am i alowed

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jimbob005

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can i sell a snes wild card on the forums there will be no disks sold with the unit as i dont and will never sell copys

thanks james
 

Zetr0

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Hiyas Jimmers,

we really appreciate that you have asked my friend,

The team have been ratifying AmiBays stance on units like this and other similar products.

We want to be as flexible as possible for our members so with this in mind we have a new amendment going up now =)

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Programmable 'Firmware' devices

Please note that 'Firmware' devices containing software code are subject to the same rule of trading as ALL software on AmiBay

Firmware is that part of a of programable medium which can be used for storing startup or any code indicative to the operation of a system -

This covers ROM, PROM, EPROM, Flash and Microcontroller technologies.

To openly trade in these items, you must ensure that you own the code / software that is stored on these device(s) or provide them as blank / empty for future programming.

You can only provide programmed items or offer a service to program this technology where you are able to provide proof that the code or software programmed is in either in the public domain / open source, or owned by you as part of a transferable license.

This rule applies to, but is not limited to, the following common technologies:-

Trans-Flash adapters (i.e R4/DSOne) , Console Mod chips, EPROM (including OTP Roms), Micro-Controllers and SD / SDHC media or other solid state storage devices.

If you have any doubt or concern about a device to sell or buy, please contact a member of staff for assitance.

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With this construct you can indeed sell your item as it conforms to the above guidlines.

Again a big thanks for requesting clarification.
 

RedDaemonFox

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What about mod-chipped machines, you mention them, but i don't understand whether you don't allow the chip itself or the software it can play... The reason i ask is I wanted to see if i could ever sell modchipped/softmodded machines on here, of course with no games or proprietary stuff?
 

Zetr0

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@dreamcast270mhz

How would a mod-chipped XBox be sold on here?

well within the new guidlines it can.

Firstly the Modchip has a partial semit of code that belongs to Microsoft, this code also exists on the motherboard in the original TSOP. so you are not selling somthing that is not already there and legal.

It is only if you start selling the modchips - pre-programmed without an XBox that the problem exists.

However should that the modified XBox harddrive have a few backup-games with NO originals then you would have remove this software of which there are no original games too.

Thats the rule / guideline - to what you can openly trade on AmiBay


AmiBay is not here to police other peoples IP, or ownerships, we have to follow the precepts and precidents of law where they exist only in the protection of AmiBay so that there is an AmiBay for people to trade on.

We cannot allow open trade of copyright protected material and we dont interfere with trades once they have moved to private discussions.
 

Kin Hell

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@ Zetr0

So does that mean for having a Chipped Xbox that got shut down from Network Access by Micro$haft, that they are taking the Law in their own hands;? - Or just enforcing the law in their own world? :shrug:

Surely if it's "ban-able", it's not "sell-able". :nod:

Just my thoughts on the matter m8. (y)

Kin
 

AndyLandy

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@ Zetr0

So does that mean for having a Chipped Xbox that got shut down from Network Access by Micro$haft, that they are taking the Law in their own hands;? - Or just enforcing the law in their own world? :shrug:

Surely if it's "ban-able", it's not "sell-able". :nod:

Just my thoughts on the matter m8. (y)

Kin

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4650225.stm

"The conviction is the first of its kind in the UK, where the modification of video games consoles has been an illegal practice since October 2003, when the UK enacted the EU Copyright Directive."

Stupid law, but law it is. :(
 
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Kin Hell

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@ AndyLandy

Does that mean you endorse what I said above?

I still think we should be questioning this on AmiBay, or we too are breaking the Law.

Kin
 

Zetr0

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In the UK you can sell blank and purchase mod chips, this is the same for europe.

The US still has its legal circus to run in some aspects however.


As a private seller (non-commercial) you can sell what you own, however under AmiBay rules you cannot trade what you don't own, this includes software.

Software on ANY meduim that is not legally owned, you cannot trade here - some mod-chips contain proprietary code, as such are illegal to sell programmed.

However this code can be sourced from the target machine, so if you already own said machine then you can source the code from that, you just cannot sell it seperately.

@Kinnie

So does that mean for having a Chipped Xbox that got shut down from Network Access by Micro$haft, that they are taking the Law in their own hands;? - Or just enforcing the law in their own world? :shrug:

Surely if it's "ban-able", it's not "sell-able". :nod:
no sir... but you have made a good point -

Microsoft can ban you from their services, its their way of getting back at the last ruling against them in regards to mod-chips.

However, once an XBox360 is banned from XBL there is no way back to it.... also there are a lot of *unconfirmed* reports that M$ also disable features from the machine including game installation and account corruption.

In a nut shell -

What ever you do with your equipment is upto to you, however what ever M$ want to do with XBL is upto them, as it is a service they provide.

@AndyLandy

BBC News said:
The man had been selling modified Xbox consoles which he fitted with a big hard drive containing 80 games.

The man, who has not yet been named, was selling modified Xbox consoles, fitted with a 200GB hard drive and 80 pre-installed games, via his website for £380

THIS is why he was prosecuted, and rightly so... thats true piracy, selling copied works is a big no-no... if he sold them as big and blank... then he would of been clear..

However this area is truly an evolving area, with goal posts and legal lines drawn and redefined all the time, I can promise that with your help we can remain system-legal for the future of AmiBays regard
 
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AndyLandy

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@AndyLandy

BBC News said:
The man had been selling modified Xbox consoles which he fitted with a big hard drive containing 80 games.


THIS is why he was prosectute, and rightly so... thats true piracy, selling copied works is a big no-no... if he sold them as big and blank... then he would of been clear..

According to the article, he was done for modifying consoles under some legislation from October 2003. I'd suggest we double-check this legislation before we make any decisions.
 

Zetr0

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well for the moment the public rule stands untill we can find the original article under the legislation this chap was prosecuted under -

A lot of the industry / media will obfuscate the legislation for sensationalism.

I also believe that is case will go-to appeal, and we shall see this EU directive tested in its fullest regard.
 
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Kin Hell

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I'm sure it'll still end up like the Sony Law, whatever the current status. If Sony can get away with it, bet ur Ass M$ will.

Kin
 

Zetr0

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@Kinnie

Its highly possible and likely my friend, I can hope that sense prevails but there are days I wonder if the world is doomed to stupidity...

I am trying to find more on this BBC news, I am not having any luck.. anyone?

I need to find this EC Directive.
 

Zetr0

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@Andy

Well found m8!

This particular EU Directive has been superseeded in both 1997/8 and 2004, I will try and find the new one. (it hasn't changed that much)

This particular directive is the premise of providence through a busines -

Hence why slow-mo-jim from Caimbridge ended up with 140 hours community service.

The remit of this directive is exclusive to that of providing as a business or service with one exception - Section 2.(b)

Copyright said:
A person commits an offence if he provides, promotes, advertises or markets —
(b) otherwise than in the course of a business to such an extent as to affect prejudicially the copyright owner, A service the purpose of which is to enable or facilitate the circumvention of effective technological measures.

Selling an XBox (even privately and not in the course of a business) with 80 Games pre-installed without authorisation of the copyright holders is what got this (and any fool really) (or its superseeded directive) slammed down on him.

Insofar as Digital "Software" Media is concerned, as long as the original disks are provided, the license of that data is expressed for its use.

So had joey-decon provided 80 original XBox games with the XBox as he was selling (within a business frame) he would of been in the clear.

But as a complete pilliock, he decided to sell warez!!!... £300 for an XBox... even with a 1TB HDD the hardware doesn't cost £100!!!
 

Zetr0

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its my spelling of Cambridge thats tickled you hasn't it lol!!!
 
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