360 Red rings and numerous other faults...

Hey guys, I understand this is mostly for amiga and retro computer problems but I was curious if there was anyone here with much experience repairing broken 360s?

Due to my techie status and tinkering nature, I've been pondering the various faults with these systems and a lot of them seem to go pretty cheap considering they may be repairable in the right hands... Given the experience in the future, I may even consider making a 360 tower for the boards with pr0ns! :lol:

Does anyone have any experience or insight as to what faults are easiest and most difficult to fix and possible locations of guides?

Hi there,
If you are not good in electronic you should forget about repairs at home.

http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/topi...l-an-xbox-360/

http://clips.tojsiab.com/Xbox-360-RR...o6awjbWZw.html

I'm perfectly confident around electronics. I'm not an electrician but I've been into computers for most of my life and have been a professionally certified IT technician for close to 4 years now, building and repairing systems, supporting users and more recently network setup / admin. Just starting to get into PCBs and soldering and the like more seriously these days. Having made a few mistakes with some delicate albeit aged SMD components, I've successfully replaced PCB parts and repaired plenty of consoles over the last few years. Just nothing from the 360s family atall just yet. :thumbsup:

My passion for the retro led me to Amibay about 6 months ago...

Cheers for the links :)

PS. Dont sound so negetive, ;)

Go for it... a friend of mine is doing just that..picks up 360's that have the RROD for not much money, fixes them with readily available parts from that "place we don't like to mention" and then sells them on.....i am currently using one of his resurrected machines and have had no sleep for the last 6 days because i am addicted to Halo Reach :)

be careful, a lot of RROD machines on ebay have already been repaired (i.e destroyed)

the RROD is the same fault as the PS3 YLOD (cheep ass solder), both repairable in the same way, although these repairs seem to last between 3 and 12 months

Ive done some 360 repairs before, just the RROD though, not E74 or anything else. I always bought ones that had not been opened before as some muppet would have done a hash job, reducing my chance of repairing it.

Also, if you are using eBay to buy faulty ones, check the sellers feedback for RROD fix kit purchases, just in case they are telling you a pork pie ;) Also, get the manufacturing date off the back, if its got the RROD and its under 3 years old then MS will repair it under warranty.

RROD repairs are straight forward enough to do, Im not sure about other stuff as Ive never done it. Usually, one of the fix kits you get come with a complete guide.

I only bought a few 360s to see if I could do it but I wouldnt say its worth doing it to make money though. It takes a lot of time and you never know which 360 will last for ages and which will die again tomorrow.

i have had 7 xbox 360s 4 of witch had RROD 1 elite and 3 premiums the 3 i still have havent died yet. in my experience its without a doubt overheating that kills them. the X clamp fix only gives them a few more months of life then they go again.

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Originally Posted by Tajmaster

Ive done some 360 repairs before, just the RROD though, not E74 or anything else. I always bought ones that had not been opened before as some muppet would have done a hash job, reducing my chance of repairing it.

Also, if you are using eBay to buy faulty ones, check the sellers feedback for RROD fix kit purchases, just in case they are telling you a pork pie ;) Also, get the manufacturing date off the back, if its got the RROD and its under 3 years old then MS will repair it under warranty.

RROD repairs are straight forward enough to do, Im not sure about other stuff as Ive never done it. Usually, one of the fix kits you get come with a complete guide.

I only bought a few 360s to see if I could do it but I wouldnt say its worth doing it to make money though. It takes a lot of time and you never know which 360 will last for ages and which will die again tomorrow.

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Same for me, I'm not trying to make a profit of it. Its more about curiosity and reviving something people would otherwise give up on. Plus if i can get a usable 360 out of it aswell wheres the harm eh? ;) :D


And yeah... this wouldnt be happening if they hadnt banned lead solder in consumer electronics... Grrrrr!

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Originally Posted by baddmint666

i have had 7 xbox 360s 4 of witch had RROD 1 elite and 3 premiums the 3 i still have havent died yet. in my experience its without a doubt overheating that kills them. the X clamp fix only gives them a few more months of life then they go again.

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If you do the X-Clamp fix and then the 12v fan mod it will give them a lot longer life. I have one repair that has lasted almost a year now and still going strong. Just thought I would let you know in case you weren't aware of the fan mod. But even with the fan mod there is no guarantee that it won't happen again in the future.

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Originally Posted by Bootay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baddmint666

i have had 7 xbox 360s 4 of witch had RROD 1 elite and 3 premiums the 3 i still have havent died yet. in my experience its without a doubt overheating that kills them. the X clamp fix only gives them a few more months of life then they go again.

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If you do the X-Clamp fix and then the 12v fan mod it will give them a lot longer life. I have one repair that has lasted almost a year now and still going strong. Just thought I would let you know in case you weren't aware of the fan mod. But even with the fan mod there is no guarantee that it won't happen again in the future.

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What is the fan mod??

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Originally Posted by Bootay

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Originally Posted by baddmint666

i have had 7 xbox 360s 4 of witch had RROD 1 elite and 3 premiums the 3 i still have havent died yet. in my experience its without a doubt overheating that kills them. the X clamp fix only gives them a few more months of life then they go again.

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If you do the X-Clamp fix and then the 12v fan mod it will give them a lot longer life. I have one repair that has lasted almost a year now and still going strong. Just thought I would let you know in case you weren't aware of the fan mod. But even with the fan mod there is no guarantee that it won't happen again in the future.

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Guess I'll just have to be uBER L33T about it...

I personally would opt for a rear cooler. I got a "King Cooler" for my early 2006 Core model and it's never RRoD'd. :)

Ah yea, used to have one of the Nyko exhause blower thingies when i had my early model years back. Noisly little bugger...

Might consider installing new fans or something though... surely there are more efficient cooling methods than a brick on the side and an exhaust tube running from a fanless heatsink?

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Originally Posted by Bootay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baddmint666

i have had 7 xbox 360s 4 of witch had RROD 1 elite and 3 premiums the 3 i still have havent died yet. in my experience its without a doubt overheating that kills them. the X clamp fix only gives them a few more months of life then they go again.

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If you do the X-Clamp fix and then the 12v fan mod it will give them a lot longer life. I have one repair that has lasted almost a year now and still going strong. Just thought I would let you know in case you weren't aware of the fan mod. But even with the fan mod there is no guarantee that it won't happen again in the future.

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thanks for the advice dude.
mabie adding a liquid cooling system may add a few more months on that :lol:
wonder if anyones tried it

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Originally Posted by baddmint666

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Originally Posted by Bootay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baddmint666

i have had 7 xbox 360s 4 of witch had RROD 1 elite and 3 premiums the 3 i still have havent died yet. in my experience its without a doubt overheating that kills them. the X clamp fix only gives them a few more months of life then they go again.

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If you do the X-Clamp fix and then the 12v fan mod it will give them a lot longer life. I have one repair that has lasted almost a year now and still going strong. Just thought I would let you know in case you weren't aware of the fan mod. But even with the fan mod there is no guarantee that it won't happen again in the future.

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thanks for the advice dude.
mabie adding a liquid cooling system may add a few more months on that :lol:
wonder if anyones tried it

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My thoughts exactly... The cooling system on them as standard is extremely rubbish. They have a tripple core 3GHz processor passively cooled by a heatsink with no fan on it...:nuts:
Unfortunately my funding is very limited right now but I'd like to try and look into perhaps modding the cooling somehow.

Has anyone ever measured the dimensions of an X-clamp and compared it to the holes dimensions on a standard motherboard with a 754 cooler? lol.

---------- Post added 8th February 2011 at 00:59 ---------- Previous post was 7th February 2011 at 23:45 ----------

Hmm... It is apprently most down to unequal preassure exerted on the CPU and GPU (GPU being the most commonly affected). As the system repeatedly heats and cools the unequal preassure stresses the solder connections beneath the CPU or GPU and they lose contact with the motherboard over time...

If this is the case, keeping it cooler is only half of the problem... Straightening out the board is the first thing that needs to be sorted and can presumably be done with a bunch of washers and some screws to replace the x-clamps... Gonna need to get a closer look at the board and the way it sits into the casing first...

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Originally Posted by Tajmaster

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Originally Posted by Bootay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baddmint666

i have had 7 xbox 360s 4 of witch had RROD 1 elite and 3 premiums the 3 i still have havent died yet. in my experience its without a doubt overheating that kills them. the X clamp fix only gives them a few more months of life then they go again.

---

If you do the X-Clamp fix and then the 12v fan mod it will give them a lot longer life. I have one repair that has lasted almost a year now and still going strong. Just thought I would let you know in case you weren't aware of the fan mod. But even with the fan mod there is no guarantee that it won't happen again in the future.

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What is the fan mod??

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I can't throw you a link right now because I am at work and most game related sites are blocked. But the fan mod involved splicing one of the fan wires into the SATA wire to make the fans 12v. This makes them spin a lot faster pushing all of the heat out...but it does cause the 360 to be louder. Not as loud as those 3rd party exhausts though.

I also have tried the Nyko one and it really didn't seem to help me. All that noise and I still got RRoD with it. I am planning on selling it I think.

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Originally Posted by Bootay

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Originally Posted by Tajmaster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bootay

If you do the X-Clamp fix and then the 12v fan mod it will give them a lot longer life. I have one repair that has lasted almost a year now and still going strong. Just thought I would let you know in case you weren't aware of the fan mod. But even with the fan mod there is no guarantee that it won't happen again in the future.

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What is the fan mod??

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I can't throw you a link right now because I am at work and most game related sites are blocked. But the fan mod involved splicing one of the fan wires into the SATA wire to make the fans 12v. This makes them spin a lot faster pushing all of the heat out...but it does cause the 360 to be louder. Not as loud as those 3rd party exhausts though.

I also have tried the Nyko one and it really didn't seem to help me. All that noise and I still got RRoD with it. I am planning on selling it I think.

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Yeah I dont think they help all that much. If you think about it, sticking fans infront of fans is only going to blow the air the fans behind them have already pushed out faster... If anything theyre only cooling the hair around the internal fans...

Best solution is to have more efficient fans internally creating a more powerful vacuum inside the shroud... It also wouldnt hurt if the heatsinks had fans on too... Might be awkward to impliment though...

Stachu100 isn't being negative, he's saying it how it is. The only way to properly repair a RROD or a YLOD is to use IR to remove the BGA chips and re-ball them. All these online "quick fixes" are ticking time bombs and its pot luck as to whether you get days, weeks months (and very very rarely) a year out of them. MY old phattie PS3 (BC so played PS2 games too, grrr ) YLOD and I tried all the tricks which kept it going on and off for a few months but it got to a point where it would break down after a week tops. The last time I added spacers to the clamps and plumped a pile of flux down the side of each of the GFX and Cell chips, did the usual heat gun trick, and it worked again, but then put it away (still working so I didn't feel so bad) and bought a Slim PS3.

Unless you can afford an IR station I wouldn't get into the tricky game of "Repairing" 360's or PS3's,

The problems are that Microsoft and (to a lesser extent) Sony didn't know how to deal with lead fee solder, so their mainboards didn't have the correct spacings to allow for the amount of flex you get in a board with heating and cooling for lead free solder. Its much more rigid than leaded solder. The processes are getting better over time though.

If, however, your after buying a cheap 360 or PS3 all gone duff and want to just have a go for a laugh, then yeah, its quite fun taking apart and blowing heat on the chips, trying clamps and fans etc, just don't get too dishartened if the thing keep on dying on you. Its especially bad when in the middle of a good game like Uncharted when it goes teets up!

On a side note, I wish Sony would pull their fingers out and release PS2 compatibility for Slim PS3's. I really miss slotting in my old PS2 games and having a blast. I tend to slot one in now and then after a firmware update on the slim... just incase, maybe one day.

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Originally Posted by Phipscube

Stachu100 isn't being negative, he's saying it how it is. The only way to properly repair a RROD or a YLOD is to use IR to remove the BGA chips and re-ball them. All these online "quick fixes" are ticking time bombs and its pot luck as to whether you get days, weeks months (and very very rarely) a year out of them. MY old phattie PS3 (BC so played PS2 games too, grrr ) YLOD and I tried all the tricks which kept it going on and off for a few months but it got to a point where it would break down after a week tops. The last time I added spacers to the clamps and plumped a pile of flux down the side of each of the GFX and Cell chips, did the usual heat gun trick, and it worked again, but then put it away (still working so I didn't feel so bad) and bought a Slim PS3.

Unless you can afford an IR station I wouldn't get into the tricky game of "Repairing" 360's or PS3's,

The problems are that Microsoft and (to a lesser extent) Sony didn't know how to deal with lead fee solder, so their mainboards didn't have the correct spacings to allow for the amount of flex you get in a board with heating and cooling for lead free solder. Its much more rigid than leaded solder. The processes are getting better over time though.

If, however, your after buying a cheap 360 or PS3 all gone duff and want to just have a go for a laugh, then yeah, its quite fun taking apart and blowing heat on the chips, trying clamps and fans etc, just don't get too dishartened if the thing keep on dying on you. Its especially bad when in the middle of a good game like Uncharted when it goes teets up!

On a side note, I wish Sony would pull their fingers out and release PS2 compatibility for Slim PS3's. I really miss slotting in my old PS2 games and having a blast. I tend to slot one in now and then after a firmware update on the slim... just incase, maybe one day.

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I understand where hes coming from but slamming a dose of negative reality down before anyone begins takes the fun out of exploring it.
Well its only for myself to pot around and learn from anyway. Maybe I'll get lucky and get a 360 working again for a year.

As for the PS3s PS2 compatability, don't get your hopes up. They had extra hardware in the PS3 60GB supporting PS2 caompatability which they removed to make production cheaper... Thats why the PS2 compatability went away, and unless theres a new revision in the future (who knows the speed new models keep coming out these days) its unlikely. I wouldnt out it past them though maybe toward the end of the consoles life to release one with it re-added to extend its life on the run up to the next gen.

Aye Neo mate, a big nice chunk! :( there has been rumblings for the past few years though that Sony have been beavering away on a complete software emulator for PS2 on PS3. My own PS3 ran partly on software as the EE was missing, but it had drawbacks, 85% compat was acheivable, but at least most the games I wanted to play worked. I think Sony could release a full software emulator at some point but yeah, realistically it will probably appear on the PS4 (and then they'll likely drop PS3 back compat DOH!)

Anyway, back on topic. Get an el cheapo RROD 360 and have a blast mate, Just wanted you to know that its really not possible to outright fix them without IR and a re-balling. As long as you know that then you wont be too disappointed. But who knows, you might get lucky and have a years worth of fun for nearly naff 'ole! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Phipscube

Aye Neo mate, a big nice chunk! :( there has been rumblings for the past few years though that Sony have been beavering away on a complete software emulator for PS2 on PS3. My own PS3 ran partly on software as the EE was missing, but it had drawbacks, 85% compat was acheivable, but at least most the games I wanted to play worked. I think Sony could release a full software emulator at some point but yeah, realistically it will probably appear on the PS4 (and then they'll likely drop PS3 back compat DOH!)

Anyway, back on topic. Get an el cheapo RROD 360 and have a blast mate, Just wanted you to know that its really not possible to outright fix them without IR and a re-balling. As long as you know that then you wont be too disappointed. But who knows, you might get lucky and have a years worth of fun for nearly naff 'ole! :thumbsup:

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Yep agreed...and I tell everyone before I fix theirs to try Microsoft first and if they already did and they said no or want to charge $150, I will fix it but warn them that the fix is not permanent. Could break tomorrow, could break 2 months from now...could be a year...but eventually it probably will break again. This is what I tell everyone. I only charge people $20 for my time unlike the scammers on craigslist charging $75+. It costs $5 in parts to fix and then $15 for my time. If it breaks again within the month I will redo it for free...otherwise it will be another $20.

And I do not advertise because I am not trying to make money or even do this often. Just friends and friends of friends mostly...

Hmm.. a thought occurs...

Okay we know a CPUs comfortable operational temp is somwhere between 30 and 60C (lower end of the scale being better), but this is when they are powered and operational and the heat is being generated through the internal circuit... Now does anyone have any idea how much heat a CPU can stand when its not powered? I was wondering if it may be possible to use hot air to heat the chip to such an extent as to reform the solder beneath it while it was powered off? (Thus possibly reconnecting any lifted joints...)

Both solder and chips usually solder around 220 to 250°C. So chips must support this temperature for at least a few minutes when powered off.

Hmm, so I could safely heat the chip up to about 250c ?

For a few seconds, yes.

Got it. Thanks! If all else fails with the fix I may give that a shot. :thumbsup:

I think my PSU is on the blink too... Anyone know if the Elite works with the older 205W PSUs? Do they work like PC PSUs where more is fine or is it potentially harmful with 360s somehow??? The 205Ws are easier to get hold of it seems, so if theyre fine I'll grab one of those...

the 360 psus changed from model to model, different connectors and voltages

the best way to make a board level and reflow the solder?

place the stripped board on top of 3 (yes 3!) aluminium foil balls on a baking tray, place in a pre heated gas mk 7 oven and baked for 8 mins.
i know it sounds like a joke but it's not! the 3 balls will allow the board to level itself perfectly and reflow the solder to make the correct connections in the correct position. remember to remove the battery before doing this with a PS3 (bloody stupid place to put a battery that WILL expire)


i have no idea why some people make this job so difficult, full strip, bake and rebuild takes about 25mins.

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Originally Posted by AmiNeo

I think my PSU is on the blink too... Anyone know if the Elite works with the older 205W PSUs? Do they work like PC PSUs where more is fine or is it potentially harmful with 360s somehow??? The 205Ws are easier to get hold of it seems, so if theyre fine I'll grab one of those...

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203W PSUs work on all "original" XBox 360s (ie not the new slim model).

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Originally Posted by Tajmaster

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Originally Posted by AmiNeo

I think my PSU is on the blink too... Anyone know if the Elite works with the older 205W PSUs? Do they work like PC PSUs where more is fine or is it potentially harmful with 360s somehow??? The 205Ws are easier to get hold of it seems, so if theyre fine I'll grab one of those...

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203W PSUs work on all "original" XBox 360s (ie not the new slim model).

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are you sure? i have 3 or 4 psus here from original and elites, that physically will not plug in to each other

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Originally Posted by JuvUK

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Originally Posted by Tajmaster

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Originally Posted by AmiNeo

I think my PSU is on the blink too... Anyone know if the Elite works with the older 205W PSUs? Do they work like PC PSUs where more is fine or is it potentially harmful with 360s somehow??? The 205Ws are easier to get hold of it seems, so if theyre fine I'll grab one of those...

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203W PSUs work on all "original" XBox 360s (ie not the new slim model).

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are you sure? i have 3 or 4 psus here from original and elites, that physically will not plug in to each other

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Im pretty sure thats right Juv, I had a 203W PSU plugged into a Falcon based (usually uses 175W PSU) 360 for a while to test after I fixed it. Ill post here again later tonight after checking for certain this is the case but as you say, they dont physically fit if the PSU isnt designed for that model so no risk of blowing anything up AmiNeo!

And the red ringed 360 is repaired :thumbsup: ;)

Just checked a Falcon 360 with a 203W PSU - all working fine :thumbsup:

You have an elite with a 203W PSU? Sweet. Same as this one.


Just had her running all night after the repair... 10 hours straight, 5 or 6 hours on Halo 3, a few demos I downloaded, everything is solid! Not a hint of overheating anywhere. Let her cool off for an hour and back on again for another 2 hours... FLAWLESS! Made up :D

N00B RROD repairs are no match for the hands of a skilled technician ;)


:ninja:



And yeah, I matched up the ampers and volts against whats stated on the case and everythings a match... I guess she just wont draw the full 205W. :)

Cheers for the input guys! :thumbsup:

yes the only proper repair to 3rod or yellow light on PS3 is to re solder the GPU and this is an extremely difficult task to achieve.
You can heat and rehaet and x clamp all you like , the fact is that the solder fractures under the GPU because of excessive heat build up and because its lead free solder (2005 on by law on all electronics)

its take MS, Sony and other electrical suppliers until ohhh 2010 to get the hang of lead free solder. Sony has had major issues with cam corders , PS3 and other stuff. This combined with capacitors problems from the same era (2005-) means that most electrical items we hve bought since are dying each time we use them. in the case of capacitors the will fail with or without use.

All major electrical companies have had big problems, Dell refused to accept that there PCs were failing months after delivery and blamed customers for misuse.Later they had to accept the motherboards were failing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmiNeo

Hmm.. a thought occurs...

Okay we know a CPUs comfortable operational temp is somwhere between 30 and 60C (lower end of the scale being better), but this is when they are powered and operational and the heat is being generated through the internal circuit... Now does anyone have any idea how much heat a CPU can stand when its not powered? I was wondering if it may be possible to use hot air to heat the chip to such an extent as to reform the solder beneath it while it was powered off? (Thus possibly reconnecting any lifted joints...)

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That's exactly how I fix mine. Heat gun on GPU for a couple of seconds one the front and then a couple of seconds on the back. Replace X-Clamp with my own concoction of parts from Lowes and do the 12v fan mod. Of course there is no guarantee that it will last. :thumbsdown:

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Originally Posted by Bootay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmiNeo

Hmm.. a thought occurs...

Okay we know a CPUs comfortable operational temp is somwhere between 30 and 60C (lower end of the scale being better), but this is when they are powered and operational and the heat is being generated through the internal circuit... Now does anyone have any idea how much heat a CPU can stand when its not powered? I was wondering if it may be possible to use hot air to heat the chip to such an extent as to reform the solder beneath it while it was powered off? (Thus possibly reconnecting any lifted joints...)

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That's exactly how I fix mine. Heat gun on GPU for a couple of seconds one the front and then a couple of seconds on the back. Replace X-Clamp with my own concoction of parts from Lowes and do the 12v fan mod. Of course there is no guarantee that it will last. :thumbsdown:

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Perhaps not but what the hell. If its dead anyways you may aswell do it if you can rather than pay M$ :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by mjnurney

yes the only proper repair to 3rod or yellow light on PS3 is to re solder the GPU and this is an extremely difficult task to achieve.
You can heat and rehaet and x clamp all you like , the fact is that the solder fractures under the GPU because of excessive heat build up and because its lead free solder (2005 on by law on all electronics)

its take MS, Sony and other electrical suppliers until ohhh 2010 to get the hang of lead free solder. Sony has had major issues with cam corders , PS3 and other stuff. This combined with capacitors problems from the same era (2005-) means that most electrical items we hve bought since are dying each time we use them. in the case of capacitors the will fail with or without use.

All major electrical companies have had big problems, Dell refused to accept that there PCs were failing months after delivery and blamed customers for misuse.Later they had to accept the motherboards were failing...

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FYI I no longer have an X-clamp on it ;)

...Blaming customers for misuse... Thats just legendary failure on Dells part. Too stubborn to admit their stuff is at fault. Terrible for a name like theirs. Even MS caved and gave a 3 year RROD warranty eventually, with their reputation.

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Originally Posted by AmiNeo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjnurney

yes the only proper repair to 3rod or yellow light on PS3 is to re solder the GPU and this is an extremely difficult task to achieve.
You can heat and rehaet and x clamp all you like , the fact is that the solder fractures under the GPU because of excessive heat build up and because its lead free solder (2005 on by law on all electronics)

its take MS, Sony and other electrical suppliers until ohhh 2010 to get the hang of lead free solder. Sony has had major issues with cam corders , PS3 and other stuff. This combined with capacitors problems from the same era (2005-) means that most electrical items we hve bought since are dying each time we use them. in the case of capacitors the will fail with or without use.

All major electrical companies have had big problems, Dell refused to accept that there PCs were failing months after delivery and blamed customers for misuse.Later they had to accept the motherboards were failing...

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FYI I no longer have an X-clamp on it ;)

...Blaming customers for misuse... Thats just legendary failure on Dells part. Too stubborn to admit their stuff is at fault. Terrible for a name like theirs. Even MS caved and gave a 3 year RROD warranty eventually, with their reputation.

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unlike Sony who have told thier customers to go whistle

Lol, really? Hadn't heard that but then their hardware failure rate is well within acceptable standards compared to M$ Xbox 360 Fiasco :lol:

...Think it was something like under 3% for Sony vs 12% for M$ during the first year :lol:

Oh yeah! Has anyone seen the new Microsoft keyboard theyre bringing out for Microsoft OS? It has all the keys you could ever want! :lol:

I also have a theory that not every RROD 360 is caused through the solder going bad. While its the most likely cause, anyone who has seen them will know that the X-clamp design is a little flimsy at best too and it may sometimes just be a case of the heat sink simply not making very good contact with the GPU.

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Originally Posted by AmiNeo

Lol, really? Hadn't heard that but then their hardware failure rate is well within acceptable standards compared to M$ Xbox 360 Fiasco :lol:

...Think it was something like under 3% for Sony vs 12% for M$ during the first year :lol:

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It was something more like 1 in 3 Xbox 360's going RROD and 1 in 10 PS3's going YLOD by the time it was in full swing a few years ago. Sony got away with their failures becasue it didn't start happening until much later and to a lesser extent. The first years the PS3 had a rock solid rep. The Xbox 360's however were starting to RROD after less than a year and it was alot worse than with PS3.

Sony have made quite a spectacular dodge on the YLOD to be honest as the failure rate is above normal (just not a catastropic as RROD was). I'm wondering if at some point they will get slammed and my lovely old PS3 Phat (with PS2 back compat) can get a free re-balling :)

BTW Neo, is your Xbox 360 still going?

Neo: it is actually a combination of the 2. The X-Clamps allow the motherboard to flex causing the crappy solder to crack. Reflowing the solder will temporarily fix it. I replace the XClamps altogether with something that does not allow the motherboard to flex using some parts from Lowes, but even doing that is not a 100% fix. I have had some 360s last 6 months to a year, while others only worked for a few weeks to a few hours. I just fixed one for a guy and he came back 5 hours later with RRoD again...it's kind of a pain.

i bake the motherboards to get them back to being flat (have done this with ps3s as well)
then do the fixes, the oldest one i've done is now about 2 years, the newest one is about 3 months, haven't had any back yet (fingers crossed, not even the ps3s)

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Originally Posted by JuvUK

i bake the motherboards to get them back to being flat (have done this with ps3s as well)
then do the fixes, the oldest one i've done is now about 2 years, the newest one is about 3 months, haven't had any back yet (fingers crossed, not even the ps3s)

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What do you mean by "bake"?

by BAKE, i suppose you mean place in the oven? or preheat somehow?
the xbox motherboard buckles like hell when its warm, however i never did try a PS3,

i have heard of people putting xboxes in the oven for 20 mins....

its on youtube somewhere but it will kill the plastics and capacitors anyway

I have spent a lot of time (or did) getting the reballing gear and its just too much like hard work to be honest and i sold it all about a year ago.

yep bake in an oven gas mark 7 for 8 mins, make sure to stand the board on 3 (very important that you use 3) small balls of ali foil.

does it work?

flawlessly:)