Dos games slow on Pentium2 / XP - Help!

I have an old Compaq Armada laptop, its a Pentium 2 333mhz with 196mb ram.

Its running XP. But when i play Doom on it the sound is choppy and once there is some action the game gets really choppy too.

I'm playing it on a command prompt. It shouldnt be slow because Doom is old and designed for 486 machines with 8 or 16mb ram.

Hell, at the moment Doom runs better on my A1200 :o

Anything I can check ?

You're running Doom on a P2/333 in a command prompt in XP?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slk486

You're running Doom on a P2/333 in a command prompt in XP?

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Err yes... Is that bad ?

With XP running in the background and using the passthrough sound driver, it's no surprise it runs slowly :) Pure DOS will be much better. A command prompt in XP has to emulate and virtualize a lot of DOS stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slk486

With XP running in the background and using the passthrough sound driver, it's no surprise it runs slowly :) Pure DOS will be much better. A command prompt in XP has to emulate and virtualize a lot of DOS stuff.

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Oh ok.... How can i get DOS games to run well without having to install 98 ?

I dont think XP lets you "shutdown to DOS" like 98 did

the easiest thing (assuming it has a floppy drive) would be a dos boot disk.

a p2/333 w/192mb ram is only slightly better than the min spec for really even running winxp (i have my old p3-550 w/384mb running XP and even it is choppy on a lot of things)

the system itself would probably be better suited to 98se, especially if you want to run DOS stuff

I agree.

DosBOX?

Although, the main problem here is mixing a too-new OS with too-old tech.

When the PII first appeared, Win98 was only just on the horizon, so just this OS itself is a bit of a stretch for this CPU/system.

If you're desperate to keep the hardware, then I'd drop down to Win98 Second Edition...

Thanks guys... I'm persuaded to go back to Windows 98SE.

Yes the system is very old. The sticker on it says Designed for Windows 95 hahaha

---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:25 ----------

Can someone help me ?

I am trying to re-install Windows 98SE CD (Bootable) but when i reset the computer with the cd inside it says "INVALID SYSTEM DISK - Replace the disk, and then press any key"

If i press a key it just boots up to XP.

There is no disk drive (I have a multibay with choice of either disk drive or dvd drive).

I had this problem once before with Windows 98 and forgot how i solved it. Maybe because the HD is formatted NTFS ? I realkly forgot how i fixed it.

XP CD boots up fine

Hi,

yes, your Win98 setup disk will not understand the formatting of your NTFS Harddrive, which is why you see this error.

The formatting needs removing before you can install Win98.

See this article for help...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314052

I formatted the Hard drive before "installing" XP as FAT32 but still saying Invalid System disk with the Win98SE cd.

Well, if you've checked the formatting and it's definitely FAT32, then is it caused by a scratched/dirty install CD..?

what size is the drive?

I think 8 or 10gb

doesn't matter...

I cant do it.... It will boot fine of the Windows XP cd but I tried 2 98SE cd's and one normal Win 98 cd and always says the same thing about Invalid System Disc.

The hard drive works fine - I installed XP on it 3 times in 2 days
The CDROM/DVD drive is obviously fine
I tried 3 Windows 98 CD's as i said above.

I am totally lost here.

I cannot really work with Boot disks because:

A: I dont have a Win 98 Boot disk
B: My PC doesnt have a disk drive
C: My laptop (which i want to install 98 on) has 1 bay. If i use my (probably broken) disk drive for it i would mean that the cdrom drive will not be attatched.

---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

I can boot with a Linux Live CD... Maybe i can do something from there ?

EDIT

Thank you for your answer.

I am downloading UBC and also the unofficial service pack 3 update (21mb) like you said and hopefully if it downloads quick enough i will try it tonight before bed though its getting late.

Will keep you posted :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KieranD212

Okay let me help you out here as i have 2 Windows 98SE systems. I have a AMD K6-2 @ 500mhz and a 300mhz Pentium II.

Windows XP is based on NT so it does not have DOS at all, where as Windows 98SE is built upon windows 9x which is built upon full DOS.

If your going to run Windows 98SE get the unofficial service pack 3 as it is tremendous as it adds in all of the updates that where available for Windows 98, also adds in better support for USB devices among other things.

Windows 98 wont install over XP, can't remember if you use a boot disk or the cd to format your HDD. Your better to just format the drive using something like UBCD (Ultimate Boot CD) which is a bootable CD that has many utilities that can be run without any operating system installed. I use it quite a bit for my older systems.

Alternatively you could install FreeDOS from a CD and just run that.

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I thought you needed the Windows 98SE Startup disk first to load DOS with the CDROM drivers and then install the WIN98SE CD from that point onwards??

Apparently the Win98SE Startup disk didn't necessarily recognise all makes of CDROM drivers either...

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:11 ----------

Full instructions here.....


http://support.microsoft.com/kb/221829


:thumbsup:

Ultimate Boot CD booted fine.

I formatted the hard drive using UBCD and it is FAT32 and empty.

But it is still saying Invalid System Disk Replace the disk and then press any key

The windows 98 cd (if it's an original) is bootable. It contains the startup disc and will boot into dos with CDROM drivers.

What I usually do is boot from the disc and choose boot with CDROM drivers.

At the dos prompt go through the fdisk routine.

Reboot the system and boot from the cd again

At the dos prompt, format the drive with the command format c:

I then copy the win98 cd to a directory on the hdd which makes the install slightly faster and removes the need to insert the disc when installing drivers.

You can do that by typing mkdir win98 at the dos prompt (which should still show c:\ as the selected drive)

Then switch to the CDROM drive (usually d:\) and cd to the win98 directory

Then type copy *.* c:\win98\

Once copying is finished you can run the setup from the hdd by typing c:\win98\setup.exe if you want to skip the initial scandisk check use the switch /is

So it would be

Fdisk
Format c:
Mkdir win98
D:
Cd win98
Copy *.* c:\win98\
C:
Cd win98
Setup.exe or setup.exe /is

That would be my way of doing at least

It is possible that that was the way (sort of) that I did it before.

I am guessing that since I already deleted the partition using Fdisk and formatted the drive what I can do is boot with the UBCD and then copy the contents from the Win98 CD over to the HD and install.

That is my only choice as boot (floppy) disk is out of the question for me.

Will try it out tomorrow as its late dammit

Cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrappysphinx

The windows 98 cd (if it's an original) is bootable. It contains the startup disc and will boot into dos with CDROM drivers.

What I usually do is boot from the disc and choose boot with CDROM drivers.

At the dos prompt go through the fdisk routine.

Reboot the system and boot from the cd again

At the dos prompt, format the drive with the command format c:

I then copy the win98 cd to a directory on the hdd which makes the install slightly faster and removes the need to insert the disc when installing drivers.

You can do that by typing mkdir win98 at the dos prompt (which should still show c:\ as the selected drive)

Then switch to the CDROM drive (usually d:\) and cd to the win98 directory

Then type copy *.* c:\win98\

Once copying is finished you can run the setup from the hdd by typing c:\win98\setup.exe if you want to skip the initial scandisk check use the switch /is

So it would be

Fdisk
Format c:
Mkdir win98
D:
Cd win98
Copy *.* c:\win98\
C:
Cd win98
Setup.exe or setup.exe /is

That would be my way of doing at least

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I think this is happening because the Startup Floppy is missing.
Without the CDROM driver drivers that the Startup Floppy loads on bootup the computer is just ignoring the CDROM drive and going straight to the hard drive which is just blank at the moment.

From the article I posted a linky to...


After you partition and format your hard disk, you can install Windows 98:

1. Insert the Windows 98 Startup disk in the floppy disk drive, and then restart your computer.
2. When the Windows 98 Startup menu is displayed, choose the Start computer with CD-ROM support option, and then press ENTER.
3. If CD-ROM support is provided by the generic drivers on the Startup disk, you receive one of the following messages, where X is the drive letter that is assigned to your CD-ROM drive: Drive X: = Driver MSCD001
   
   Drive X: = Driver OEMCD001
   NOTE: If your CD-ROM drive is not available after you boot from the Windows 98 Startup disk, install the CD-ROM drivers that are included with your CD-ROM drive. For information about how to obtain and install the most current driver for your CD-ROM drive, view the documentation that is included with your device, or contact your hardware manufacturer.
   
   
4. Insert the Windows 98 CD-ROM in the CD-ROM drive, type the following command at a command prompt, and then press ENTERX:\setup
   where X is the drive letter that is assigned to your CD-ROM drive.

But the windows 98 cd, if it's an original, is bootable (I.e. It has the boot floppy built in to the disk). The bios is capable of booting from cd of course because it boots the UBCD and his xp disc which leads me to believe his windows 98 cd is either a backup (thereby missing the boot files), a really old non bootable version (I've not found one in my time that's not been bootable, 95 wasn't but 98 was always) or his disc is damaged in some way.

Just one more thing, have you checked the bios settings to make sure the CDROM is first in the boot order. I know xp discs will boot automatically if the hdd is blank but I'm not sure windows 98 does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrappysphinx

But the windows 98 cd, if it's an original, is bootable (I.e. It has the boot floppy built in to the disk). The bios is capable of booting from cd of course because it boots the UBCD and his xp disc which leads me to believe his windows 98 cd is either a backup (thereby missing the boot files), a really old non bootable version (I've not found one in my time that's not been bootable, 95 wasn't but 98 was always) or his disc is damaged in some way.

Just one more thing, have you checked the bios settings to make sure the CDROM is first in the boot order. I know xp discs will boot automatically if the hdd is blank but I'm not sure windows 98 does.

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It appears that some weren't...

http://www.ntcompatible.com/How_do_I...OM_t23157.html


http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...98-Bootable-CD

EDIT

Well boot from cd is fine for sure. I checked the bios settings and both XP and Ultimate boot cd and Linux live cd all boot fine from cd.

Are you saying I could boot from say Ultimate Boot CD and go into freedos and remove UBCD, insert Win98 cd and run setup ?

Sounds worth a try

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ptp170

It appears that some weren't...

http://www.ntcompatible.com/How_do_I...OM_t23157.html


http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...98-Bootable-CD

---

So it does. I've had multiple copies of 98 and 98se (both original and backup) and never found a non bootable one. Guess I must just have been lucky :lol:

@dougal, if you can download isobuster (just the trial version will do) on another PC you can insert your 98 cd and if it's a bootable disc you will see the boot file

I.e.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1...otdetails1.gif

Think I've solved the confusion...

"Windows 98SE OEM Versions booted from the CD, Windows 98SE Retail did not and such that they came with a boot floppy."

then when you'd got all that installed.....as there is no longer update support for 98 from microsoft...you might want to install...

the Unofficial Windows 98SE Service Pack 2.1a :P

http://www.softpedia.com/progDownloa...load-9065.html

just thought i'd update this as apparently there was a newer version released a little bit ago (3.32)

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...vice_pack.html

Ok.... soooo, i did this:

Loaded UBCD
Went into drive T: (CDROM) with Win98 CD inside the drive
Try running setup /is

It says "Cannot start Windows in standard mode." "Make sure you have installed HIMEM.SYS and that you have enough extended memory for it"

Same if i copy Win98 folder to C: and run it from there

If i type "MEM"

Conventional Total: 627K - Free 529K
Upper total total: 0k - Free 0K
Reserved total: 397K - Free 0K
XMS (Extended) Total: 179,416K Free: 157,698K

---------- Post added at 08:12 ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 ----------

The 98SE CD is bootable ... i checked in ISOBUSTER

If your 98 cds are from the non-booting batch as descrived above, your solution should be remastering the cd

For example:

-Find a windows 98 boot/install floppy. IMG/IMA image dump should be fine.
-Copy the content of the cd to a folder on other PC.
-Use adecuate cd burning software (Nero, etc) to create new bootable cd
-Use the win98 boot floppy image to feed the boot sector of the cd.
-Use the copied content to replicate the original CD file structure of the win98 cd
-Burn and test :thumbsup:

On the other hand... you where launching the DOS Doom with pc speaker audio? Where you using the vdmsound driver? It's an upgrade for the NT virtual Dos machine for SB16 emulation (joystick and midi also) http://sourceforge.net/projects/vdmsound/

If i can get past that error of "cannot start windows in standard mode" i would be good to go.

what i do, if you have a floppy disk drive

boot win98se startup floppy
pick "boot with cdrom support"

wait....

fdisk and setup drive fat32 if not already done making sure drive is "Active".

format c: /q /s
mkdir c:\win98se
d: (if thats your cdrom drive letter)
cd win98
copy . c:\win98se

reboot without floppy disk or cd in drive

at the dos prompt (you boot off hdd)
cd win98se
setup

after windows is installed I do a couple of things.

1st I edit the "c:\msdos.sys"
you will have to boot to dosprompt
cd \
attrib msdos.sys -s -r -h
edit msdos.sys

I change:-

BootGUI=1 to BootGUI=0 so windows does not autoboot (you have to type "win" to load windows)
Logo=1 to Logo=0 stop the loading animation screen so you can see dos loading drivers etc.

exit and save
attrib msdos.sys +s +R +H

I then edited my config.sys and autoexec.bat files and created a multi menu.
1 was to boot 98
2 was to boot dos with XMS, cdrom, mouse,sound etc
3 was to boot dos with EMS, cdrom,mouse,sound etc

good info here
http://www.knowplace.org/pages/morgu...ting_howto.php

good luck :)

I cannot format C: as system disk because it keeps saying it cannot find kernel.sys

This is becoming more hassle than its worth but now it must be done

As I have understod, floppy drive and cdrom drive are swapable, but not shure if floppy drive is also missing.

In case got the floppy drive, there is no way to boot floppy and load cdrom drives, then use cdrom but those fancy "after autoexect" .sys loaders.

Other way is to boot floppy, fdism and format C:, SYS A: C:, XCOPY /D A:\ C:\ , fit the cdrom and boot

If not got floppy drive, remaster the win98 cdrom as I told before or make a win98floppy based boot cd for the format sys xcopy stuff, then reboot from floppy D:, cd Win98, install.exe

Also I think that floppy based cdrom boot don't need the boot cdrom in drive. It is ramloaded... should be safe to swap to win98 cd after booting. If not, sys and xcopy to c: and reboot :thumbsup:

@Sardine

I did manage to format c as a system bootable drive and copied Win98 folder to C:

Booted and run setup.exe

It comes to Windows98 Setup but says "Windows 98 requires a computer with at least 16MB of memory"

from all i understand, he's going to need a proper booting Win98SE disc...

or at the barest minimum, Win98SE installation files on the harddrive and a bootable DOS CD configured to install himem/emm386 (or to SYS the hard-drive and install himem/emm386 in the config.sys setup)

(emm386 may not even be necessary, i can't quite recall, but himem.sys is....)

also bear in mind that with 98 you are going back to DOS...which means if you want sound and cd in straight dos you'll need their drivers. (and will need windows drivers for sound...and probably video drivers unless you are fine with generic (s)vga)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaviorX

from all i understand, he's going to need a proper booting Win98SE disc...

or at the barest minimum Win98SE installation files on the harddrive and a bootable DOS CD configured to install himem/emm386

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Can't i do this with Ultimate Boot CD ?

download the freedos cd

http://www.freedos.org/download/

this should be all you need to get to the point where you can install 98 (with 98 install on the harddrive)

i personally recommend creating 2 partitions on the harddrive..a main one (c) for your OS and a small second one (d) to hold just the win98 install stuff then you can reformat c with impunity without having to re-copy the 98 install files

(this will also be useful later when win98 gets corrupted..which is inevitable....)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dougal

@Sardine

I did manage to format c as a system bootable drive and copied Win98 folder to C:

Booted and run setup.exe

It comes to Windows98 Setup but says "Windows 98 requires a computer with at least 16MB of memory"

---

Try typing:

setup /im


instead....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ptp170

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dougal

@Sardine

I did manage to format c as a system bootable drive and copied Win98 folder to C:

Booted and run setup.exe

It comes to Windows98 Setup but says "Windows 98 requires a computer with at least 16MB of memory"

---

Try typing:

setup /im


instead....

---

Tried... It doesnt help :(

needs a memory manager installed...can't see the extended ram (i am assuming)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaviorX

needs a memory manager installed...can't see the extended ram (i am assuming)

---

I type "MEM" and this is what i have free:

Conventional: 538K
Upper: 0K
Reserved: 0K
Extended (XMS): 156,933K
Total: 157,471K

Total Expanded (EMS) 32M
Free Expanded (EMS) 32M

well, the computer clearly has enough ram..and it is seen...

i am pretty sure installing himem.sys would solve win98's complaining...

(although it probably shouldn't even be complaining, it has its own memory managers, it just isn't very smart)

this site (which i had forgotten about) also has some configured boot cds that might be helpful

http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaviorX

well, the computer clearly has enough ram..and it is seen...

i am pretty sure installing himem.sys would solve win98's complaining...

(although it probably shouldn't even be complaining, it has its own memory managers, it just isn't very smart)

this site (which i had forgotten about) also has some configured boot cds that might be helpful

http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html

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Every WIn98 boot disc ISO i downloaded including this does not work. It says Invalid System disk again

very strange, at least one should work you would think...

i'll assume that when you burn them you are burning to proper CD media and not DVDRs... (although that should fail anyways)

also...this is an Armada...1700..?

Just downloaded and tried the win98se disc from there on my Compaq Presario P2-266, it gives me invalid system disc also...

interestingly...my Compaq (although it doesnt specifically have bios settings for booting from cd, it attempts to on bootup anyways) doesnt recognise that disc as a system disk....recognizes my SpinRite 6.0 (FreeDOS) disc as a boot disk, but wont boot...but boots fine from its own Recovery CD as well as my Windows XP disc

it also fails using my bootable Win98SE disk (non-system disk failure)

i wonder if this is a Compaq problem....

the 95b one is at least recognised for me (tho it doesnt boot)

(the 6.22 boot disk also gives me a non-system disk error, as is the 5.0 one)

my 'home-made' DOS6.22/Windows3.11 disc is recognised but won't boot....

i am beginning to suspect it wasnt really meant to boot from anything but its own recovery CD

What is strange is that it boots with cd's of XP, Ultimate Boot CD and Linux.

The model is Armada 7400 (Pentium II 333Mhz with 196MB ram). I think its original OS is Win95 as that what the sticker is of on it. But i bought it with Windows 98 and had upgraded it to XP as soon as i bought it.

I had recently (6 months?) ago managed to install Win 98 but i forgot how and stupidly upgraded to XP then remembered that it was so slow.

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

I dont know if it helps in any way but the hard drive has 2 partitions. A tiny one holds some stuff of compaq i think bios related. That i did not format or remove but it shouldnt have any effect on an installation.

yep...mine boots nicely from Windows NT 4.0 Workstation...

boots from NT (which XP is 'technically', uses the same boot method in any case, NTLDR)

just doesn't like DOS.....

(just tried to create an Ultimate Boot CD, and it told me it couldnt find c:\windows\i386\setupldr.bin so it uses NT as well)

Try disconnecting the HDD and see if it will boot from the CD then. If so, then the partition table might be confusing it.