Question.
Can I replace the 25mhz 040 with a 40mhz one and a 80mhz crystal?
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Question.
Can I replace the 25mhz 040 with a 40mhz one and a 80mhz crystal?
Yes, but you need to modify the board a little.
http://www.rabayjr.com/Amiga/A3640_D...66MHZ_r350.jpg
If I supply the parts:
-25mhzA3640
-80mhz crystal
-40mhz 040
-stump of wire
Can Some one fix this for me then? Pretty please?
Just remember: if your board is the crappy 3.0 version, forget about it!
The only upgrade you can do on the 3.0 board is replace the EC/LC CPU for a full 040.
BTW: you cannot overclock a 25MHz unit to 40MHz! You'll end with a very broken CPU. 25MHz can be overclocked to 28MHz, tops. 33MHz units can go to 36~38MHz and 40MHz units can go up to 44~48MHz.
I have no idea what version it is. It has no sticker on U209.
It just reads:
TI
22V10-10CFN
40307XWAF
Is there any software way to tell?
Comparing pictures at amiga.resource.cx and bboah.com, it seems that I have a V3.1, heatsink and other stickers match up with the 3.1 version, the 3.0 and 3.2 version stickers differs. If it's anything to go by...
BTW, here is another useful link with a bit more information (and a crappiest photo). :wink:
If you find a MC68040 (not the fry-an-egg XC68040), you can overclock even the 25MHz over 40MHz without issues (on 3.1 and 3.2 boards).
Your board don't have any sticker? All chips have the -01 sticker (but the CPU), only U204 have the -02/-03 sticker. Also there is the version printed on the board, near the socket.
I was planning to buy a 40mhz 040 (XC68040RC40M). And then put a 80mhz crystal on the board in place of the 50mhz crystal that's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by rkauer
But the only text I've found so far which suggests that it can be done is here: "Overclocking the Commodore A3640"
So, I realise it's pretty thin... So, does any one know - can it be done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Overclocking the Commodore A3640
Edit: You beat me to it with the link... :-D
Ah, crap. I've only found an XC - I'll continue to scout for an MC then.Quote:
Originally Posted by rkauer
U401, U208, U207, U213, U203 and U400 have stickers. They all say "*-01" and stuff like "exlat", "term" "mapper", "rst", "lebus" and "oebus".Quote:
Originally Posted by rkauer
Aha! I do have a 3.1 board :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rkauer
A german guy on the other bay was selling those lovely chips a little time back...
Worth a look, don't you think? :wink:
@arnljot
get yourself an MC68040 full core @ 40mhz m8, much cooler!!! (XC's are toasty chippies)
once you have all your kit PM me, I am sure I can help. I have a 33mhz 040 version of the A3640 that I will do this mod too as well me thinks :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
TC's ears perk up :lol:
Thanks Zetr0.
I'll come back to you when I have all my ducks in a row.
This time I only found a pair of used equipment with those chips inside, don't know if socketed... :|
Yeah, I googled and "040 68040 +otherbay", and checked .hk, .ca, .com, .de, .ca, .co.uk, .sg and .my Nada. Just those embeded ones. And two were sufrace mount types. And one PGA at 33mhz. Going from 33 to 40, isn't maybe much. But I'd rather be "purist" on a hack like this.
If you find a MC type unit run for it.
Doesn't matter if the mask says 33MHz!
It will be good to use at 40MHz and even more! :D
From my experiences.........
Not sure the A3640 is actually capable of a 40Mhz CPU anyway, even if you fit a 40Mhz CPU part....
The reason being, the mod shown here by rkauer is NOT needed for swapping a Crystal & O/C-ing the CPU. How fast you can go depends on the "Quality" of your CPU,
My Rev 3.1 040 clocked to 33Mhz without wires traced all over the place.....
I guess plugging in a 40Mhz CPU & a 80Mhz X-Tal is the only thing to do for being sure!
XC or MC doesn't matter imo. The 040 even @ 25Mhz is better suited with a Fan/Heatsink combo in an A4KD anytime. In an A4KT, you might get away with Passive 40Mhz CPU, but this depends on Air flow through the case & I suspect a bog standard A4KT is not going to cut the cloth. :wink:
Kin
This is the way I plan to go. And now, by your reccomendation seeing as this is planned to go into a desktop model, also with a fan and heatsink too now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Hell
So you don't fancy my XC68040 40Mhz I have here then?
Kin
Oh yes!
:-)
I'll place a wanted asap.
Mate, ....you only have to PM me! :wink:
Kin
Too late :)
I'm grease lightning. :lol:
Btw, do you also have a 80mhz cryztal.
Yes, but only in the Smaller can type like your modified CSPPC card!
/....Kin legs it to the wanted section....
Aha, it's not the kind that is used in the A3640. Too bad.
No "Too Bad" about it m8........
Doesnt matter a toss!. Just get the same 4 pins down to the same 4 pins on the board & you are good to go! - Trust me!! :mrgreen:
Kin
Zetr0, this all ends up in your hands, wadaya think?
Zetr0 is a legend in his own house RE H/W mods! - I aint so sure the card is good for 40Mhz period & a "try it & see it" thing is probably the best way to go.
I don't have a problem sending the Stuff to Zetr0, just so long as you understand it might not work, so maybe best to hold on any payments other than postage charges b4 we go tits up on this!?
What do you think Keith?
Charlie
Excellent offer Kin Hell. If Zetr0 agrees I'll be happy as a clam.
I'll get a dil socket too for the mod? Also, if it was possible, I'd add some beers in the shipment to be had after the mod was done :)
is this what I need to buy? How many pins?
No m8. You need this 14 Pin socket:Quote:
Originally Posted by arnljot
Google my "14-pin DIL socket" text for an eGay result @ £.xxp! :wink:
The sockets thereby this search means you retain the Pin pitches for your A3640 Card 1, 2 & 13 & 14 & press out the other pins bar 7 & 8 which should be snipped, as I kind of mention on my overclocking CSPPC thread. When you plug in the smaller Can X-Tal I have here as per your modded CSPPC card, just hot wire the snipped pins to the card (7 & 8 to 13 & 14 ) accordingly. It's the 5V package that is of all concern & pin orientation can be bent/twisted/conformed to what ever configuration you like, but please ensure physical orientation to the original socket is maintained what ever degree of twisting you apply!! :D
The other way around, I had a 14Pin X-Tal fitted to a 233Mhz CSPPC card I once owned. You know already these cards use an 8 pin socket. You ahve my Modded one to prove it! :mrgreen:
It'd be a whole pile easier to attain any socket & push out the pins as per my OC thread here on AmiBay! These pushed out pins can be soldered directly to the A3640 & don't believe the hype about such practises being worse than than a direct Solder. I sent you a Socketed/Over Clocked aka reversable 060 over-clocked CSPPC & I bet my bottom dollar, every time you switch X-Tals, ....it works first time! :wink:
Same goes for any card modded as I describe using an "Un-Soldered" X-tal in the first instance!
Stike me down if you aint already using 66Mhz as ur default speed! :P
Kin
Item 48-159-24 is just that, a 14 pin DIL socket. The picture is for a 24 pin socket. Only these are low profile. Do I need normal height ones - is it so that low profile sockets are not useable?
Item 48-130-69 on that site is an other alternative. Also 48-135-64 is a cheaper alternative, not low profile and in black plastic closer in resemblance to what´s on AmigaKit.
48-161-20 is the cheapest. But sell in 34 per pack. And is the kind that ICs goes into (two side contact in the socket). Same kind that ROMs go into, again 14 pin type.
When shipping is counted ordering from elfa is the fastest and simplest for me. Unless one of you have the component needed?
The reason for the delay line hack is when the board is running over 33MHz, what the original 3640 don't expect...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Hell
The hack is well known and absolutely recommended.
Sorry guys, but I totally agree with Kinny here: the CPU part will NOT make the difference. It's the fact that you're overclocking your motherboard that causes SUCK (aka. FAIL) to happen. And the chips on the A3640. You're driving the motherboard because you've set the EXT jumpers when using the A3640. Now, having said that, I know of one other guy (other than the .au link someone posted) that claims A3640@40Mhz working. I have tried 2 and neither go to 40Mhz (again, not the CPU, but the components on the mobo and the A3640 itself). So, if you do do it, make sure you cool the A3640 chips and the main mobo chips (let it run, once it's been up for a while, feel them and see which one is hot and put some paste and a heatsink on them).
One other big hint (thanks Jens Schoenfeld): the delay line chip is suspect to temporal and temperature related fatigue. After years it will not work as well which will eventually cause total malfunctioning of the board.
More info here (search for me posts):
http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/view ... 1222975265
@arnljot: I can almost guarantee 35-36Mhz will work, so let me know if you want a crystal that's in the ~70Mhz range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Hell
I feel my boing balls shrinking now :-)
Reading from a.org I see that this will also affect the heat generated by my motherboard...
Will 33 to 35 also be a tough strain on the mobo, or will it be safer?
If so I think 35mhz on the 40mhz chip of Kinnie is the way to go? Then I need a 70mhz crystal.
33Mhz is dead easy & should be doable with most Full 040's. I have a used 66Mhz X-Tal here that was actually on my old A3640 back in the early 90's. Legs are a bit beat up now but she should be good for another solder sesh!
Still wouldn't hurt to fit a 40Mhz part & run it slower. Should be a littel cooler for it, heatsink or not! :wink:
@ da9000
Thanks for hearing me & confirming some of the stuff I read back in those pioneering days....
Kin
What about 35mhz, just as easy or are we getting close to edge values then?
Probably edge values of the card architecture itself & possibly beyond most Stock 25Mhz 040's. One of those things you have to "suck to try" & whilst sucking to try, it could all melt down & pack in all together!? - One of the joy's of overclocking! :| :mrgreen:
Kin
Please keep in mind that I have no intention of having the 25mhz cpu overclocked. We are now talking about underclocking your 40mhz cpu.
What I'm wondering is the card it self (A3640) and it's effect on the motherboard. Will 35mhz be just as okay as 33mhz, or are those 2 extra mhz moving it too close to the edge?
It's like this Arnljot....
Over-clocking any device is going to have consequences & the further you try to push things, the more consequential it is likely to go. For another 2Mhz, is it worth risking a burn-out?
I have a dead CSMKIII for a similar event if you want to try & convince yourself different! :wink:
Also, The Mobo will be fine because the timing is sent to the card & as da9000 already concurs, the architecture of the A3640 is very dodgy at these kind of speeds.
Running an 040 @ 33Mhz should yeild around 23.5 MIPS whereas a stock 25Mhz part would return approx 19 MIPS. It's almost like bolting an Extra 030 @ 25Mhz onto your 040! :D
Kin
Okay, I think I'm catching up now. Put me down if I'm not :-D
- When increasing the frequency of a Commodore A3640 it's preferable to underclock a higher rated CPU than overclocking a cpu(running a 040@40 @33mhz is preferable to running a 040@25 @33mhz both in terms of heat and performance). I get the heat bit, but not the performance bit.[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- Say what ever you want about Commodore engineers but the A3640 is a piece of **** engineering?[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- The card is the bottle neck when frequency is increased. If it runs at 40mhz, the motherboard will generate extra heat too (SuperBuster, Ramsey, Alice, etc. jfr da9000@a.org)[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- If the card runs at 40mhz it will die faster (caps or other)[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
:-) Now, my boing balls are in line. I agree, lets do the 33mhz frequency.
- Zetr0 will say "yea or nay"[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- Arnljot Will send postage to Kin Hell[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- Kin Hell will send Xtal(66mhz) and 040@40 mhz with fan and sink to Zetr0[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- Arnljot will send A3640 and DIL14 socket to Zetr0[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- Zetr0 will put it together[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- Arnljot owes Zetr0 bigtime, and sends postage money to him[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
- Arnljot receives 33mhz A3640 card[/*:m:2nmlvd5s]
Now, if I only could get Zetr0 to also look at those Caps... :?
Just let me know who I have to send the bits to. We might need to re-evaluate pricing too as I have a rather sexy Blue LED Fan/Heatsink combo which I can supply with the CPU & X-Tal.Quote:
Originally Posted by arnljot
Tbh, I'd just solder the X-Tal straight onto the A3640. Mine is not sweet enough to be used in a socket. It's been on & off things more times than a wh0res drawers have been up & down! :|
Kin
I have inspected the caps (105, 106 and 107) closely now. None of them are leaking, but all three are mounted the wrong way around.
I've also asked Anthony Hoffman if he has a v3.2 u209 (pre-programmed Lattice GAL22V10D-10LJ GAL).
C102B and C102E are hard to inspect since they are beneath the heatsink. But they appear to be fine too.
No, no. AFAIK, the EXT jumpers say: get me the clock for the motherboard from an external source. The source SENDS the clock to the mobo. That source happens to be the A3640. So if that card is running with a 66Mhz crystal oscillator, the motherboard is getting 33Mhz to drive the custom chips. Which means they'll be overclocked, so the motherboard won't be "fine", unless those chips are cooled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Hell
@arnljot:
To make this brief: if you're going to overclock it, which I think is OK as long as it's done right, then do it properly:
1) cool the CPU
2) cool the A3640 (chips on it get hot), also replace SMD caps
3) cool the custom chips and any other motherboard chips that get hot, I'd also replace the SMD caps
Don't expect miracles, but a ~37Mhz 040'ed A3640 will allow you to play Doom nicely ;-)
And anything that doesn't need high memory bandwidth (3D games and such do, mp3 player does not), will run quite happily, while at 25Mhz it wouldn't have.
@ da9000
'Put the gun down' - 'Put the gun down'. :mrgreen:
:Doh: - Someone smoke me a Kipper & I'll be back for breakfast.........
The Mobo always takes it's speed from the Crystal on the Mobo.
The INT/EXT jumpers merely tell the Amiga which Speed crystal to use for the CPU/FPU, NOT the Chipset! :wink:
Kin
I absolutely agree with Kin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Hell
The Mobo conatains 2 Oscillators
1 - 50MHz which is used in "INT" mode to drive the 3620/30 CPU card which has no oscillator on board or "EXT" which means the relevent CPU Slot pins will hold the clock generated by the CPU card's on board oscilator, for ex, the A3640.
2 - 28.37516MHz (for PAL) this Oscillator is used for the chipset timing & is independant of the CPU oscillator.
I think the speed limitations of the A3640 are mainly down to the card's board design & the speed that some of the devices can operate at, the delay line does not help either as it fixes the range but by altering the delay line (as rkauer suggests) higher speeds can be attempted but failure or stability maybe compromised due to crosstalk & noise problems due to the cards track layout..etc.
TC :mrgreen:
Also, the (again) MC68040 will not produce any heat (true: cooler than a 060!). The XC versions are another matter.
The NTSC versions have a motherboard clock of 28.8383 (NTSC clock). Good for people who converts a NTSC unit and reuse the crystal on some old GVP 030 @25MHz :wink:
Any "overclock" over 33MHz (even "under clocks"!) on the A3640 must have the mod made, even to run at 34Mhz.
But in a better world you will swap the PAL chips on this pure crap board to GAL units. I have more details on how to make it, not pertaining to the thread.
The defence rest, M'lord.
My head is spinning and I have vertigo.
This is why we at my job normally don´t let the engineers correspond per email with the client on CC. We usually gather in a room with a whiteboard and then have the thing hammered out within 0.5h
:lol:
This is poetic justice I guess, or pathetic. Either way, I´m totally lost :-D
Where is the A3640 card atm?
Ah, someone assertive - I respond well to that.
It is in an antistatic bag, inside a box. In the living room. Next to a huge pile of Amiga gear.
In prioritized order, this is what it needs done:
- Changed and corrected caps[/*:m:3qhn5reg]
- Upgraded to v3.2 Anthony Hoffman has given me a good deal on that[/*:m:3qhn5reg]
- Underclock and activly cool. 33mhz as my boing balls have shrunk.[/*:m:3qhn5reg]
Now, how this will be done I have no idea atm.
Okay Arnljot. Is the card slik Screened as a 3.1 (Along the CPU connector edge) with GAL chip U209 ending - 02? (Top Left area of card with CPU Connector nearest you)
For reference Pic, see the Pic here on TC's Thread....
Linky
In the Pic, U209 Gal chip is the one in the bottom right corner of pic. That ends -01 & is normal for a Rev 3.0 A3640.
A Rev 3.1 A3640 is silk Screened 3.1 by the CPU Connector but U209 will end -02.
A Rev 3.2 A3640 is Silk Screened 3.1, but U209 will end -03!
The other GAL Chips might also be different revisions depending on the overall revison of the A3640 & Anthony Hoffman is probably your best bet for the Tech! :wink:
Kin