Q: Amiga PCI Solutions

With this post I'm trying to collect information on current (and to some degree past) Amiga Classic PCI solutions. I'll collect links and info on solutions for the Amiga1200 and Amiga4000 as they are the most common amigas to upgrade with PCI cards.

This post will be a work in progress. And I encourage people to post knowledge and questions to this thres. I cannot answer any I expect, but others might, and then we learn. When this post has reached a certain quality - I will know it when it does, I will remove the "Q" in the title, and replace it with an "A". :-)

Amiga4000D:
DCE GRex4000D
Elbox Mediator 4000
Elbox Mediator 4000Di
Matay Prometheus

Amiga1200:
Elbox Mediator 1200SX
DCE GRex1200

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• Genral on the Mediator cards:
• Still available from Elbox and Amigakit and other resellers as of april 2009.[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Only the Mediator version for towered Amiga4000 machinces have the video slot found on the usual amiga Zorro daughterboard[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Product specs from Elbox states that this card is DMA capable. This is a truth with serious modifications. The cards uses a DMA window which is available if you have a gfx card available. A network card can then use this memory as a buffer enabling for instance 100Mbit. Otherwise NICs are only 10MBit capable on the Mediator.[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Drivers and software are form time to time still updated by Elbox.[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Only the new 1200TX supports ATI Radeon cards due to a voltage problem in previous Mediator models.[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• The Mediator PCI busboard is a "two board" solution, one board holds the PCI slots, another logic card enables these PCI slots for the Amiga.[/*:m:24bwq40o]

• General on the GRex cards:
• No longer available - unless second hand, and DCE out of business[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Few were made[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Truely DMA capable PCI solution.[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Requires a PPC amiga or an amiga with CS mkIII (uses the BVision or CVision expansion port on these cards).[/*:m:24bwq40o]

• General on Prometheus cards:
• Matay is out of business[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Cards available from AmigaKit[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• ?[/*:m:24bwq40o]

• Support for Mediator:
• Available directly from elbox, go to their site[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Or from this old mirror of The unoffical support site[/*:m:24bwq40o]

• Support for GRex:
• Internet (is that still around?).Mirror of the offical now defunct) support site for G-Rex at VGR.com[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Also the unoffical site: (unofficial) G-REX PCI Support Homepage[/*:m:24bwq40o]

• Support for Prometeus
• Archive.org page of Matay.pl[/*:m:24bwq40o]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mediator 4000 specs

• PCI busboard five PCI 2.1 compliant slots[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• 33 MHz PCI clock (66 MHz with SharkPPC G3/G4)[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• up to 132 MB/s transfer speed between PCI cards (264 MB/s with SharkPPC G3/G4)[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• 4 GB continuous PCI memory space accessed through the 512 MB window in the Zorro III address space [/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Zorro III busboard six Zorro III slots[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• supports Zorro III autoconfig[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• one extended video slot [/*:m:24bwq40o]
• busmastering controller supports the busmastering mechanism in all PCI slots[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• supports DMA transfers between PCI cards and the A4000 motherboard[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• address and data parity control support in all PCI slots[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• four PCI interrupt lines[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• can use the SDRAM/SGRAM of PCI display cards as system memory - faster than memory on Amiga processor cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• works with all existing A4000 processor cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• the board is part of the Mirage 4000Pro tower system, it cannot be fitted into the original A4000 case [/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Mediator Multimedia CD Picasso96 2D drivers for: Voodoo5, Voodoo4, Voodoo3, Voodoo Banshee, S3 Virge and S3 Virge DX PCI graphic cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Warp 3D drivers for: Voodoo3, Voodoo4 and Voodoo5 PCI graphic cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Sana II network drivers for 10 and 100 Mbps PCI Ethernet cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• AHI sound drivers for: Sound Blaster 128 and ForteMedia FM801 based PCI cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• TV tuner drivers for most available PCI TV tuner cards (98 TV card models, several tuners supported) - requires a PCI graphics card[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• USB drivers for the Elbox Spider PCI card - EHCI (Hi-Speed USB 2.0) and OHCI (Full-Speed and Low-Speed USB 1.1) drivers for the Poseidon stack[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• MPEG-2 Audio and Video hardware decoder PCI card drivers are in development [/*:m:24bwq40o]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by GRex 4000 spec

• replaces the original A4000 daughterboard, fits into the standard A4000 desktop case[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• four Zorro III slots and one extended video slot (exactly at the same location as on the original daughterboard)[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• four PCI 2.1 compliant slots[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• 33 MHz PCI clock[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• all slots are DMA capable[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• up to 50 MB/s transfer speed between PCI cards and the CyberStorm[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• 1.76 GB address space without bank switching[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• the CyberStorm firmware has to be updated [/*:m:24bwq40o]
• drivers CyberGFX 4 and Warp3D drivers for Voodoo3, Voodoo4, Voodoo5, Permedia2, ViRGE, ViRGE/DX and SiS6326 graphics cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• driver for Brooktree and Conexant Fusion based TV/Video cards with Microtune or Philips tuners[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• driver for certain Realtek based network cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• driver for certain ESS and ForteMedia sound cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• despite many announcements, USB drivers were not released[/*:m:24bwq40o]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prometheus specs

• four PCI slots clocked with 33 MHz[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• up to 120 MB/s transfer speed between PCI cards[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• up to 12 MB/s transfer speed between PCI cards and the Amiga (higher rates are improbable because of the Buster chip)[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• supports Zorro autoconfig[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• power supply connector[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• metal holders allow stable mounting[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• supplied with extension cord for a graphics card[/*:m:24bwq40o]
• Picasso96 and Warp3D driver for the Voodoo3 graphics card[/*:m:24bwq40o]

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IMAGES:
Matay Prometheus:
http://www.arnljot.com/images/prometheus_angle_view.jpg
http://www.arnljot.com/images/prometheus_mounted.jpg

DCE G-Rex 4000D:
http://www.arnljot.com/images/grex1-medium.jpg
http://www.arnljot.com/images/grex4-medium.jpg

You forgot the A3000/3000T. They use almost the same expansions as the 4000.

Mediators are custom-made for A3000. Prometheus is pretty much universal.

i am having a personal nightmare with my a1200 mediator, when i get time this weekend i'll compile a list of troubles and traumas, a maybe get some pictures together, maybe my woes are some other people woes too.....i'll be back.

cheers, JuvUK

@rkauer
Okay, I will clean up the post when I come home to reflect such changes.

@JuvUK
Goodie, picture pr0n is always welcome.
Also experience reports are invaluable! :-)

Just what this thread was started for.

Jfei, the Elbox A3KT Solution also does the A4KT & they are well different to the Desktop models!

I suppose I have experience of A4KT & Elbox solutions having owned 2 of them in recent years but I just don't have the time to write it up now! - Same for the G-REX 4000D. :|
Bump me sometime l8r! 8)

Kin

yo all,
my Mediator eperiance so far goes something like this......
1st it does work because it does connect to the internet using the ethernet card
2nd voodoo 3 card and sound card do nothing!, had an s3 card in there but was told it was rubbish and problematic so bought a V3 (thanks Kin) have installed the MMCD and the updates from elbox, have installed the latest Picasso drivers. have renamed the cyber graphics icon to voodoo etc.
as soon as i try to either change the screen resolution or try to use the sound card, my system just gurus and resets. i have no idea how to solve my troubled (anyone want to visit me, set up my mediator and spend the night in my spare bedroom? i'll supply food, beer and money :D )
3rd i can't post pictures in here so i've put a couple of meditor pics in the photobooth (can a mod move them to this thread?)

cheers, JuvUK

I have questions about the Mediator:

1. Is the order of PCI cards significant, or do they have to be installed in a particular order (pci slots are numbered)[/*:m:1yx2t4yp]
2. Can the Zorro slot next to an occupied PCI slot be used by small Zorro cards like the buddah or deneb?[/*:m:1yx2t4yp]

the ethernet card has to go in the 1st slot and the graphics card into the last slot, something to do with the DMA i believe.
i don't know about the zorro slot i'm afraid

cheers, JuvUK

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuvUK

the ethernet card has to go in the 1st slot and the graphics card into the last slot, something to do with the DMA i believe.
i don't know about the zorro slot i'm afraid

cheers, JuvUK

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So the order is significant. What about a sound card and a tv card?

I have Sound Blaster, Voodoo3 and a NIC

i don't think it matters about the other cards, just the ethernet and graphics

Ethernet card will NOT work without the Voodoo Card installed & functional. The ethernet card uses some of the Voodoo cards RAM to buffer from! :wink:

Kin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Ethernet card will NOT work without the Voodoo Card installed & functional. The ethernet card uses some of the Voodoo cards RAM to buffer from! :wink:

Kin

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yo Kinny poos,
so from what you're saying, as my Ethernet card does work then my V3 must be working? so why can't i get a picture and why does it keep crashing my miggy?

cheers, Juvvy poos

Prolly cos u haven't installed the thing in the correct manner m8. Sumising your hardware is fine & I know the Voodoo card I sent you was 100% pucker, it's always usually an error between user & Keyboard! :P

Unless of course you statically discharged yourself for not taking the correct precautions! :|

Kin

well buddy,
i assume as the miggy connects to the internet via the mediator and ethernet card, then the hardware side of things must be OK. it's gotta be a uie (user interface error :D )

Yeah Justin. Perhaps re-installing the Elbox Graphics thing again would get you a result. Be sure to delete the Current Voodoo Icon in your Devs/Monitors & getting back to a standard Amiga Dispay before doing so.
Also make sure you install the Elbox Mediator update before attempting to use the Voodoo Driver! :wink:

Charlie

Btw, I thought it was so that a NIC would work in the Mediator even without a gfx card, but only in 10Mbit mode, not 100Mbit mode?

Afaik, the NIC will not work without the Voodoo inserted in a PCI slot. The 10/100 thing is all bs tbh. Your 100Mbit NIC only actually runs @ 10Mbit as the Elbox Boards do not support DMA correctly. This was the Fudge done by Elbox to cover the bs. 10/100Mbit Realtek NIC's are usually on 8139/A/B/C/D revisons of chipset, whereas the 10Mbit Realtek NIC's are on 8029 chipsets.

8139 Realtek NIC's do not work in G-REX PCI solutions, but the 8029 does & is a much much faster experience than 8139 on an Elbox Solution. The two reasons are:
G-REX is fully DMA conversant & there are no motherboard/ZORRO bottleneck/Latencies from G-REX to the CPU card! :D

Kin

I have updated the original post with some pr0n. :drool:

When handling your G-REX 4000D m8, watch out for that Board Modification in the guise of a trace Wire terminating to one of the ZORRO Fingers. It's an official Mod afaiu & had to be done to correct some signal or other. I did have issues with mine in my early days with the card & Emailed the G-REX chaps. They did ask if my board had this mod (which it has) though I never questioned why it was done as I ended up with a result & fully working Voodoo & NIC experience.

Charlie

Radeon clarifications.

Please correct what's wrong here, or if it by some strange force in the universe is correct - then confirm:

1) Mediator 1200TX has 3.3V. This enables it to run the more common 3.3V Radeon 92xx cards.
2) Amiga4000 Mediator models have 5V, thus needing special cards which convert 5V to 3.3V.


New questions:
1) Are the two statements above correct.
2) Will a 5V Radeon card work in Mediator1200TX
3) Will a 3.3V Radeon card damage the host or itself in an A4000?
4) Will a 5V Radeon card damage the host or itself in an A1200?
5) If it's not in the product specs, can one look at a Radeon card and tell if it's 3.3V or 5V?
6) Which kind of Radeon card is it the Efika uses, which one has common ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arnljot

Radeon clarifications.

Please correct what's wrong here, or if it by some strange force in the universe is correct - then confirm:

1) Mediator 1200TX has 3.3V. This enables it to run the more common 3.3V Radeon 92xx cards.
2) Amiga4000 Mediator models have 5V, thus needing special cards which convert 5V to 3.3V.


New questions:
1) Are the two statements above correct.
2) Will a 5V Radeon card work in Mediator1200TX
3) Will a 3.3V Radeon card damage the host or itself in an A4000?
4) Will a 5V Radeon card damage the host or itself in an A1200?
5) If it's not in the product specs, can one look at a Radeon card and tell if it's 3.3V or 5V?
6) Which kind of Radeon card is it the Efika uses, which one has common ground.

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1) Correct!
2) Incorrect, no way to make a 5V busboard work with 3.3V devices (lack of power supply feed).
2b) Probably not, the driver is written intended for the 3.3V version. Must test to know, although 5V versions are dead slow.
3) Nope, they simply will not work (lack of power supply).
5) Same as above.
6) Radeon 9200. PCI or AGP. AGP with a special gender converter. This converter will not work with any other PCI solution, even PC!

But then in regards to A4000 w/Mediator, what kind of Radeon is it Elbox is now giving away with new sales? They also have it in their webshop.

And why does not cards with the combo connector (5V & 3.3V) card work in the A4000 mediators?

:thanks: Btw rkauer :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arnljot

But then in regards to A4000 w/Mediator, what kind of Radeon is it Elbox is now giving away with new sales? They also have it in their webshop.

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Radeon 9250 3.3V, ready for A1200TX MediTators...

Quote:

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And why does not cards with the combo connector (5V & 3.3V) card work in the A4000 mediators?
:thanks: Btw rkauer :)

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Combo? 3.3V boards don't work in common 5V pure PCI slots. Remember those boards don't have level-shifters. Even if you hook an adapter over the 5V PCI slot to provide 3.3V, then the height will stop the board to physically fit.

Or by combo you mean cards that can be fitted in more than one way? I never saw a PCI 5V / PCI 3.3V "combo" board in my live. Yes, I can be wrong in this. Ask Alexh.

So you are saying that Elbox is bundling the A4000 Mediator with a PCI Radeon which will not work with it?

For reference in discussions:
http://www.arnljot.com/images/800pxPCI_Keying.jpg

Now, the connector on my Voodoo:
http://www.arnljot.com/images/voodoo3connector.jpg

So, according to the chart it's a "Universal (3.3V & 5V) 32-bit PCI Card".

Now, to the connectors:
Mediator 4000 PCI slots:
http://www.arnljot.com/images/mediator4000slot.jpg

Looking at this and the chart, it seems that with the smaller slot away from the back makes it a 5V 32Bit PCI slot.

GRex 4000D Slots:
http://www.arnljot.com/images/grex4000slot.jpg

Also here we see that the notch, or tinier slot is away from the back. Again a 5V 32bit PCI slot.

Elbox info:
Mediator PCI 3/4000T + FREE Radeon 9250 gfx card

And here:
Radeon 9250/128MB 5V PCI card

Now, when I said "combo cards" I meant those showed in the illustration as "Universal", obviously the Voodoo is universal. Why are the Universal Radeon cards not working?

So, are Elbox selling working 5V Radeons to Mediator 4000 users, or is it a card that can be used as a coaster?

Now, if there is a Radeon card that work with the A4000 Mediator.

Could this PowerColor 9250 (model/part: R92P-LC3/R9250)
http://www.arnljot.com/images/powercolor2.jpg

Now, I'm not asking for the safest bet. But is Elbox's card the only bet?

Those are not "universal" 3.3V cards. Such thing doesn't exists. Those are Radeon 9250 5V cards, and probably will work with unmodified (read: old) Mediators.

Don't know if earlier LT4 version of Med work with Radeons, even using the correct driver. Trial and error.

I understand that the Radeon in my previous post is a 5V card.

In my post with my Voodoo card, I was asking about card with the "universal" plug. 32-bit with two notches. Why doesn't those cards work in Mediators?

Also, is there a way to tell if my Mediator 4000 is "old/unmodified", also what modifications are we talking about here?

Here is a clarification on Mediator models from Elbox:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by support@elbox.com

Mediator SX and TX have both power buses: 3.3V and 5V.
All other Mediator models have 5V power bus only.

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Cards that runs with 5V are keyed to be plugged in 5V and "universal" PCI slots, but not in 3.3V-only slots. You'll not fry anything trying it in an old Mediator. Worst case scenario the board will not work.

Will a 3.3V card fit in an amiga 5V slot? And would the 3.3V card take damage?

It is impossible to fit a 3.3V-only device into a 5V PCI slot. If was not for the protection keyed notch, the card would be fried instantly.

/....Kin sniggers.... :mrgreen:

It's the kinda question you wish you could take back :)

Bit like, "rubbing it hard" eh! :lol:

Kin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Bit like, "rubbing it hard" eh! :lol:

Kin

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I rarely if ever regret my rubbing :mrgreen:

I hope not too! :mrgreen:

Your score of questions you wish you could take back are alarmingly high though!

The Star Wars Premiere being your lastest fracas! :ROTFLOL2:

Kin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Your score of questions you wish you could take back are alarmingly high though!

The Star Wars Premiere being your lastest fracas! :ROTFLOL2:

---

Now you are mixing up questions and statements :thumbsup2:

Proving one thing! - AmiBay can be infectious! :laugh:

Kin

Btw, I've received updates from Elbox for my mediator software and also I've ordered a Radeon 5V card from them - complete with assurances that it'll work on the Mediator.

Now it's the excellence of Radeon9250 vs Working Warp3d on the Voodo3 3000. Where's the vox populi?

The Radeon is a difficult one to configure from what I hear & I have no experience of it myself. Afaik & understand, the Voodoo is the faster of the two!

Under Warp & for what it's worth, I really couldn't comment.

Kin

The voodoo is faster than the Radeon?? That must surely be driver.

But when it comes to Warp3d support I understand it's only available on the Voodoo due to grievances between Elbox and the warp developers. Perhaps even on just some versions?

I was looking for the vgr link, but archive.org is down right now.

Driver or not, the Radeon has terrible support RE drivers, even by todays standards with 4870 X2 & GTX295 comparisons. STB (Voodoo) were bought out by nVidia some years ago & was a shame in some respects.
Voodoo 6 had more memory Bandwith than nVidias ti 4800 Graphics cards. Considering the voodoo used SD ram & nVidia's ti 4800 series had DDR2, you still have to think nVidia lost the plot somewhere, particulary in face of Voodoo SLI (Scan Line Interleaving) & nVidias poor effort of SLI (Scaleable Link Interface).
Hardly scaleable at all untill the GeForce 9600 cards appeared & now much better with the 200 series. Still CPU bound though & yet GPU's were not suppose to require CPU input to perform.
Funny how the Industry gets away with these lies & trip me off on a rambling waffle. :roll:

That aside, good luck setting the Radeon up. Getting it to work is one thing, but configuring the Software to acheive the best display possible is a nightmare & you could end blowing your Monitor to bits if not carefully observing your Monitors capabilities.

Kin

The card arrived today. It seems to be a pretty standard sapphire card, allthoug beefier than anyother Radeon PCI card I've seen.

By this I mean that it doesn't seem to be hacked or altered in anyway by Elbox, and googling for it's SKU, PN and/or Name does only give up two interesing hits. One is for a card with matching PN but different picture. One is for a card with maching name and picture but different SKU.

Annieehju... I'll be playing with this soon, and will report back on what I find.

Voodoos are better since best, well-proven drivers. Poor Linux drivers are the problem with the Radeon card, afaik. :/

I know that Voodoo's are better due to the mature drivers.

But here's my reasoning for buying the Radeon:

1) It has more memory. 128MB vs. 16MB, this should in theory mean more colors and bigger resolutions.
2) It's a new card, so it should run cooler. This is a major point. The Voodoo3000 is useless it runs so hot. I've confirmed this with two other cards, running them in a PC too. This makes four cards in total. Talking with a "WinIntel" friend of mine has it confirmed. Historically these cards needs extra cooling, passive cooling on the Voodoo3 3000 is not enough. However the Voodoo3 2000 should be a peach and a cool customer.
3) It can be done, so it has to be tested and reported on to the community! :)

Atm I'm using one laptop to prepare a DVD with AROS and a CF card for the Mediator A4000. I'll try to work with one hand on AROS and the other hand on Radeon and Mediator :-)

I can't tell since I have a Voodoo 3 3000 (32Mb). But it runs hotter than an overclocked XC 040. :woot:

I had to install two fans to cool it down and had to made the power regulator cooler, too.

Other than that and the Voodoo become nuclear! :thumbsdown:

How did u cool the power regulator?

Arnljot,

It isn't the Voodoo chip itself that gets hot. Its the damned Voltage Regulator that does. The heatsink that is bolted to the Reg will take your skin off, it gets that hot! :shock:
All Voodoo 3000 Cards are passively cooled by default, including AGP variants.

Kin

So what to do Kin?

Put a Fan on the Voodoo Chip Heatsink to disperse the heat generated on the Regulator! :thumbsup:

Or a small Fan in the Case side to blow over the Voodoo card itself. :wink:

Kin