A3640 in A3000s rev 6.1

abraXXious

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Help!

I cannot get this a3k to boot when the a3640 is installed.

The a3640 has been tested in another system and is fine.

The a3000 boots fine without the a3640 installed.

The a3000d is - revision 6.1 board with 3.1 roms, 2mb chip and 16 mb fast

The a3640 is a rev 3.1 with the correct Gal chip.

I have tried setting the jumpers (J100, J102 etc etc) as per instructions I have found on the 'net, but that just gives me a blank screen when I attempt to boot.

HELP.... please.... :)
 

AndyLandy

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First up, what Kickstart are you using? You really want 3.1 for your best chance of success. 2.04 might work. 1.4 beta definitely won't work with the A3640.

Secondly, you can't use Static Column FastRAM with the A3640, you need to make sure at least the first bank of ZIPs is Page Mode (Or use a ZIP to SIMM adapter, since all SIMMs are Page Mode anyway)

You might need to get the A3640 upgraded to a full r3.2 board with U209 GAL -3.

If all that still doesn't work, your DMAC might be out of tolerance.

More blurb here: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a3640
and here: http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-a3640.shtml

Good luck!
 

abraXXious

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Lol, hey Andy.

If you read my first post you will see which kickstart I am using - 3.1. :)

I JUST had 16mb of fast ram in zip packages installed.... will now find out if they are static or fast page... so if they are static they are bin fodder?
 

jvdbossc

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I do not know for sure - but I've found conflicting info on that one.

Best to wait for a hardware guru.
 

AndyLandy

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@abraXXious: Sorry, I should read things first before replying! :Doh:

The INT2 mod is needed for SCSI on CPU boards. The A3640 shouldn't need it (but it does no harm to add the mod, it's only one wire soldered to the underside of the board)

As for your ZIPs, Static Column RAM is better than Page Mode RAM. If you run Sysinfo on an 030/25 A3000 you'll be able to tell what RAM you have by the performance results:

sysinfo.jpg

This is my A3000 with the original 4MB of Static Column ZIP RAM. ~4800 Dhrystones, ~5.00 MIPS. ~1.00x A3000 benchmark speed (The A3000 benchmark on Sysinfo uses Static Column RAM)

sysspeed.jpg

This is the result after fitting the SIMM-folie adapter. 72pin SIMMs are all Page Mode. ~4200 Dhrystones, ~4.40 MIPS, ~0.9x benchmark A3000 speed.

SC ZIPs are exactly the right thing for a stock '030 A3000, but no good if you want to put an A3640 in there.
 

abraXXious

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Thanks for the help Andy.

Okiez, I have some more info.

The a3000 is fitted with fast page zip ram (16 mb), so thats not the problem.

Any other ideas?
 

AndyLandy

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Only other thing I can think to check is that the relevant motherboard jumpers are all set to EXTCLK. Are you getting any signs of life at all out of the old girl?
 

abraXXious

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Only other thing I can think to check is that the relevant motherboard jumpers are all set to EXTCLK. Are you getting any signs of life at all out of the old girl?


Unfortunately there seems to be a difference of opinion as to WHERE the jumpers should be set!

No life at all. Black screen, dim power light.
 

Buzzfuzz

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This looks a lot like Tomse's thread: https://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=10583

Exact crosspost:
One gotcha. We're talking about installing the card in an A3000 in this instance, rather than an A4000. There may be subtle differences in which jumpers need to be twiddled to shift to EXTCLK a CPU board.

Maybe it's a rev 3.0 board, in that case it won't work, it has to be 3.1 or 3.2
http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-a3640.shtml

A3000 mainboard jumper positions


These are the correct jumper positions to use the A3640 in an A3000 desktop: J100 (QUADCLK): 3-4 (EXT)J102 (BRDCLK) : 2-3 (INT)J103 (FPU) : 1-2J104 (CPUCLK) : 2-3 (EXT)
The '1'-Position is where the printed arrow head is.
For the 16 MHz A3000, some additional jumpers need to be changed to switch the board to 25 MHz operation (information submitted by Christian Just, just@zfn.uni-bremen.de): J151 (ROM SPEED): 1-2 (25M)J152 (ROM SPEED): 1-2 (25M)J851 (CPU SPEED): 2-3 (25M)Do not change any jumper on the A3640 board itself!

If your A3000 is the 16MHz version you can drop your hopes: the A3640 will not work at all, even swapping the 3 custom chips for newer versions (Buster 11, DMAC04 & Ramsey07).

With a 25MHz unit you may have luck. Just remember to set the SCSI chain the most normal possible, an A3640 hooked on the A3000 can clear the NVRAM and then the A3000 go nuts!
 

abraXXious

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Hi there,

its a rev 3.1 board - been down that track. :(

THose jumper positions do not work.

PLUS, on the rev 6.1 board there is NO marking to show which pin is 1 and which is 4 on the 4 pin headers! So its all guess work. :(

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

Ok, yet again in Amigaland I am at the end of my fracking tether.

Anyone who can talk me through the jumper positions etc to get this card (which from SHOULD work as it is a 3.1, and the ram on my a3k is fast page) working will receive a paypal payment of $25.00 aud.

Help!!!
 

Buzzfuzz

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Did you check this ?

http://mail-index.netbsd.org/amiga/1996/03/22/0001.html
RAMSEY and DMAC

The RAMSEY and DMAC chips are important A3000 custom chips that, among other things, implement a part of the A3000's onboard DMA SCSI host adapter.

Nearly all A3000 were delivered with the revision combination of DMAC-02 and RAMSEY-04.
The problem with this combination is, the DMAC-02 does not like 68040 boards like the A3640.
There are both heat and timing problems.

If you are lucky, the tolerances of your DMAC-02 are wide enough to work together with the A3640.
If you are not so lucky, SCSI will not work correctly anymore with the A3640 installed.

To overcome this problem for the A3000T-040, Commodore designed new revisions of these chips: RAMSEY-07 and DMAC-04.
If your DMAC-02 has problems with the A3640, all you would need to do is to exchange your old RAMSEY and DMAC revisions with the newer ones.
But in reality, you can not buy a DMAC-04.
They are no longer available anymore.

The RAMSEY-07 is available as a spare part (because it is also used in the A4000T), but this will not help you.
The problem is in the DMAC, not in the RAMSEY and a RAMSEY-07 together with a DMAC-02 does not work at all.
You need either both chips in the old revisions, or both in the new revisions.

If you have an extremely old A3000, you might even have a DMAC-01. This one runs very hot and has even more problems with '040 board.
I also heard of a RAMSEY-03, but don't know any difference to RAMSEY-04.

So, if you have a DMAC that does not work with the A3640, you are basically out of luck.
What you could do in this case: buy another DMAC-02 (still available) and hope that one works with the A3640 bychance.
Replace the onboard SCSI host adapter by one on a Zorro II or Zorro III plug in card.
Forget about the A3640 and either don't use an '040 board, or use one with a SCSI host adapter of its own.

BUSTER

The BUSTER chip (or more exactly Super-Buster, as the original Buster is a different chip used in the newer A2000s) is important for the Zorro-III slots in your A3000.
There are many different revisions of it, but any of them should work with the A3640.
Your A3000 (if not upgraded) probably has a BUSTER revsion 05, 06 or 07.

Having said that, you might still want to upgrade your BUSTER to a revision 11 part when you install the A3640.
This is no must, but a good idea. The revision 11 BUSTER implements
Zorro-III DMA, so you can use cards like the Fastlane Z3, which is not possible with older BUSTERs.
The rev. 11 BUSTER is also faster that previous versions and more compatible with different plug in cards.

There is a BUSTER rev. 09 available, too. Do not buy this one, it also tries to implement Zorro-III DMA but has a bug in this.
The rev. 11 part also is the only one, which has an extra hack to fix a bug in a different A3000 chip.
 

abraXXious

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Hey there,

yep read that. I have Dmac 02 and Ramsey 04 - so my understanding is that they should work, and that the worst that can happen is that I will no longer have scsi.

I am simply getting a black screen. Almost as if the jumpers are not in the correct positions.

So I have ruled out the following potential problems:

Incompatible Kickstart? Nope - 3.1 roms installed.

Incompatible a3640? Nope - Revision 3.1.

Incompatible DMAC and RAMSEY? Nope - 02 and 04 - worst that can happen is loss of scsi and over heating, but Im not even getting to that stage at the moment.

Incompatible Fast Ram installed in the A3000? Nope, fast ram is fast page.

Incompatible A3000? Nope, it is a 25 mhz model (although I have now found even 16 mhz models should work with the A3540.

Jumper positions wrong? Possible, but I have tried most combinations and no joy.

HELP!!!!
 

Buzzfuzz

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But you didn't test with the INT2 mod, if your skills are up to it, solder that wire, but only do it when you know you can, else it's better to visit someone who can.
 

abraXXious

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The Int mod is no problem (my soldering skills are up to such a simple hack), problem is, it is ONLY required to get scsi working with a cpu card that has onboard scsi.

It has no effect what so ever on an a3640 installed in an a3000.
 

AndyLandy

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So, judging by the post above, the jumper settings should be:

J100 (QUADCLK): 3-4 (EXT)
J102 (BRDCLK) : 2-3 (INT)
J103 (FPU) : 1-2
J104 (CPUCLK) : 2-3 (EXT)
(reformatted to make more sense)

No other jumpers should be involved in installing an A3640.

Just to confirm, I trust the A3000 works fine with the on-board '030 and the A3640 works fine in another machine (A4000)?
 

abraXXious

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So, judging by the post above, the jumper settings should be:

J100 (QUADCLK): 3-4 (EXT)
J102 (BRDCLK) : 2-3 (INT)
J103 (FPU) : 1-2
J104 (CPUCLK) : 2-3 (EXT)
(reformatted to make more sense)

No other jumpers should be involved in installing an A3640.

Just to confirm, I trust the A3000 works fine with the on-board '030 and the A3640 works fine in another machine (A4000)?

Hey Andy,

yeppers, the a3640 works fine in other machines, the a3000 runs fine with the onboard 030.

Tried those jumper settings - no good. I had to "trial and error" j100 and j102 since on the rev 6.1 a3000 mb there is no markings to show where pin 1 is and where pin 4 is! If someone could give a description of which pins are 1 on j100 and j102 I could double check.
 

AndyLandy

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Tried those jumper settings - no good. I had to "trial and error" j100 and j102 since on the rev 6.1 a3000 mb there is no markings to show where pin 1 is and where pin 4 is! If someone could give a description of which pins are 1 on j100 and j102 I could double check.

Admire this stupidly-high-res photo of an r9 board:
http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo2.pl?id=a3000&pg=7&res=hi〈=en

That should have the relevant markings on it! Hopefully, they'll match up with the jumpers on your r7 board.

For reference, when you've got a bunch of pins surrounded by a white box on the PCB print, pin 1 is the one with the pointy end:

. ____
<••••|
. 1234

Good luck!
 

abraXXious

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Thanks Andy,

weird that the 6.1 board I have has no pointy ends marked!

---------- Post added at 08:11 ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 ----------

Tried the jumper settings (using the linked image of the a3k board) - no good. Black screen and dim power light. :(
 
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