallon, or it will foam up and make a mess...

    Peroxide solutions as low as 6% have been proven to work, they just take longer, that's all. You should be fine with 12%.

    TAED is a catalyst for the reaction and eventually it will work.

    Put the UV lamp as close as you can, without risking transferring heat to the parts you are treating. I normally put mine 12 to 18 inches (30 to 45cm in new money) from the parts.

    I suggest you look in this thread, as there's loads of good information that's been passed around on the subject in that thread; it's actually the second thread as the first one was 200 posts long!!
    VCF is one of the sites that has been helping develop the process further.

    link

    I hope that this helps. If I get no interruptions this weekend, I will finish writing the Retr0bright project up.

    Edit: We have been asked for a preferred recipe for Retr0bright, so here it is:-

    1 pint (568ml) Hydrogen Peroxide, 10 to 12% Strength (this is bought over the counter at 12% strength or you can dilute the 35% grade)

    1 Heaped Tablespoonful (approx. 45 grammes or 1/2 an ounce) of Xanthan Gum

    1 Teaspoonful of Glycerine

    Once this has been mixed together, to activate it, you add:-

    1/4 teaspoonful (about 4 grammes) of an 'Oxy' based laundry booster, e.g. Oxiclean, Vanish, etc.
    Last edited by Merlin; 18 January 2012, 07:31.
    The future's so Retr0bright, I gotta wear shades.....

    As rkauer said:-
    "Retro computers seems like an orgasm: it is always better to have a real one than fake it".

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

      For those who don't know what we are on about, Retr0brite is a nickname that we coined for a process that can reverse yellowing of plastics.

      Here's a catch-up on what has been discovered, this was taken from VCF and was written by yours truly. Props to AMike and Luzypher at a1k.org, rkauer, tonyyeb and others at EAB and the guys over at VCF for their help with the experiments; this has truly been a global effort and I am proud that it's in the public domain.

      The original thread is over 200 posts long now and getting to be a heavy read for some, so Lorne and I thought it was best that we start a new thread here, with a "Story So Far" summary, before we start more experiments.

      So, what has been discovered and learned so far?

      1. We have learned that a magic concoction has been created that can reverse the years of yellowing of plastics, caused by the brominated flame retardants (which were added to the plastic when it was a masterbatch) migrating to the surface of the plastic and attracting oxygen molecules which become attached by a co-ordinate bond.

      2. Bromine molecules are susceptible to ultra-violet light, in that chemical bonds involving bromine molecules can become destabilised if irradiated by UV light. This is what we are exploiting to remove the oxygen molecule from the brominated flame retardant.

      3. The yellowing can be reversed to a degree by immersing parts in hydrogen peroxide or "Oxy" on their own, however, on their own they don't do that much; what is needed is a chemical called TAED (tetra acetyl ethylene diamine), which is a chemical found in the "Oxy" type laundry boosters. Why is this useful? It's useful because it catalyses perborates and percarbonates in the "Oxy" to produce peroxides; it can also catalyse hydrogen peroxide, which is exactly what we want. This is what makes the mixture much more potent.

      4. The optimum mixture and conditions for reversing yellowing of plastics seems to be the following:-

      A) Hydrogen peroxide solution, the strongest you can lay hands on;
      B) UV light, either as sunlight or a UV lamp;
      C) Approx 1/4 teaspoonful per gallon of "Oxy" laundry booster.

      Parts immersed in this mixture will have the yellowing reversed in six to eight hours on average. Severe yellowing may take longer but it will only be a matter of a day or two. The mixture once made will last about four days before all of the peroxide is spent.

      5. A more recent development is that the mixture can be made into a gel. Initial tests with Xanthan Gum added to the original mixture have shown that it can be made into a thicker material which can be brushed onto surfaces. This mixture foams up but still removes the yellowing when put under UV light, and can remove yellowing in four to six hours. This method also drastically cuts down on the amount of liquid required and means large areas can be treated at a relatively low cost. Other thickeners such as corn starch, hydroxy ethyl cellulose, wallpaper paste, latex or similar inert thickener may also work, however, tests are in the early stages, feel free to try some of these and report back if they work.

      6. Recent tests by Lorne have shown that powdered hair bleach and hydrogen peroxide solution can give a similar effect to the original "Oxy" mixture, however, there may be side effects associated with using this material; early tests have seen adverse effects on paint and stickers may also be affected by this product. The original "Oxy" mixture does not affect paint or stickers, unless the stickers are held on with a water based glue or are paper stickers.

      7. If you are planning to do this in a hot climate, please be aware that this mixture will heat up during the day. Lorne is in Arizona and found that temperatures in excess of 100F (38C) and beyond were encountered, which caused some warping and distortion of large pieces. If this is the case where you live, always add the component to a cold mixture and check the temperature during the day.

      We will add to this original post in the thread as we learn more. If you wish to read the original Part 1 thread, it's here:-

      link

      Does it work? Hell yeah!! Here's a picture of a Commodore 64 case that I treated in eight hours. I only treated half of the case as a demonstration of how bad a case could be and yet it could still be restored.

      [attachment=0:1chzak9t]after eight hours.jpg[/attachment:1chzak9t]

      Cheers

      Merlin
      Attached Files
      The future's so Retr0bright, I gotta wear shades.....

      As rkauer said:-
      "Retro computers seems like an orgasm: it is always better to have a real one than fake it".

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

        That looks terrible, the retrobrite has turned half of it all brown and yukky...
















        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

          /Merlin glares at THB......
          The future's so Retr0bright, I gotta wear shades.....

          As rkauer said:-
          "Retro computers seems like an orgasm: it is always better to have a real one than fake it".

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

            That case is a great illustration of how effective the process really is.

            I was going to ask if you had managed to write the article about the Retr0brite process for the CA Wiki? But instead I think you have covered everything pretty well in the post above. So are you OK if I use the information in that post to create an article in the Wiki about it.

            Only additional info I will need is who to credit alongside your self for inventing the process?
            Coming soon - ..
            =====================================
            C= Amiga: A4000T/PPC/060, | A1200 x2 | A600 x2 | A500 & Plus x6 | CD32
            Atari:
            520 STFM | 4160 STE | 2600 Woody || Nintendo: Wii | GCN | N64 + Everdrive | SNES + Everdrive | SNES Mini | GB | GBA | DS-XL
            Sega
            : Dreamcast | Megadrive + Everdrive || Microsoft: Xbox x2 | Xbox 360 Slim 250GB || Sony: PSX | PS2 | PS2slim | PS3 slim | PSP x2 | Vita

            PC:
            i7 4GHz, 32GB Ram, GTX 970, SSD | + many other PCs and Laptops ||Tablet: Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 ||
            Phone: Samsung S20 5G
            Retro Handhelds: Retroid Pocket 2 | Anbernic RG351P

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

              Did you confuse that old case with a digestive?
              It must have been a bugger to dip that in your tea by accident.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

                @Merlicious

                dont forget to tell them about the danger of the Clorinated approach that we spoke about my friend.
                Flux Mastah' Zee
                50 L337 1'M W1R3FR4M3

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

                  @Merlin, your last linky is broken chap.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

                    Link above now fixed.

                    @ Harrison

                    Here is a link to the thread over at EAB, where more experiments were carried out. There is quite a lot of scientific explanation and pictures in all of these threads, which Zetr0 and I intend to pull together to make the definitive PDF document of all of this fine work. The C64 pictures at two, four six and eight hours from my experiments are posted in the EAB thread.

                    I will do a full write up this weekend, as would like to tidy this up a bit. Can you access the links over at EAB? If you need more pictures, check the threads linked above or at EAB, or let me know and I can send you some.

                    I wouldn't like to claim all of the credit for this, as the original idea of using peroxide was down to AMike and Luzypher at a1k.org (Germany); Kristan95 (California, USA) brought the idea to EAB, where Zetr0 (UK) rkauer (Brazil) and myself (UK) figured out what was really going on in scientific terms. Magno Boots (UK) had discovered that parts soaked in a solution of "Oxy" were also cleaned up. I discovered that TAED was the 'magic bullet' in the "Oxy" that was required to make the magic happen quicker, which along with hydrogen peroxide and UV light, turned out to be the required conditions; I can only claim the credit for putting the jigsaw together. Tonyyeb (UK) and Magno Boots at EAB, along with Lorne (USA, Arizona) & Tezza (New Zealand) from Vintage Computer Forums helped with experiments. Props and respect to all concerned for helping to bring a brainchild to life and proving that some things aren't impossible.

                    All in all, a true global team effort; I can only take the credit for developing the liquid into a gel version.

                    I am proud that we have managed to make this possible and release it into the public domain.
                    The future's so Retr0bright, I gotta wear shades.....

                    As rkauer said:-
                    "Retro computers seems like an orgasm: it is always better to have a real one than fake it".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

                      I can vouch that this process really does work! I did my A600's keys and they came out whiter than white!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

                        @Merlin

                        OK mate. I will wait until next week before I start to add the information into the Wiki. And you are welcome to join the CA Wiki so you can add to and edit the entry once it has been started.
                        Coming soon - ..
                        =====================================
                        C= Amiga: A4000T/PPC/060, | A1200 x2 | A600 x2 | A500 & Plus x6 | CD32
                        Atari:
                        520 STFM | 4160 STE | 2600 Woody || Nintendo: Wii | GCN | N64 + Everdrive | SNES + Everdrive | SNES Mini | GB | GBA | DS-XL
                        Sega
                        : Dreamcast | Megadrive + Everdrive || Microsoft: Xbox x2 | Xbox 360 Slim 250GB || Sony: PSX | PS2 | PS2slim | PS3 slim | PSP x2 | Vita

                        PC:
                        i7 4GHz, 32GB Ram, GTX 970, SSD | + many other PCs and Laptops ||Tablet: Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 ||
                        Phone: Samsung S20 5G
                        Retro Handhelds: Retroid Pocket 2 | Anbernic RG351P

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

                          sob... * sob*.....

                          Merlin forgot to mention the 30 hours of phone calls and bouncing the ideas off me for fun....

                          sob... * sob*.....

                          I ma loved no longer.
                          Flux Mastah' Zee
                          50 L337 1'M W1R3FR4M3

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

                            @tonyyeb

                            Just wondered what % peroxide you used and how long you waited before your whiter than white keys?

                            My keys will have been going 24 hours, I checked them last night around 12 hours ago and they didnt seem to have changed any.
                            Computers: Plus/4 x3, C16, C64 x9, C64C x3, C64 Aldi, C64GS, C128 x3, C128D, C128CR!, SX64, Amiga 1200 - 8Mb GVP030 & 8GB CF, Stock 1200, Amiga 500, CD32 x2
                            Peripherals:1541, 1541-II, 1570, 1571, 1581, 1541 Ultimate-II, Easy Flash, Dual SID, 1084s x4, ZoomFloppy, SD2iEC, Micro SwinSID, C64 NIC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Retr0brite Support Thread

                              @gazuk

                              30% I think and it took only 8 hours with a UV bulb.

                              Comment

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