Secondary 'harddisk' solution for A600 - SD+IDE splitter.

Right now, I have a CF card in IDE as the main harddisk. I need to have some sort of card as secondary harddisk. This will function as a backup unit, and I must be able to eject the card and put it in my laptop without having to power off or reboot my A600 - mount/dismount to do it is okay though. (I will make a slot in the case where the card sticks out.)

So, basically the usual 'file transfer solution'. :) PCMCIA is occupied, or I would have used that.

But I'm a bit unsure which solutions have drivers/software to allow mount/unmount while power is on, and which IDE splitters allow more than 1 unit without the usual master/slave corruption.


I have an IDE-Fix '97 I bought many years ago, but of course the disk+manual is lost. :( Will that work, in port 1? Do I need the software?

Or will an SD-IDE adapter work, corruption-free, on a two-harddisk cable without the IDE-Fix, if I make set them as master+slave? I seem to remember all kinds of trouble doing that, but...


Hope you get what I'm after, suggest something that does the above and I'll make/buy that solution!

[Edit: looking at item #280423051175 on EvilBay... doesn't seem to have a master/slave jumper. Feedback if you think this will work. Mods: remove the number if it's against policy.]

Forgive me if I'm wrong... but doesn't the IDE controller sets the NO factor of unmounting when powered on?
I mean, whatever adapter you might have or exist (CF, SD, MS, etc) that redirects to IDE port doesn't matter since the IDE protocol doesn't accept hot-swap operation. That would corrupt your data (if not destroying your controller).

Although I'm not 100% sure, I guess your only solution (since you occupy as you said the PCMCIA interface) is to use an CF --> USB adapter inside your Amiga mounted on a Subway. (As our fellow Amibayer Phipscube perfectly implemented on his A1200)

I wish to keep the software needed to mount to a minimum. The solution must work on 68000. A USB Stack running is way overkill, not mention that an A603 + Subway will not fit and is expensive.

IDE-Fix '97 de facto allows optionally mounting the drive in Port 1 after boot. It is unknown but likely (as I understand the port is EIDE) it will allow unmounting also...

I was hoping someone had solved this. Step in and say if you've done so - certainly with the single PCMCIA slot in A600 this is a common problem, whether you want fastram, internet, or a card in your single slot. So someone should have made a solution to this 'transfer files while still having something else in PCMCIA before, I mean.

But I will try to figure out a solution then.

Sorry but a hot swappable PATA IDE interface just can't be done. The technology isnt designed for it and you'd likely risk fatally damaging your hardware.

What is the difference between a hot-swap and a 'mount/dismount+take out SD card from EIDE port'?

Note that the SD-IDE adapter is active, not passive like CF adapters, so the (E)IDE port will not lose connection to the SD-controller. Also the SD-IDE adapter supports hot-swap (presumably on PC, which is different). But if this difference (detection on insert) is made manually, won't the OS nicely mount the inserted card?

Hot swap means physically removing or inserting a piece of hardware such as a CF card, hard drive or any other device

Mount/inmount means to enable/disable a software configuration or 'rules' that define certain parmaeters such as device driver or tracks per disk or what file system to use, etc.

You can't do what you are attempting to do on the simple IDE bus of the A600 ... sorry but if you try, you'll make lots of magic black smoke mixed with copious amounts of cuss words.

EIDE de facto allows hot-swap even of harddisks directly connected to the bus. The SD card, unlike all other drives, is not connected to the bus.

The SD-IDE adapter is never removed physically from the black smoke bus. The SD-IDE adapter supports hot-swap of the SD card. The SD-IDE adapter unlike the passive CF-IDE adapter has no direct connection from card to bus. The SD card has no controller inside like the ones inside harddisks and CF cards.

Shouldn't that make the black smoke IDE bus quite safe?

The connection and the nature of the technology. It's a little beyond my knowledge but I'll do my best to explain...

Put simply, SD cards and their ports are designed by nature to expect regular connection and disconnection while the system is still functioning. Theyre more like floppies than hard drives in that the drive stays connected but the part holding the data is ejected. Hotswap technology is designed so that it can handle being yanked from a system without getting damaged, and devices that take them are designed with methods of coping with the device being removed and the subsequent power spikes. Unplugging a device from a powered system usually requires a software communique to power down the device without turning off the whole machine too.


PATA drives are designed to stay put, theyre a much simpler technology from a time when portability wasn't as much a priority as it is today and they cant be disconnected from a system without the power being cut from them first, in a safe way that doesnt damage the rest of the system. The only way to do this for PATA drives is to shut the whole machine down. Their controllers simply arent built to handle being yanked from a powered connection.


Is it possible to build something for them to compensate? Perhaps but thats why SATA was developed...

SATA was developed to replace PATA drives and SATA is hot swappable. Nobody bothered making anything to help PATA become hot swappable because the technology was obsoleted and improved upon.


It's the best I can put it without getting out schematics and possibly doing half of an electricians course while I'm at it. If you want to know more I'd suggest you read up on the technologies.

---------- Post added at 16:58 ---------- Previous post was at 16:54 ----------

And yea.. what the guys above put... lol :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmiNeo

Hotswap technology is designed so that it can handle being yanked from a system without getting damaged, and devices that take them are designed with methods of coping with the device being removed and the subsequent power spikes.

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And you're saying the SD-IDE adapter branded as hot-swappable will kindly pass on the huge power spikes coming off the SD card socket to the EIDE bus, when the "floppy is ejected"?

What does the "hot-swappable" mean on the SD-IDE adapter? Can it, or can it not handle the electrical spike part of ejecting the SD card?

How does my PCMCIA SD-Adapter handle the spikes when I eject/insert a card to that?

Do you own a Windows machine? Do you insert and remove USB devices or memory cards without first using the "Safely Remove Hardware" feature?

Ever mess up a card because you forgot?

The miggy's IDE interface does NOT support hot swapping. It does NOT support auto-mounting or dis-mounting of media cards when it is switched on. Your SD-IDE interface may do but the miggy IDE does not.

To do what you are attempting to do can and does invite disaster to both the media and the miggy itself. The design of IDE interface is 15 years out of date - can we make it any clearer to you????

PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK
Don't come running to us when it all goes *BANG* on you!