Faulty Amiga 3000

So I've just gotten a hold of an A3000, but sadly the poor girl needs some attention.

When you power it up, the screen goes dark grey/medium grey/light grey perpetually. It looks almost as if it's just rebooting constantly. Any advice on what could be the cause, and what I can do to investigate?

The battery area looks to be fine, no signs of leakage there, but the case is very battered. I guess it's possible it's just an un-seated custom chip, but it could be something more-serious.

Any advice appreciated. :-)

Try re-seating the ROM chip and if there are any Zorro cards, remove them.
If no luck, keep reseating the CPU card and clean the contacts, if still nothing then check the caps for leakage.

Best of luck mate, I wish I had an A3000, working or not. :(

P.s. If you have a spare CPU card, give that a go too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tokyoracer

Try re-seating the ROM chip and if there are any Zorro cards, remove them.
If no luck, keep reseating the CPU card and clean the contacts, if still nothing then check the caps for leakage.

Best of luck mate, I wish I had an A3000, working or not. :(

---

CPU card? Ha! I'm using the on-board '030. And no Zorro cards yet, they come later, when the machine /actually/ works. :-)

can't the A3000 boot kickstarts from disk?

is there a jumper for this...

I dont actually own an A3000.... yet....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zetr0

can't the A3000 boot kickstarts from disk?

is there a jumper for this...

I dont actually own an A3000.... yet....

---

This is a later-model A3000, so I *think* it's got Kickstart 2.04 ROMs, rather than the crazy 1.4 MetaKick ROMs. That said, I can't say for sure.

It's a Rev 9.2 motherboard with 25MHz 68030/68882 on-board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndyLandy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tokyoracer

Try re-seating the ROM chip and if there are any Zorro cards, remove them.
If no luck, keep reseating the CPU card and clean the contacts, if still nothing then check the caps for leakage.

Best of luck mate, I wish I had an A3000, working or not. :(

---

CPU card? Ha! I'm using the on-board '030. And no Zorro cards yet, they come later, when the machine /actually/ works. :-)

---

Oh yeah, it's onboard isn't it. . . Sorry. :roll:

Try the other suggestions though.

try checking the power supply?

Move the tick jumper from external to video.

If no avail, chances are one of the TTL latches are fubbared. More on this problem later.

BTW: from what I know, the last motherboard version (yours is the 9.2, so it is the latest one) only came with the 2.04 ROM.

Reseat the daughter card, too.

^^^^^^

The Daughter card being the ZORRO riser. Also check for leaking caps, aka Sweaty looking tops or dull/furry contacts to the mobo. ;)

Be careful re-seating the Custom chips which are socketed. There is a lot of flex between the chassis mounts. Tbh, it's best done out of the chassis on a suitable anti-static suface.

Kin

PS. Is the Caps lock key doing any blinking routines? If not, what happens if you press the Caps lock key every second? - Does it stop responding? - ie, staying on or off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

^^^^^^

The Daughter card being the ZORRO riser. Also check for leaking caps, aka Sweaty looking tops or dull/furry contacts to the mobo. ;)

Be careful re-seating the Custom chips which are socketed. There is a lot of flex between the chassis mounts. Tbh, it's best done out of the chassis on a suitable anti-static suface.

Kin

PS. Is the Caps lock key doing any blinking routines? If not, what happens if you press the Caps lock key every second? - Does it stop responding? - ie, staying on or off.

---

Rattling the caps lock key eventually causes it to stick in the off position.
Hitting Ctrl+Amiga+Amiga resets this behaviour (So, clearly there's some semblance of Amiga behaviour under there) :-)

Oh dear! :( A locking Caps Lock key means the CPU has stopped responding.

I dare say you will be needing some capacitors replacing m8.

Kin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kin hell

Sweaty looking tops

---

That's bound to attract some comments......:whistle:

No wet T-shirt contests here, Kin; SdG won't allow them!!

:rofl3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Merlin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kin hell

Sweaty looking tops

---

That's bound to attract some comments......:whistle:

No wet T-shirt contests here, Kin; SdG won't allow them!!

:rofl3

---

I could only hope it would be with a "sausage free" comment. :mrgreen:

Kin

On an A3000???? Those capacitors are "common" trough-holes capacitors that are not affected by the SMD-only capacitors plague.

But sure they can dry internally, reducing the capacitance to a point when they don't do their part in the circuit.

My bet is power-relating (where the big capacitors inside the PSU can misbehave the machine) or bad connection.

A last (but not irrelevant) problem is a fried chip due overheating (common on the PAL chips and some few "F" TTL around the board).

Also the "tick" circuit inside the A3000 PSU is prone to failure, so an innocuous probe is move the tick jumper (J350) to video source (position 1-2) to see if the circuit is acting correctly.

^^^^^^

Just awesome m8. :nod:

The Caps Lock key locking up is definitely a CPU failure to respond though. So what of your comments above, could be the culprit?

Swapping PSU's is a right old job.

Kin

Swapping the under-powered PSU (only 135W !!!) for a micro-ATX 400W replacement and moving the tick source to video make wonders for the A3000.

That's the first thing the A3000 owner need to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rkauer

Swapping the under-powered PSU (only 135W !!!) for a micro-ATX 400W replacement and moving the tick source to video make wonders for the A3000.

That's the first thing the A3000 owner need to do.

---

@ rkauer

Can you post a link for AndyLandy to do this conversion? At least he's on the road to debugging this situation.

Kin

Why not?:)

Connecting a new PSU to an A3000

Thats better. :)

@ AndyLandy

Get it on m8y. :thumbsup:

Kin

OK, changing the TICK source wasn't enough to rectify the problem. :(

I'm not sure I have the necessary skills to do a PSU mod. Not sure where else to go at the moment. :(

If you don't know the history of the machine - which you probably don't - the first step before you do anything is a full visual inspection. Your eyes are the most basic and important troubleshooting tool you have.
Remove the motherboard, thoughly clean it with some air duster and/or a soft brush and with a bench magnifier or bright light inspect every inch of the board for any broken traces, leaking capacitors, mis-seated chips or generally anything that looks suspect..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zetr0

can't the A3000 boot kickstarts from disk?

is there a jumper for this...

I dont actually own an A3000.... yet....

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndyLandy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zetr0

can't the A3000 boot kickstarts from disk?

is there a jumper for this...

I dont actually own an A3000.... yet....

---

This is a later-model A3000, so I *think* it's got Kickstart 2.04 ROMs, rather than the crazy 1.4 MetaKick ROMs. That said, I can't say for sure.

It's a Rev 9.2 motherboard with 25MHz 68030/68882 on-board.

---

Only the A3000s with the beta Kickstart 1.3 ROMs will boot Kickstart from disk.

1.4 ROM, you meant.;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rkauer

1.4 ROM, you meant.;)

---

Yeah, I did ..... I seem to be typo'ing all over tha place today :oops:

OK, the motherboard actually looks to be in pretty good shape, although there's a lot of rust around the ports.

If the PSU is still the likely culprit (despite changing the TICK jumper) then I think the first step would be a plain ATX to A3000 adapter and I'll try it out of the case. If that works, I'll look to acquiring/modding a suitable replacement.

Anyone have such a cable spare? ;-)

OK, I've given the thing a good proper look, and it looks like it's battery corrosion. :-( The area around the battery isn't too bad, but under the battery is a different matter. I don't know how easily this can be rectified, I certainly don't have the skills.

So, I either send the board to someone for repair, or I sell on the other bits and junk the rest.

@Andy, If I were you I would just cut the battery clean it up with some alcohol and "ear cleaners" and post pics, so the more technical can take it up from there... There are no traces on top of the board, so it should be severe damage if that is the reason..

(I am sure my battery is off "floating" in the second ufloppy space..)

Maybe you'll save some $$.. My A3000 looks like old electronics type, (no smd) so it is an easy one to start with...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jvdbossc

@Andy, If I were you I would just cut the battery clean it up with some alcohol and "ear cleaners" and post pics, so the more technical can take it up from there... There are no traces on top of the board, so it should be severe damage if that is the reason..

---

Wise words:

http://www.proggle.net/%7Eandrew/download/front.jpg

http://www.proggle.net/%7Eandrew/download/back.jpg

Ouch... reminds me of how my dead A500 looked :(

Now that's a crying shame. :|

Have you neutralized the acid burn area?

Kin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Now that's a crying shame. :|

Have you neutralized the acid burn area?

Kin

---

It is rather. :-(

I've not done anything to neutralise the acid. I've given the whole area a good swabbing with Isopropyl alcohol, but that's all.

Is it worth applying something to neutralise the acid? What base would you recommend for the job? I suspect household bleach may be a bit drastic. :-)

I used concentrated lemon juice.
Left it over the affected area for about 5 minutes, then cleaned it all up & re-applied where needed.
After all acid residue was gone, I cleaned the area with alcohol.

By the looks of it, I recommend removing the affected ICs from the circuit, there's probably acid underneath them & on the inner side of their legs.

Lemon juice? Isn't that acidic, too? Or are the Amiga batteries actually alkaline?

Hmm to be honest I didnt verify the type of battery.
I simply did some tests on an old 386 motherboard (yuck!) with the same type of battery & the lemon juice did the job very well.
Vinegar will also work.

The most important thing is not to use too much, not leave it for very long, and make sure the cleaned area is 100% dry before attempting to power it up :)

I've used this method so far on A1200, A4000, A500+ and a few other things, all with great results.

Well, I guess it can't make it any worse :-)

I'll give that a go and let you know the results.

:thanks:

Battery leakage is alkaline, that's for sure. A mild acid will neutralize the residues, resulting in a salt, which then must be removed using water and then IPA (isopropylic alcohol) to speed the drying of the area.

I used vinegar to neautralise battery leak.

@ AndyLandy

How's it looking m8y? - Got any after pics yet?

Kin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

@ AndyLandy

How's it looking m8y? - Got any after pics yet?

Kin

---

How's this for an after-pic?

http://www.proggle.net/%7Eandrew/download/ksmenu.jpg

YAHOOOOO! SHE LIVES AGAIN! :woot:

You people are such wonderful, supportive and fantastic folks! Lemon juice on the Super Denise did the trick! Now I need to find a "SuperKickstart" disk!

:woot: :woot: :woot:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UberFreak

I used concentrated lemon juice.
Left it over the affected area for about 5 minutes, then cleaned it all up & re-applied where needed.
After all acid residue was gone, I cleaned the area with alcohol.

By the looks of it, I recommend removing the affected ICs from the circuit, there's probably acid underneath them & on the inner side of their legs.

---

You sir, are an absolute genius! You were spot-on, battery gunk was covering the legs of the Super Denise, so I popped her out, cleaned up the legs with some lemon juice (and the affected areas around the board, too) then applied some IPA to clean up the lemon juice. The old girl is back and alive once more! (And she now has a lemon-fresh zest to her!)

Way to go Andy! :thumbsup: I believe that's the way to go with the CV i'm looking to restore too, as pointed by our fellow Amibayers :)
Hope you enjoy the miggy!

I have a very good feeling about my A3000:) And of course a shared feeling with the party you are heading!!:p:)

One machine restored :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Does workbench boot after that? Mine has exactly the same 2.x screen but boots 3.1

Flipping heck Andy!! - What an amzing turn-around m8.

Awesome & then some! :thumbsup:

PM me RE: Super Kickstart Disks. ;)

Charlie

Nice job!
Glad I could help :)

OK, so she's still having some difficulties, poor girl.

I fired her up again and she'd gone back to the old flashing screen problems. Not to lose faith, I went back inside and had another go with the old lemon juice and IPA. Put everything back together again and fired her up. Working a treat once more. Successfully booted into Workbench 2.1 and prodded around a bit. She's got 2MB Chip and 4MB Fast.

Rebooted and power cycled a few times successfully, but after about 15 mins or so of use, I started getting graphical glitches and flickering. Eventually I started getting guru messages on reboot and finally we dropped back to the old flashing screen problems once more.

So, what do we suspect is wrong here? Do you think the Denise might be deaded? It seems strange that cleaning it up fixes things, but not for long. Now that I've seen the old girl boot into Workbench, I'm sure we must be able to get this fixed.

I think the next trick is going to be to steal the Denise from my A2000 and see how we get on with that.

Finally, is it worth leaving the Denise in some vinegar overnight to try and clean the legs up, or am I asking for trouble if I do that?

Check for overheating components. Are you testing with case open, good air circulation, fan blowing cool air?

Mine had a fan blowing air through the mount holes of the floppy drive strangly, maybe this is needed?

There could be acid residues you havent cleaned yet, especially UNDER components.

I fixed a PSU once which had a bad capacitor leak, I cleaned everything properly but the PSU shorted & died again after some minutes of work.
I had to de-solder all components on the circuit, until I found a small IC with acid underneath it (it was not visible from outside).
Cleaning that fixed the problem for good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UberFreak

There could be acid residues you havent cleaned yet, especially UNDER components.

I fixed a PSU once which had a bad capacitor leak, I cleaned everything properly but the PSU shorted & died again after some minutes of work.
I had to de-solder all components on the circuit, until I found a small IC with acid underneath it (it was not visible from outside).
Cleaning that fixed the problem for good.

---

That does sound likely. I can't imagine it's heat-related, since the machine has problems, even from cold boot. I've pulled Paula this time, too. She was in a right old mess! So, I've given her a once-over with the lemon juice and she's all beautiful again.

I had a spare OCS Denise lying around and dropped that in before doing anything else and the problem still occured, so I'm fairly confident that the A3000's Super Denise isn't the problem.

when you pull out socketed ICs, inspect the socket itself.
My A500+ had corrosion inside of several sockets, due to a bad battery leak.
I ended up replacing most of the sockets on the board.