Selling half of Amiga collection includes GVP Tekmagic 060 and Blizzard 1230 mk4 cards

A500+ sold to iRetrOVolver

A2000 Keyboard sold to fabbie54

Waiting on Phylos who is first inline for HC+8, CD32, Vlab motion

A600 Sold to Kessu74

Orders shipped to iRetrOVolver, Fabbie54 and Hese

All packages now shipped, sorry for delay on the last couple as I needed to buy a couple of boxes as I ran out of strong ones.

Just got home from my work trip and my wife handed me the package.. first of all very good packaging.. kudos for that @ClusterUK

What did strike me immediately upon unpacking was the "tint" of the machine.. so I compared the images you shared with the ones I just took.. One I took in direct daylight and the other two under a white LED light (to exclude warm tinted light) and we are still talking day and night..

I hate to moan.. but I was paying for a non-yellowed Amiga 500 Plus machine.. Sure as hell I can go pay someone to do a retr0bright job for me.. but then I could have bought a yellowed one for less.. when we discussed the non-yellowed condition, it never came up to mention the pictures may have been a bit more flattering than the machine's true condition, so hence my comment here.

Hi, the pictures I took were in normal light and I never described it as in original perfect condition. It has slight ageing due to being around 30 years old but not yellowed and the keyboard was replaced with as perfect one as I could get and I gave you the perfectly working one but yellowed one. On top of this sending this to you cost me £22 for the new keyboard and £28 shipping from the £90 price. I think you got a nice Amiga 500 in very fair condition at a very fair price. However if you are unhappy then return it, I will deduct the shipping charge and refund the balance.

Hi,

I am not going to make huge deal out of this, but I did want to be very clear about that fact that the images you shared are, for whatever reason, not in line with what I see in front of me here.

I did ask you in a PM "Are the Mouse and PSU in the same non-yellowed/damaged condition?"

To which you responded "Cannot guarantee they are as nice as it is really the A500 that I am selling"

There was no need to include the extra keyboard, yet I appreciate your gesture since I can give it to someone in need as these do die over time.

In all honesty though.. I do feel that you could have mentioned there is slight discoloration on the casing as on my pictures you see that the label is brighter than the case.. on your images.. it looks perfect and you must have noticed that as well.

Returning the Amiga and pay both your shipping and mine is not an option.. just to be clear there.

If you download and look at this picture that was provided on page one you can see the A600 and A1200 both look very white and the A500 looks slightly darker inline with what you have received.

I am sorry it is not perfect white but I never claimed it was and I personally thought it was in a good condition for its age.

Final offer to resolve this fairly and let some one else have this nice machine. Return it and I will give you a full refund excluding the return post, I can do no more than that.

Steve

clusteruk said:

A2000 Keyboard sold to fabbie54

Click to expand...

Keyboard received. It's really in amazing condition. Thanks! I am leaving positive feedback!

To me the A500+ in the original pictured looks very clean, especially if you watch the video. (you can compare to background white objects)

no where has the seller said its "mint" or as new colour wise.

if I edit the exposure by 10% of the picture provided by iRetrOVolver it looks the same,

so what colour light did iRetrOVolver use ?? Daylight white or standard white bulb ? did clusteruk use the "auto" setting on his camera and it adjusted the exposure for him ??

in anycase from my point of view even from iRetrOVolver original picture for a 30yr old Amiga 500+ it's VERY clean and none or very minimal yellowing that I can't see in the photo's
all I see is the dull grey/tint of an A500+

Hi Steve.. as I said.. I am not going to make a huge ordeal out of this nor cause anyone issues. I merely expected a different condition.. anyhow.. it seems we have different views and that is okay too.

I spoke to someone local and member of the forum who offered to retrobright the top case for me, which will be about the same price as returning it and then having none.. waste of money then so better to fix the issue.

Again.. wasn't fishing for discounts or cause issues.. just was expressing my views and wanting a viable solution.

Thank you!
Marcel

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Sardine,

I was not going to make a huge deal but I felt it had to be said.. and I do want to be clear on some of the points/claims you make;

Sardine said:

To me the A500+ in the original pictured looks very clean, especially if you watch the video. (you can compare to background white objects)

Click to expand...

Discolouration of an Amiga 500 with the wide-label is easy to spot.. the label and case come in the same colour. The video/photo from ClusterUK give the impression there is NO discolouration. Take my picture and you clearly see it.

Sardine said:

no where has the seller said its "mint" or as new colour wise.

Click to expand...

Hence my PM as it is good practice to ASK to ENSURE you are satisfied in the end.. see my post.

Sardine said:

if I edit the exposure by 10% of the picture provided by iRetrOVolver it looks the same, so what colour light did iRetrOVolver use ?? Daylight white or standard white bulb ? did clusteruk use the "auto" setting on his camera and it adjusted the exposure for him ??

Click to expand...

As said, I used a clear white LED light and Daylight. Bulb made it look worse (obviously) but I wanted to show it in its idealist form.

Sardine said:

in anycase from my point of view even from iRetrOVolver original picture for a 30yr old Amiga 500+ it's VERY clean and none or very minimal yellowing that I can't see in the photo's - all I see is the dull grey/tint of an A500+

Click to expand...

That is totally besides the point. If you buy an old Aston Martin.. say 30 years old.. looks perfect on the images.. you discuss the paint work.. gets shipped over the pond.. paint work is not bad but not as discussed.. you gonna be OK you paid premium? Really? Well I find that a bit of an odd statement.

But anyhow.. again a lesson learned from buying online and thank you for your views.

Marcel

Send me the bill for the retrobright and I will pay if under shipping cost.

Steve

- - - Updated - - -

Hi

I did the photos by the window in daylight and used my Samsung Galaxy 7 on automatic setting.

Steve

Sardine said:

To me the A500+ in the original pictured looks very clean, especially if you watch the video. (you can compare to background white objects)

no where has the seller said its "mint" or as new colour wise.

if I edit the exposure by 10% of the picture provided by iRetrOVolver it looks the same,

so what colour light did iRetrOVolver use ?? Daylight white or standard white bulb ? did clusteruk use the "auto" setting on his camera and it adjusted the exposure for him ??

in anycase from my point of view even from iRetrOVolver original picture for a 30yr old Amiga 500+ it's VERY clean and none or very minimal yellowing that I can't see in the photo's
all I see is the dull grey/tint of an A500+

Click to expand...

Hi Steve - I find that offer very generous and honest of you.. I truly appreciate that gesture.. that alone makes the whole experience a good one even though I won't pass the bill onto you.. the gesture means a whole lot more to me Sir!

Thank you!

Marcel

This has now been resolved, with thanks.

Steve

iRetrOVolver

I have now noticed that you instantly cancelled payment for this A500 on the 14th with no message to me in this forum that you had and which you have accepted here in post #34.
Please send payment for this again ASAP.
Administrator please note my disappointment at this as you are aware I tried to resolve this fairly and yet Paypal has today reversed the payment on Marcel's instructions and I have a negative balance.
I will except the return of goods as clearance of this.

@ClusterUK

Can you please confirm proof (via PM if required) that Marcel reversed the transaction on the 14th (Important) before any discussions took place regarding the Item and without warning as indicated by the conversations continuing here up to the 19th with no indication of the reversal and that Marcel was giving the impression of coming to an agreement between you both.

thanks.

I have received a PM from Davideo regarding this and I would like to take a stand.. or defend myself here.. as it seems you are now aiming your arrows at me.. the buyer.. for whatever reason.. but I will do so here.

Firstly..

"What I find most unworthy of any member of AmiBay is to put in a dispute with Paypal before contacting the seller or a Mod/Admin notifying them of a possible problem"

This statement is TOTALLY incorrect. I have mentioned it to Sardine in a PM and asked him FIRST. I posted the images and ONLY opened a PayPal dispute then. So not before the 14th as suggested above.

Secondly;

"This is not the sort of behaviour we expect from the members of AmiBay" and "Would you be so kind as to explain your total lack of respect for fellow members of AmiBay?"

Wow.. seriously now? That really hit a wrong nerve here..

I have always treated every AmiBayer with the OUTMOST RESPECT and have NEVER in my history of AmiBay dealings mistreated anyone. My sales were always clear and so were my purchases.

I have not taken any money.. I have not cheated anyone out of their money.. nor would I ever.. I merely exercised my right, as a buyer!

I am surprised I have to mention this to you all, but when you pay for goods using PayPal, you have the option to open a dispute. In that dispute I have stated CLEARLY the thread of the sale and that we are working towards a solution. On the question if I wanted a refund or a partial refund, I DECLINED that option and said the dialog was the path forward. When the sellers does not respond, PayPal assumes there is a dispute and puts a lock on the deal. I have not been asking for this. I have not received a refund and I would not WANT to receive a refund.

In the mean time ClusterUK and myself spoke about it, came to a consensus in which ClusterUK offered to pay for the RetroBright. That gesture was ALL I wanted to hear and I even refused him to pay me. Just the gesture was sufficient for me.

Unaware of the PayPal activities in the background, ClusterUK informed me of what happened to which I instantaneously logged into PayPal and informed PayPal there was no need to proceed and all was fine.

So please enlighten me.. I exercised my right as a consumer to report a dispute.. I did not ASK for a refund nor a partial refund. I even refused the generous offer of the seller (see thread) to pay me for the retrobrighting..

That PM of Davideo.. IMHO totally uncalled for to strike such a tone but you now have my response and that is all I have to say to this!

Just a couple of points.

This statement is TOTALLY incorrect. I have mentioned it to Sardine in a PM and asked him FIRST. I posted the images and ONLY opened a PayPal dispute after several days of not having received a response from the seller on the matter.

Click to expand...

sorry that is incorrect. you received the goods on the 14th and filed a dispute on the 14th ( 14 Sep 2017 - Buyer: Dispute opened)that's not several days that's just as you opened the box WITHOUT contacting the seller.
you contacted me on the 14th on how to proceed as the goods you received where not as clean as you thought.
I posted on the 14th

if it's not the colour you was expecting then you need to contact the buyer,,

Click to expand...

Then on the 15th (Paypal dispute already filed and you are still asking how to proceed ignoring my request for you to contact the seller)

then you definitely need to discuss the issue with the seller, from what ive seen it's a very clean, none or minimal yellowing A500+ (as A500+ where more off/grey than white).

Click to expand...

you also was economical with the truth to paypal claims.

you said on the 14th to PayPal the below paragraph without contacting the seller, you said the below on the day you received the goods without contacting the seller, you did not attempt to contact the seller via this forum from which you bought the goods. can you confirm and correct me if im mistaken that anytime on or after the 14th you attempted to contact the seller ?? what was the 1st PM you sent and when ??
I can guarantee it wasnt several days of attempts BEFORE you filed the PayPal dispute. it was actually 0 days, possibly an hour or so at most.

Your 1st point of contact was the below PayPal dispute you filed the same day you recieved the goods before contacting the seller via this forum.

14/09/2017 20:15 BST - Buyer: I am opening this dispute as the received goods are not in the condition as advertised. The images show a non-discoloured machine, justifying also the higher sticker price.. but reality shows a yellowed machine in a not so pristine condition. As seen in my response on AmiBay, I included the images (yours and mine) to document the received goods. From the serial you can see it is the exact same machine yet in a completely different condition.I do not want to cause issues and like to keep things fair.. but I hope you understand that a machine like this I can buy at GBP 40-50 any given day from AmiBay.Thank you,Marcel

Click to expand...

I like how you claim to PayPal you could buy an A500+ in the same condition as this thread at any given day of the week for £40-£50.. please show me ANY thread in the last YEAR that comes even close to what you claimed to PayPal a yellowed, not so pristine condition, A500+

To my eyes, its a VERY clean A500+ in VERY good condition with very minimal yellowing for 30yrs old

@iRetr0Volver

My PM was sent to you in private but it's interesting to note you have only quoted parts of it.

For clarity to all our members I'll repeat the full PM here

I've been reading through the original for sale thread here and the reported post discussion within the Mod/Admin section.

Admittedly you won't be able to see the long discussion that has been ongoing between the Mods/Admins.

This has made for interesting reading and has raised more questions that it's answered.

All the PMs between ClusterUK and yourself have been shared with us since the thread was reported.

What I find most unworthy of any member of AmiBay is to put in a dispute with Paypal before contacting the seller or a Mod/Admin notifying them of a possible problem.

According to the evidence we've been supplied with and seen for ourselves you received the A500+ on the 14th September from post #26 on the original For Sale thread.

In post #35 on the same thread dated 22nd September - ClusterUK states and I quote
"I have now noticed that you instantly cancelled payment for this A500 on the 14th with no message to me in this forum..."

No where in your posts made in the thread from receiving the item on the 14th and up until 22nd did you state that you had placed a dispute with Paypal.

This is not the sort of behaviour we expect from the members of AmiBay.

Would you be so kind as to explain your total lack of respect for fellow members of AmiBay?

The reason I ask is because that is how I see your behaviour in this particular case.

On behalf of AmiBay, Dave

Click to expand...

Sardine said:

You received the goods on the 14th and filed a dispute on the 14th ( 14 Sep 2017 - Buyer: Dispute opened)that's not several days that's just as you opened the box WITHOUT contacting the seller. you contacted me on the 14th on how to proceed as the goods you received where not as clean as you thought.

Click to expand...

If you see my previous post, I took that part out.. before you responded, however your Quote still includes it. Reason for the initial statement was that I went by memory.. but checked with PayPal and I confirm it being opened on the 14th.

Still after I posted the images and the PM (to you Sardine)

Sardine said:

Then on the 15th (Paypal dispute already filed and you are still asking how to proceed ignoring my request for you to contact the seller)

Click to expand...

As said.. my post contained the images and I asked the seller on how to proceed.. the case with PayPal is MY RIGHT AS A BUYER to file a dispute.

Sardine said:

You said on the 14th to PayPal the below paragraph without contacting the seller, you said the below on the day you received the goods without contacting the seller, you did not attempt to contact the seller via this forum from which you bought the goods. can you confirm and correct me if im mistaken that anytime on or after the 14th you attempted to contact the seller ?? what was the 1st PM you sent and when ?? I can guarantee it wasnt several days of attempts BEFORE you filed the PayPal dispute. it was actually 0 days, possibly an hour or so at most.Your 1st point of contact was the below PayPal dispute you filed the same day you recieved the goods before contacting the seller via this forum.

Click to expand...

See previous response.. I have sent you a PM.. I posted CLEARLY in the thread the images to compare ACTUAL with OFFERED.. ClusterUK logged in that day after I posted the image (check your logs) and when no response came.. I opened the case with PayPal.. so what is your problem here??!!

14/09/2017 20:15 BST - Buyer: I am opening this dispute as the received goods are not in the condition as advertised. The images show a non-discoloured machine, justifying also the higher sticker price.. but reality shows a yellowed machine in a not so pristine condition. As seen in my response on AmiBay, I included the images (yours and mine) to document the received goods. From the serial you can see it is the exact same machine yet in a completely different condition.I do not want to cause issues and like to keep things fair.. but I hope you understand that a machine like this I can buy at GBP 40-50 any given day from AmiBay.Thank you,Marcel"

Click to expand...

Correct.. that is my statement.. observe how I included the thread (to be clear) and also take notice of the comment "I do not want to cause issues and like to keep things fair"

Sardine said:

I like how you claim to PayPal you could buy an A500+ in the same condition as this thread at any given day of the week for £40-£50.. please show me ANY thread in the last YEAR that comes even close to what you claimed to PayPal.

Click to expand...

Clearly I was ticked off when I opened the dispute.. why otherwise open a dispute.. That I admit without hesitation.

But what is this witch hunt now then??

As a buyer, I have the right to open a dispute when I feel there is a need. I felt there was a need.

I just checked your Forum Rules and by all means.. I see NO order in how I should proceed here.. but maybe I missed it or I am wrong so please enlighten me where that is written that I should wait "X" days before opening a dispute.

And really.. ClusterUK and myself HAVE come to a CONSENSUS... I even REFUSED him PAYING me.. so where in your mind was I even wanting to cheat anyone.. I could have accepted the money if I wanted but I did not!

I hope this is clear now!

- - - Updated - - -

davideo said:

@iRetr0Volver

My PM was sent to you in private but it's interesting to note you have only quoted parts of it.

Click to expand...

I quoted merely the parts that seriously ticked me off .. but sure.. you get into it as well.. one lovely discussion we got going here for a reason which is still above and beyond me to be honest.

Oh.. and opening a dispute is NOT the same as canceling a payment!

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe irrelevant for your hunt, but for completeness, here is the confirmation I gave to ClusterUK in which I confirm that I indeed open a dispute as there was to my judgement an issue. I included the sales thread for total transparency.. and the goal being to work towards a resolution.. and so we have..

- - - Updated - - -

Oh.. and one more thing then..

Since PayPal closed the case on the 22nd.. and an e-mail was sent to the Seller to confirm it was closed (funds cleared) after I also said it was resolved..

Did ClusterUK inform you of this as well on the 23rd when you asked for proof?

I'd REALLY like to know..