Printable View
Hi to all
I'm thinking to buy the Kryoflux Personal Edition Advanced. Anyone have & use this adapter? It's recommended?
I want it to:
- Write images of my original & protected Amiga games
- Write IPF images to Amiga Floppys
Thanks
---------- Post added at 11:07 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------
Dear Admins/Mods,
Anyone can chage the title as "Kryoflux Personal Edition Advanced"?
Thanks
very interesting, pending a price point I would like one of these, perhaps even two.
I was interested, as I've got too much atari stuff to preserve, but I was reading about it on another forum (an atari forum). Seems that software for writting files is not fully developed. And file format to store raw data that has been obtained from kryflux is still in development (this doesn't mean that is non-functional, but it's in "draft" state).
Demo video writting back to a floppy an atari st image :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTloS...layer_embedded
I've read about this one month ago, but things haven't change a lot since then.
Just yesterday (21-09-2011) on the Kryoflux forums Mr. Vince announced that the Windows software with IPF write support was ready for release.
Sadly if you want to read protected disks you still have to dump the raw data and send it to SPS for them to make an IPF file.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob_gb
But I can make a "Master Backup" of my protected disks in any other image format?
Also, I can make a real backup copy of my protected disks?
Thanks
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
If you need a specific IPF image, you can ask the CAPS guys and with proof you own the original (I'm assuming a pic or something), you can get an IPF to write back...
I own one. Can't wait for the write support.
(Well, I can.. I could have asked to be in the beta, but my schedule was such that I decided not to push for it... So it's my fault I'm not writing yet.)
Creating images is so simple, even I can do it. :roll:
One of the first things I did when I got mine was grab my original Faery Tale Adventure and make an ADF. (Yes, that's not a "full" image, but it's a nice option and something I could do easily)
Created the image, loaded it in WinUAE and was playing Faery Tale Adventure in under 5 minutes.
My only "issues" with it are that the 5 1/4" support has some caveats.
Specifically "flippy" disks. Disks that use both sides, but only 1 index hole. That currently is tricky, not for kryoflux, but for almost any 5 1/4" drive you want to use. You currently need a "mythical" drive mech that can step to track -8. That or some hardware hackery (which is probably right up the alley of most people here) to add something to generate a second fake index signal.
However, my C64 died, so that's a bit on hold anyway...
desiv
(p.s. There are other ways to get IPF images also.. This IS the Internet age after all.:nod:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by desivYesQuote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
If you need a specific IPF image, you can ask the CAPS guys and with proof you own the original (I'm assuming a pic or something), you can get an IPF to write back...
I own one. Can't wait for the write support.
(Well, I can.. I could have asked to be in the beta, but my schedule was such that I decided not to push for it... So it's my fault I'm not writing yet.)
Creating images is so simple, even I can do it. :roll:
One of the first things I did when I got mine was grab my original Faery Tale Adventure and make an ADF. (Yes, that's not a "full" image, but it's a nice option and something I could do easily)
Created the image, loaded it in WinUAE and was playing Faery Tale Adventure in under 5 minutes.
My only "issues" with it are that the 5 1/4" support has some caveats.
Specifically "flippy" disks. Disks that use both sides, but only 1 index hole. That currently is tricky, not for kryoflux, but for almost any 5 1/4" drive you want to use. You currently need a "mythical" drive mech that can step to track -8. That or some hardware hackery (which is probably right up the alley of most people here) to add something to generate a second fake index signal.
However, my C64 died, so that's a bit on hold anyway...
desiv
(p.s. There are other ways to get IPF images also.. This IS the Internet age after all.:nod:)
Hi mate :)
These are great news.
First, I want it to make backups in "real images" of my protected disks, copy these copys to blank floppys, and use the backups to play on my real Amigas and... maybe under WinUAE?
Second is to make a floppy images database (protected & unprotected) and store in one HDD for future use....
.....
There's 2 ways. One is IPFs. These are real images. But Kryoflux "users" can't make IPFs. We can make "stream files" which SPS can convert into IPFs. However, there are a lot of IPFs already, so you might not need to re-make your protected disk image. You might just need the IPF if it exists. If it doesn't, SPS wants your stream files. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
The other way would be to make your own image in what they call the "draft" format, which is aimed at just what you want.
Unfortunately, there isn't any time-frame on the release of the "draft" format yet...
Yep, you can do that. You can now with the existing IPFs and you can make your own ADFs of unprotected disks.Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
Or, when the "draft" format is released, you can make all your own images.
desiv
(Note: that is assuming draft is ever released. I believe it will be, based on the teams delivery on their promises so far, but.. ;-) )
Hi again :)
Well, finally I bought one "Advanced Kit" few minutes a go at the online store. Still available: 9 Advanced, 10 Basic, 2 Olders...
A bit expensive, but I think is a good device... :roll:
Thanks to all for your comments & support
Best wishes
I brought one of the first batch, I have yet to power it up.
I buy things so there there when I want them not necessarily to use them just because I have them ;-)
HiQuote:
Originally Posted by Slayer
Well, I have a very large collection of original games/apps for Amiga, Amstrad, ZX, PC, ...... and, really, I need/want to preserve it in their original format, and use my backups to play (ie: I love to play floppy games in my A600 :D)
.... :)
Hi again :)
Woooo!!! The actual batch is going out....
Advanced 6, Basic 10, Olders 1......
In only one day...... :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
I wonder if that is because the software with write support has just been released.
I know what I will be doing this evening :)
What? It is.. Yeay..Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob_gb
Now I have to find some IPFs to test with.. ;-) I knew I should have done that earlier..
I figure there's no point in bugging the SPS guys right now for verification of my originals to DL, they are probably going to be swamped for a bit.
I did see that the Dream17 website has some IPFs for DL that should be a good test to start out..
However, the wife wants to go out and walking and taking pictures of birds right now. (The ones that fly around with wings and feathers, not the English phrase for women..)
I should have know that buying her that camera would come back at me.. ;-)
Hopefully, I will get to test an IPF write later today...
desiv
Hi mate :)Quote:
I did see that the Dream17 website has some IPFs for DL that should be a good test to start out..
Yes, yesterday I downloaded around 20 titles from the Dream17 web site... I'm waiting my new toy........ :p
---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------
Hi again.....
Just downloaded the new DTC 2.0 with IPF write support.... :bounceBoingBall::bounceBoingBall::bounceBoingBall::bounceBoingBall::bounceBoingBall:
Well, I extracted the new beta software and there is already an IPF to test.
A game called Lethal Xcess..
So, I'll start with that one...
I wasn't familiar with that game, but it was apparently written by a couple of ST demo coders.. I LOVED this line from the Wikipedia article:
;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Also of interest, it was released as a dual format disk. ST and Amiga could boot off of the same disks.. I don't have an ST, so I won't be able to test that (if these IPFs are that dual format version).
Would make sense tho. Would be impressive AND show Amiga and ST owners it works with the same image files.
OK, it works!!! Created the 2 disks for the Lethal Xcess and it worked great!
(Well, I had to disable CPU caches in my 1200, but other than that..)
I lost badly, but that's just a sign that it worked as it should.. ;-)
desiv
Yes I downloaded the write support software too but I'm not really interested in preserving my originals as much as reinstating them if they don't work.
So the important thing is to collect the digital images and have them on hand.
I don't know how many original games I have but I guess it sits over 300 but less than 500 and most of them have boxes and manuals... perhaps quite a few of them need restored, I don't know...
The fake index signal will work as a hack for personal backups, but to do it right you should wait for them to release the details of modifying drives for track -8 support. No drive, out of the box, supports it completely; you'll need to at least add a track 0 bypass circuit. Most drives, though, will also require mechanical modification to make it go to -8.Quote:
Originally Posted by desiv
I had a hand in sorting all that out, and I can tell you that it works 100%. Not all drives can be modded, though, and those that can need some non-trivial work.
It's pretty cool, though, to perfectly dump a flippy in one shot. :)
As for write support, it's there, and it's real. IPFs only right now, but plans for supporting other formats (DRAFT, etc.). No firm timeline right now.
Cheers!
WhyreByter
I've tested the writesupport already with my kryoflux - it works flawless - a collectors dream come true. :)
Hi to all,
I'm waiting my new Kryoflux so, I don't have the possibiility to test. I can't wait... sorry.... :p
I have one question.....
If I don't remember bad, Dungeon Master have one of the most powerfull floppy protection system (random access to random tracks at random times.....) Anyone can test it?
- IPF-to-Floppy?
- Original-to-Backup copy?
Thanks in advance, I have the original Dungeon Master and is one of my loved games :)
Hi again.......
After reading drives compatibility list, I bought few minutes a go:
2 x Samsung, SFD-321B, T5, Tracks: 84
2 x ALPS, DF354H911C, Tracks: 84
Two for work, two as reserve.... :D
Best wishes
Hmm....are you sure? I've already copied the IPF to disk - it's just a normal DOS Disk and surprisingly the game works on a heavy loaded A4000.Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
Hi mate :)Quote:
Hmm....are you sure? I've already copied the IPF to disk - it's just a normal DOS Disk and surprisingly the game works on a heavy loaded A4000.
You copy the ipf to disk with Kryoflux, right? .... So, you have a "Master Backup Copy" with all protections unmodiffied.
I not received my Kryoflux, but I cannot copy my own disk as a normal DOS disk.....
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/210
[QUOTE=merlinkv;215922]Yes Sir, the full name of the IPF is: Dungeon Master V3.6 1992 (Psygnosis). So this is the Psygnosis re-realise of the game.Quote:
You copy the ipf to disk with Kryoflux, right? .... So, you have a "Master Backup Copy" with all protections unmodiffied.
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/210
Interesting link - thank you. I've checked my three orginal version's of Dungeon Master, all of them are "normal" DOS Disk's. I've newer new that there is a tricky copyprotection like that out there.
I'm not so sure about those ALPS drives now.Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
I was using an ALPS drive before to make ADFs and such, no problem.
And the first IPFs I wrote, the LethalXcess worked fine.
But no go with SuperHangOn.
So, I tried with an Epson SMD-300, same floppy and IPF from before and it worked..
So, that Alps was OK for reading (at least what I read) to ADF, but it wasn't good enough for writing at least SuperHang-On (and I'm guessing others as well)...
YMMV tho...
Good luck..
desiv
[QUOTE=AMike;215973]Hi mate :)Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
Thanks for the info :thumbsup:
Maybe the protection is in the frist versions?. With my version you can copy the disk (XCopy) , but when you try to play the game crashes or stops randomly. Maybe a problem of the media? I don't know... all my floppys are in good storage box, but is a possibility.
In anyway I have the same ipf from Psygnosis. I will try with this image....
---------- Post added at 05:28 ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 ----------
Hi mate :)Quote:
Originally Posted by desivI'm not so sure about those ALPS drives now.Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
I was using an ALPS drive before to make ADFs and such, no problem.
And the first IPFs I wrote, the LethalXcess worked fine.
But no go with SuperHangOn.
So, I tried with an Epson SMD-300, same floppy and IPF from before and it worked..
So, that Epson was OK for reading (at least what I read) to ADF, but it wasn't good enough for writing at least SuperHang-On (and I'm guessing others as well)...
YMMV tho...
Good luck..
desiv
Thanks for the info :thumbsup:
Also I have some working units of the Sony MPF-920 & Samsung SFD-321B.
But, of course, I need to test all of them with good quality media (for "Master Backups" :))
Here are some pictures of the KryoFlux user interface with Dungeon Master image. Scroll down to "Protection Track".
http://www.softpres.org/kryoflux:ui:stream-plot
This is an interesting protection (perhaps only on early releases, I can't remember) that confused the floppy controller into producing different data each time it was read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karadoc
Hi mate :)
Very interesting link. Thanks for share :thumbsup:
That's true for IPF files. Good copy protection just can't copied, it creates ambiguity. IPFs store true masterin data. It was not our decision to protect floppies in the first place, we just happen to have the knowledge to preserve them. Bringing them back to floppy is a nice side effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob_gb
The software will be developed further and one day writing of raw (stream or draft format) will come. BUT: We can't rule out ambiguity. The best stuff will still need some tampering to copy correctly. You might want to do this on your own, buy messing with the raw data read, or you e.g. take the IPF that exists.
I'd like to make sure that people understand KryoFlux hasn't been crippled. The hardware is capable of all of this, all you need to do is feed it the right data...
Understood..Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.vince
The fact is, this is incredibly complicated stuff and there are many many different variables...
You guys have delivered on your statements so far (kryoflux to market - Check. write support - Check), so I'm not worried about the future.
And when we can write stream or draft, I'm totally OK with a format that is known to be 98% (or whatever) accurate for my ability range.
And, if I find a disk that isn't working for me, there are the known IPFs, and if that doesn't exist yet, there is SPS...
All in all, I think this is a great product and I'm happy to be an owner....
You guys are awesome!! :bowdown:
Just my $0.00000002 worth..
desiv
From the collectors point of view the IPF write support is much more important than the write support of the own stream files. Only the IPF-format can guarantee that I'll get a 100% original and working copy of the game. So the whole team have done a great job - thank you.
I've had a Kryoflux since just after its original release and have been more than happy with it. I've archived a lot of disks to ADF with it from my personal collection so I have working backups.
I've also been a member of the beta testing and have been playing around with the write support. In the betas it has been getting better, but the drive you use is the most important part. Some drives will read and make images perfectly, but then have issues writing an image back to disk because that process is more intensive.
The drive I use the most is an ALPs and it seems to have the best reliability so far. It can read to track 84 which is also useful. Other drives I have that seem to work well are Sony and Samsung units.
Just received my Kryoflux yesterday.
Not received my "new" APLs drives but working/testing now with two Sony MPF920.
At the moment IPF write works great, even using old HD floppys (with the hole closed). :D
Testing the floppys in one A600 with KS 3.1 and 1.3 every game runs and I can play without probs. :thumbsup:
Now I want to start to store my FD collection in image format. But, as I know, the problem became with the protected disks, right?
With protected FDD's, I cannot made an image an write back again to the floppy?
Thanks
At the moment the stumbling block is the supported formats. Only IPF files are currently supported for writing back to disk, but you cannot at the moment use the Krypflux to make IPFs. If we could, then write protected disks wouldn't be a problem as the IPF format is designed to make perfect images so it retains everything, and then writes it back to the disk perfectly retaining all protection. However, because at the moment ADF is all we can use to make images we are stuck.
If the team ever make IPF creation possible then we will have that ability to image write protected disks and write them back perfectly.
It is still possible to make working ADFs from protected disks, but there will always be issues with some disks when making the images. Also the drive being used is important as some will create better images, and be able to read more disks properly.
As I mentioned earlier I've been using ALPs drives and had pretty good success with them, but some disks I've tried to archive have failed to read correctly, so I'm now going to try and source a Samsung drive (as Kryoflux was developed with them specifically) to see if that Improves the reading accuracy and success rate.
@Harrison
Thanks for the info my friend :)
Backed-up some original disks as "AmigaDOS Sector Image":
- Deluxe Paint III 1989
- Soccer Kid 1993
Some erros detected in two disks... repaired by KryoFlux?
- Birds of Prey 1991
- Arabian Nights 1993
- Jaguar XJ220 1992
All tracks apperas in grey. Maybe protected?
Now I will try to write back to disk using TSGui
More info soon :)
Regarding disk errors. I often find if there are only a couple of bad sectors when it is reading the disk and making the image that it often works OK. I tested this with some PD slideshow disks, because these are easy to test the whole contents of the disk as it has to load the whole contents of the disk to run through the whole slideshow, so any disk read errows will show with corrupted images , read errors or disk CRC errors. I found this often didn't happen even with a couple of bad sectors.
Strangely I've also found that sometimes if a disk is generating lots of errors, if I stop it, make a disk image for a different disk, and then try with the disk again it can often then read the disk fully with no errors. A little strange but true. Sort of makes disks feel like they are unpredictable living things, rather than storing digital data.
Nope, no way
Writing back the Jaguar XJ220 adf's to disks using TSGUI or ADFBlitzer results in non working FDD's :(
I tought my only way is to backup in real floppys using Cyclone+XCopy....
The team are working on adding writing support for ADF and other sector image formats. Once that happens I have high hopes that this will solve the issue. until then the Kryoflux is best used for backup purposes, or for writing known good IPF files.
That's great !!!
But I'm confussed. Not all IPF's are good?
All IPF's are verified as best they can to be perfect copies of the original disks, yes. What I meant is that not all disks are available as IPF's so it limits it a bit at the moment. Also there might not be the same versions of a disk available as is required.
ADF will never be as accurate or safe as IPF so I do hope reading to IPF does become possible at some point.
Bad news :(
Just power-on computer, Kryoflux and FDD's like yesterday... and the same error as the first time. Non readable disks or disk with erros :(
Drives recognized and working but not writing good from IPF's (The same images recorded good yesterday).
Installation is like showed in manual, also I cleaned drives and used very good floppys, but no way....
Maybe need a firmware update? How to update firmware?
Thanks
Yeah, first thing I did with my Kryoflux (write-wise) was to fix my broken Super Hang-On.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
Worked great!! Yeay!
Then I went to fix my broken Tetris..
Found the IPF, wrote it over my non-booting Tetris and..
er.. wrong Tetris...
Apparently there isn't an IPF of the version of Tetris (Spectrum Holobyte) that I have..
So I need to wait for someone who has the version I have to image it, send it to SPS, have them evaluate and verify it and turn it into an IPF...
Not complaining.. I love my KryoFlux.. And it's getting better and better...
desiv
Yeah, and we have been looking for a decent version of that one for years.
---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:13 ----------
Is this resolved? If not, it might be better asking on the KF forums...Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinkv
Hi,
Nope, not solved.
Tested with Fast & Slow firmware and the same.... non working disks or with read erros... :(
Have you tried a different drive? To best honest, the KF forum is a far better place for this, because the other guys know much more about this stuff than me...
Hi mate :)
Yes, I also wrote in the KF forums. Writing here is because I know some AmiFriends with high skills and knowledges also work with KryoFlux.
At the moment I have only Sony MFP920 83 tracks (these are in the "compatibility list" as a tested drives) and both works fine as PC drives and in "Amiga mode" using Kylwalda adapters.
Just to update,
Going to be desperated I opened all my retro-stuff boxes and I found some real DD floppys in near new condition.
Crossed fingers... praying to all Gods.... and :)
All IPF-to Disk Games runs & works :thumbsup:
I tought Kryoflux only write Amiga IPF's in real DD floppys and in very good condition, not like my Cyclone (I can use with it DD or HD -with hole closed- without probs)
Great!
Yes, I think that because of the magnetic differences of HD disks, they are not very good for proper mastering (which is what KryoFlux does, very accurately) of DD data.
Hi,
I received answer from @mr.vince (KryoFlux Forums) about some questions of IPF writing. He told me the new DTC version will be improved with verify/compare options..... :)
Yes, they are always working on improving it, and Mr Vince is great at answering questions and helping as much as possible.
Also as you discovered, because DD and HD floppies are different you will never get as accurate a write for a DD image by using HD disks.
The drive being used is also very important because they can vary a lot. This is why I've been trying to source some Samsung SFD-321 drives recently. I've been using Sony and ALPS drivers with a lot of success this year, but wanted to get hold of the same drive make KryoFlux was developed with to try to replicate a close as possible the best setup. Going to test the Samsung drive tomorrow and see how it goes.