Best IDE Cable Solution for A4000

I want to run three IDE devices in my A4000 - master IDE HD, slave CF HD fitted to rear PCI slot, and an optical drive. Currently I have the motherboard IDE interface connected to the main HD, and then a Tandem IDE card in a Zorro slot connected to the optical drive. What's the best way to connect the third device (CF PCI) to my setup? I believe each IDE interface can handle 2 devices, logically I would run the two HDs off one cable but they are quite far apart separated by the daughter board, and I haven't seen any IDE cables with 2 connectors far enough apart to reach. But of course I have the same problem with the Tandem, as the optical drive is also on the opposite side from where I want to fit the CF!

So what should I do? Can you get IDE cables with two connectors 20+ cm apart? If not do I need to buy a third IDE cable and use an adapter to connect it to one of the other IDE cables (and if so which one?) I obviously want to keep cables to a minimum, and I believe the Tandem card is not bootable so ideally both HDs should be running off the same cable (I might install OS 3.5 on a partition of the CF just to play around with it.)

i just make mine.if i know the distance between the connectors.

Get rid of the tandem IDE and get a 4 way IDE splitter then you can run 4 devices off the on board IDE using two cables you should be fine for distances.

I would run Main HDD and CD as Master/Slave on IDE channel 0 and then CF as Master on channel 1. You might need to patch IDEFix97 for the CF to work on the second channel, if you have problems you can always run HDD and CF as Master/Slave on channel 0 and then the CD on it's own on Channel 2.

And in all this you free up a zorro slot :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

And in all this you free up a zorro slot :)

---

Which you could then put in a SCSI HD card :thumbsup:

here is that adaptor steve was talking about.


http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=599

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roy_bates

here is that adaptor steve was talking about.


http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=599

---

Yep that's the one, they're nice and cheap as they are just a 4 way slitter, there's no need for buffering like on A1200 as the A4000's IDE is already buffered.

SCSI is awesome but I think you went down that route before and decided it was too complicated vs IDE?

Thanks for the suggestions so far. So as both of the IDE cables I currently have only have an inch or two between connectors, I at least need to buy another IDE cable with a wider 'spread' :lol:

Is there any advantage of using the IDE splitter over my Tandem card other than freeing up a Zorro slot? I don't have any Zorro cards apart from the Tandem. They seem to basically both do the same thing. Also it looks like all three interfaces on the Amigakit card are on the same side for some reason, so that must mean I would need a third cable?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

Thanks for the suggestions so far. So as both of the IDE cables I currently have only have an inch or two between connectors, I at least need to buy another IDE cable with a wider 'spread' :lol:

Is there any advantage of using the IDE splitter over my Tandem card other than freeing up a Zorro slot? I don't have any Zorro cards apart from the Tandem. They seem to basically both do the same thing. Also it looks like all three interfaces on the Amigakit card are on the same side for some reason, so that must mean I would need a third cable?

---

Yes you need to use a short cable to connect it to the Motherboard, just cut a bit off an existing IDE cable or make one up.

I've got loads of IDE cables if you want a couple just let me know! Or I'm sure if you ask Roy nicely he would make you up ones at the required leanth for a small fee to cover his time.

I'm not sure what speeds are from the Tandem but maybe slower as they're a Zorro II card, best suited to an A2000 which has no on board IDE.

Do IDE cables work in either direction? I think the 2 closest interfaces on my current cable would reach from the motherboard to the HD, which would leave the longer length to go over the daughter board to the CF PCI card.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

Thanks for the suggestions so far. So as both of the IDE cables I currently have only have an inch or two between connectors, I at least need to buy another IDE cable with a wider 'spread' :lol:

Is there any advantage of using the IDE splitter over my Tandem card other than freeing up a Zorro slot? I don't have any Zorro cards apart from the Tandem. They seem to basically both do the same thing. Also it looks like all three interfaces on the Amigakit card are on the same side for some reason, so that must mean I would need a third cable?

---

Yes you need to use a short cable to connect it to the Motherboard, just cut a bit off an existing IDE cable or make one up.

I've got loads of IDE cables if you want a couple just let me know! Or I'm sure if you ask Roy nicely he would make you up ones at the required leanth for a small fee to cover his time.

I'm not sure what speeds are from the Tandem but maybe slower as they're a Zorro II card, best suited to an A2000 which has no on board IDE.

---

I read, I think referring to the Buddha Flash in particualr, the Zorro II was limited to around 3.5Mb/s?

Not sure that the onboard IDE port would be any more efficient? Steve might have run some tests on the onboard A4k IDE in the past and have some results....Steve? :)

And I'm with Roy, I makem up if the standard ones are too long or short!

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

Do IDE cables work in either direction? I think the 2 closest interfaces on my current cable would reach from the motherboard to the HD, which would leave the longer length to go over the daughter board to the CF PCI card.

---

The IDE cables are simply a direct pin to pin connection. I think you are asking if you could use the long end or the short end at the mainboard connection? Yes....

I used to have a Buddha Flash but it never worked long enough to post any tests lol.

I ran a CDROM off my X-Surf for a while, again never posted any tests but it seemed to work well. I never really worried about speed for CD as long as it worked, I think all Amiga CD games need is 1x lol

I've now got my CDROM hooked up to my A4000 IDE, it's the only device on there as my HDD is hooked up to the SCSI on my WE040.

It works fine, I play CD Games with music (hooked up to my Toccata) I can do a speed test later if you like.

Slightly OT but still related, I've never got around to hooking up CD audio to the motherboard before. I know that it's the 3 pins by the audio output, and I need a cable like this:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNj...!9!~~60_57.JPG

But I can't see the corresponding connector on the back of my DVD drive:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTU4WDE2MD...TdNh5/$_57.JPG

Does my drive have a different audio out? Or did some not come with one?

4 pin one to the left on the picture :)

Cool thanks, as there's 1 extra pin, I don't suppose you have any idea which one is redundant?!

there are no redundant pins edd,the two middle ones are ground and connected together on the drive.

if you have the right cable one end should have a latch config so it only goes in one way on the drive.
most drives have the pinout stamped into the steel on the case as well so you can identify left from right audio out mate.


hope that helps.:)

OK thanks Roy, I'm guessing that means the 3 pin cable is no use though? Would have to bodge something.

no mate,the cable you have should be fine mate,the two middle pins are ground as ive said.

so, only one needs to be connected to the drive the grounds on the cable are twisted together mate(and joined on one pin).and are still connected.

@edd_jedi

If you would like an audio cable drop me a PM. I'm sure I've got a couple kicking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davideo

@edd_jedi

If you would like an audio cable drop me a PM. I'm sure I've got a couple kicking about.

---

Very kind of you to offer! But I can buy a new one from Ebay for a quid including postage so it's not worth your while even if I pay the postage :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davideo

@edd_jedi

If you would like an audio cable drop me a PM. I'm sure I've got a couple kicking about.

---

Very kind of you to offer! But I can buy a new one from Ebay for a quid including postage so it's not worth your while even if I pay the postage :lol:

---

No problem :)

Well, as usual nothing is as simple as it should be :picard

After much messing about swapping around IDE cables, jumpers etc I finally managed to get Workbench to recognise both the IDE HD and CF HD in HD Toolbox. It told me changes had been detected, great I thought. The changes were to the IDE drive (my system drive) which I thought made sense as it now had a jumper telling it to be master with a slave (the CF) attached. So I save the changes and reboot. Now my IDE drive no longer boots, even when I remove the CF card and master/slave jumper :mad: luckily the files are all still there (don't worry I have a backup too)

So first of all, what setting do I need to change in HDToolbox to make my IDE drive bootable again? I can't see anything obvious in any of the settings. And do I need to do anything in HD Toolbox to make the CF card a slave drive? I already have the jumper setting set to slave.

Also, it refuses to boot if I have both the IDE drive/CF card and the Tandem card with DVD-Rom connected! Any idea why that may be?

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a screenshot if it helps. Luckily I had the sense to take one before clicking 'save' in case I buggered it up!

- - - Updated - - -

Phew, think I've got it sorted. It seems the issue was that the CF card also had a partition set as DH0: on it, so they were conflicting at boot up. I have re-partitioned the CF card as a single drive as DH3: and my IDE system drive now boots again :) However, it will no longer 'cold boot', I have to reboot once the hard drive has got up to speed. It used to cold boot just fine. Is this because there is a quicker drive (the CF) attached? Is there any setting I can change to make the IDE drive cold boot?

Hi Ed, yeah it's probabaly the CF causing the need for a soft reboot. It's quite common for this to happen with CF cards. (Another CF or adapter might solve it)

However some CF adapters and HDD's just don't play nice together so it's good that you got it working and maybe if you can live with it just keep as is :)

DF0-3 are disk drives bud,i would avoid calling them that.

Sorry I meant DH0/DH3 :) Yeah the soft rebooting isn't the end of the world, I actually quite like the kickstart screen!

- - - Updated - - -

Back to my original question, still having trouble with the IDE cables. I have tried switching the cable around so that the shorter length goes from the MB to master and then the longer section goes to slave, but it just doesn't work. I get a solid HD light on the front no matter which way I connect everything up. So it doesn't seem like the earlier statement that they are bi-directional is true. Any idea why this might be - cable section lengths perhaps? Is that why all IDE cables seem to have a max. 6 inches slave length?

whats the total length of the cable bud? from end to end.

Maybe 30cm? It works fine with 2 devices connected the 'normal' way.

ah i see,you meant turning the cable the other way around.

Yes exactly - the motherboard is only 4 inches or so from the IDE drive, but the CF card is mounted in the PCI slots which are at least 8" away. I need a way of connecting both to the same cable.

You just need a 40 pin IDE cable made up with correct spacing of the middle connector so it fits near as perfect between the drives, I have unpicked a few 44 pin IDE cables and moved the middle connector but it is fiddly and you can break the fagile tabs that clamp them back together if not careful and you need the Clamp tool which I have to crimp them again.
I think Roy does them aswell, Amigakit will make any IDE cable up to your specifications and they are quite cheap

i do do them,i think it was mentioned.

i dont have the parts knocking around for cables,but there not exactly hard to get.
some ribbon cable and some idc connectors is all thats needed.

and sizes for tidy cable management.

unfortunately the only time i re-use cables is to shorten them,if i make custom cables i find its easier to get the ribbon new and just build them if they ar funny sizes.

with ide,i dont like to go beyond 60cm...about 24 inches.

its probably worth mentioning that some ide cables arnt all that good even at pio-0

Hi Ed, I have dozens of IDE cables, I will check if I have one with the correct spacing.

This IDE cable is a spare I have its ATA compatible, spacing is 6" & 12" so should be perfect so long as pin 1 is correct for your orientation of the drives
If you want it mail me

Thanks for the offers guys, appreciate it. Superduper - I'm not sure if that will work, I need more than 6" from the master to slave, more like 10". It's the motherboard to master that doesn't need to be long, 6" would do. I've already tried my 12"/4" cable in reverse and it doesn't seem to work.

@ Steve if you could mate that would be great :)

depends where the pin 1 stripe is on the cable I think its opposite to yours , looking at the 4000 from the top is the stripe to the left of the DVD drive ?, if it is then this cable will do :)

I found this thread on the subject:

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=227007

Lots of conflicting advice, and the last post even implies that it's essential that the section connecting 2 drives is not too long.

- - - Updated - - -

@superduper I'm not entirely sure what you mean, does this photo help?

there is some real crap in that thread you posted bud,take no notice of anything in it.

there was only one or two people who posted anything real or useful in the thread and people were saying it was false...

personally i would go from the motherboard to the drive(master) then to the cf adaptor(slave)
its up to you what you do though bud...
i never put a slave device before the master one.i just try to make the distance between the motherboard connector and first device longer than the distance between the devices themselves.but no longer than 60cm total length.
although i dont use real drives a cf's together.

on the drive there is a notch in the middle(if upwards on the drive) for the idc box connector, pin one(red stripe) is on the right.
the red stripe on the ribbon is always pin one.alot of drives even mark pin one on them for reference.

if you have the cd drive on its own on its own channel it should not matter if its master or slave.


i have seen two real drives on one cable that did not work together as master and slave in a certain order but did in another,because one was seen before the other and could not boot in the system,it was an amiga.
a soft reset was the only way to boot in that config.
unless it was drives of the same spin up speed or the slave was slower than the boot drive.

also a similar side effect when drives are used in a system that has a faster cpu than stock,under normal speeds the drive is fine,when its in a faster system the drive dont get recognized because the drive dont spin up fast enough to get seen when the system starts,after a soft reset it boots fine.

yeah looks like my cable is roughly same as yours so its a no starter :)

Totally agree with Roys post above, I have never put a slave before a master in a Computer setup cable wise, and I think Roys suggestion of mobo IDE to HDD to CF seems a good Idea to try.

And see if Steve comes up with a cable that will solve you probs otherwise just get one made up bud

I think as Steve originally suggested the best solution will be to run my IDE HD and DVD-Rom from the onboard IDE as they are both on the same side of the daughter board, and then use my Tandem card to run the CF as they are also on the same side so it will be a lot neater. So how do I go about configuring this with IDEFix? I tried connecting the CF to the tandem card, but 'find device' didn't pick it up. Also, if running the DVD-Rom as slave from onboard IDE, what do I need to do to the CD0 file in devs?

Hi Ed,

I suggested a 4Way IDE splitter and run them all off the Motherboard IDE.

I'm not sure if CF's work with the Tandem IDE, or maybe they are limited to 2gb. You'll need to have a Google.

Aaaargh, why is everything so bloody complicated!? :mad:

I've bought a longer (round) IDE cable, but all of the damned connectors have a pin hole covered! This is fine for my two drives, but not the motherboard IDE connector, that has a full set of pins. Why do some cables have a pin hole missing!?

- - - Updated - - -

In fact, having just looked on eBay at other IDE cables, they ALL seem to have the middle top pin connector blocked! But I just checked the Amiga Kit 4 way IDE and that also has the full set of pins like the Amiga motherboard :unsure: so is there some kind of special Amiga IDE cable with an extra pin hole that would have been handy to know about first!? :lol:

I think the blanked pin IDE cables are ATA spec so no good for your Amiga hence the blanking so you don't accidentally use them.

that pin is not used mate,you could just drill a hole where the blank is and should work.

if i had the parts i would make a set of cables its not hard.or i could get the cables and parts and just make them to length.
probably wont be cheaper,but they would fit...

EDIT: i dont get parts until a cable is needed mate as i order in bulk.hope that makes sense...

Really useful thread and came just at the right time as I have just got myself a lovely A4000. I might ask if I can buy a couple of those IDE cables you have when I see you on Saturday Steve if that is OK? I have just got myself that 4-Device IDE Interface from AmigaKit and want to do pretty much what you suggest with the 2 CF and one CD trick.

Unfortunately I don't have a drill :( the hunt continues...

you can lead a horse to water,oh well.

i cant say i didnt try,and try,and try again.:) to offer...

hey,steve.do you still think i should offer a service for custom cables?:lol:

Must have been lost in translation Roy, it looked to me like you really didn't want to :) maybe I read your posts wrong...

Anyway, just ordered another one from eBay that looks like it should do the trick.

no probs:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by manic23

Really useful thread and came just at the right time as I have just got myself a lovely A4000. I might ask if I can buy a couple of those IDE cables you have when I see you on Saturday Steve if that is OK? I have just got myself that 4-Device IDE Interface from AmigaKit and want to do pretty much what you suggest with the 2 CF and one CD trick.

---

You can help yourself to any from the box lol :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by manic23

Really useful thread and came just at the right time as I have just got myself a lovely A4000. I might ask if I can buy a couple of those IDE cables you have when I see you on Saturday Steve if that is OK? I have just got myself that 4-Device IDE Interface from AmigaKit and want to do pretty much what you suggest with the 2 CF and one CD trick.

---

You can help yourself to any from the box lol :)

---

Thanks Steve :)

Sorted :) I drilled a hole to allow the motherboard connector to fit, and all is well. The slave > master cable is only just long enough to reach over the daughter board, but with a bit of persuasion I got it all in. Not the neatest solution but it works :)

One final question, when I remove a CF card from the CF drive, the Amiga will boot to the Kickstart screen, but the HD won't boot, even after a soft reset. It's not the end of the world as I added the CF card as a backup/transfer drive so it won't often need to be removed, but it would be nice if the Amiga booted without it being present. Any idea why?