Amiga Piracy and the Film and Music Industry

Jumping Anaconda

Member
AmiBayer
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Posts
683
Country
England
Region
Hertfordshire
(I've branched this from the 'Worst Amiga Hardware' thread, as it veers off topic)

In regards to the film and music industry, if you look at the basic economics of it, piracy (as opposed to perfectly acceptable backing up of items you own) affects smaller copyright holders more than it does larger copyright holders. A large company can spend a few million on making and promoting a Coldplay record and know that for every 5 times it is pirated, they will get one sale, and they can sell several million on a fairly tight margin and still make a healthy profit. For a small company that might expect say 5000 sales on a product, if 4 thousand or so are lost to piracy then they might not even cover their costs.

The reason the copyright laws are there, and the reason that companies have a right to try and prevent their work from being copied it that the reality is that for every 1 person that legitimately wants to back up their collection, there a many many more than just want to copy it for their friends. That is the reality of the situation. I'll point out, there are plenty of commercial DVDs that are issued without any protection, but I do not see people scrambling to take the opportunity to make backups of those titles.

The fact is that if there is no value in an piece of intellectual property, if a company can not protect the work it has invested time, money and energy into, then those people will not longer make it. That is what happened with the Amiga's games market. It got pirated to death. It did not die because people could not make backups of their own disks, it died because people copied them and gave them to their friends. As a result, many decent programmers, artists and designers got paid way under what they should have, if at all, while a lot of people who never did gave a penny to these guys got to enjoy their work. I killed it, and most likely plenty other people on this forum killed it.

This is exactly the same things that is currently happening in the music and film industry. Because rampant piracy makes niche and marginal titles much less likely to turn a profit, the number of releases are decreased and popularist titles that attract large homogenized unchallenging audiences start to dominate.

I'll also point out, film and music are one of the few remaining industries in this country. I live in close proximity to two major film studios, and if they suddenly stop making films, a lot of local businesses will collapse and the knock on effect will be huge. So really, I think we should be very grateful that the bigger businesses are trying to show intent to firmly protect copyrights. What is more, actually, there smaller companies are well represented in their opposition to copyright infringement, it is just because they are small, they are not so well heard. Many small companies are members of the Industry Trust which seeks act to protect their interests and inform the public of the damage piracy does to them.

I will add, I think that you are wrong on both counts. As far as I am aware there is no legal reason why you can not duplicate a sound or video recording for your own personal use. Similarly, I do not think that adding disk based protection contravenes any of your statutory rights. If the company wants to make a disk that has certain track lengths or whatever, it is at its total liberty to do so. The fact that you do not have the means to duplicate that disk does not mean that they have obstructed you from your right to duplicate it. If that were the case you could argue that the photocopy proof manual from Worms infringed your rights.

@jumpy

In the UK:

Your statutory right enables you the right to back up software that you have a license too. Anything that inhibits this right is infringing on your statutory right.

The same is not for music or movies I am afraid to say, these large corperate congloms have managed to erode these rights over the last 60 years.. thus you are not entitled to back up music or movies that you legally own.
 

Bootay

New member
AmiBayer
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Posts
319
Country
USA
Region
Michigan
I see your point, but I disagree on why the Amiga died. It had a lot more to do with how Commodore was being run as a company and the fact that they got into tax troubles in North America and were no longer allowed to sell/advertise here. Than it did with piracy. I am not going to say that Amiga did not get pirated like mad...because it did. But I don't think that it was their demise.
 

AmiNeo

CodeMonkey
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Posts
7,436
Country
UK
Region
Kendal, Cumbria
Copyright law has always intreagued me and I do understand its reason for existing. Far too many people these days seem too dumb or too ignorant of respect for companies which work hard to develop great media. If you like a game you buy it, if you don't why keep it? Why the heck would you even want it?

I also think that some companies go too far such as EA with its 'gotta have an internet connection and register to play a single player game, and you'll only get x amount of activations until you cannot use this software without calling us and forever activating' method... It just hurts legitimate customers while people can pirate a game and get around it anyways. These releases also destroy your right to make a backup too and what when they close support for these games?

This is the reason I lost interest in PC gaming a few years ago. Thank you EA for ruining my faith.

I'm pro companies rights to legitimate sales but companies need to respect us as much as we do them.

---------- Post added at 21:58 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

I see your point, but I disagree on why the Amiga died. It had a lot more to do with how Commodore was being run as a company and the fact that they got into tax troubles in North America and were no longer allowed to sell/advertise here. Than it did with piracy. I am not going to say that Amiga did not get pirated like mad...because it did. But I don't think that it was their demise.

Don't forget the C64 era with the audio tape recorder method with every home having a copying machine :D rofl.
 

Jumping Anaconda

Member
AmiBayer
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Posts
683
Country
England
Region
Hertfordshire
But no activation methods used by EA prevent anyone from making a backup of the disc or original program. If they are not using disc based protection than online sign up is quite a useful approach, especially as there are very few people who do not have access to the internet from home. Of course it is frustrating, and it is ironic that those who used pirate versions avoid the the protection rigmarole, but it just seems a bit odd to hold that against the label. It would be like arguing that cars are made unnecessarily hard to get in to by manufacturers because they put locks on the doors. Registering software is just part of owning software.

Copyright law has always intreagued me and I do understand its reason for existing. Far too many people these days seem too dumb or too ignorant of respect for companies which work hard to develop great media. If you like a game you buy it, if you don't why keep it?

I also think that some companies go too far such as EA with its 'gotta have an internet connection and register to play a single player game, and you'll only get x amount of activations until you cannot use this software without calling us and forever activating' method... It just hurts legitimate customers while people can pirate a game and get around it anyways. These releases also destroy your right to make a backup too and what when they close support for these games?

This is the reason I lost interest in PC gaming a few years ago. Thank you EA for ruining my faith.

I'm pro companies rights to legitimate sales but companies need to respect us as much as we do them.
 

AmiNeo

CodeMonkey
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Posts
7,436
Country
UK
Region
Kendal, Cumbria
But no activation methods used by EA prevent anyone from making a backup of the disc or original program. If they are not using disc based protection than online sign up is quite a useful approach, especially as there are very few people who do not have access to the internet from home. Of course it is frustrating, and it is ironic that those who used pirate versions avoid the the protection rigmarole, but it just seems a bit odd to hold that against the label. It would be like arguing that cars are made unnecessarily hard to get in to by manufacturers because they put locks on the doors. Registering software is just part of owning software.

Copyright law has always intreagued me and I do understand its reason for existing. Far too many people these days seem too dumb or too ignorant of respect for companies which work hard to develop great media. If you like a game you buy it, if you don't why keep it?

I also think that some companies go too far such as EA with its 'gotta have an internet connection and register to play a single player game, and you'll only get x amount of activations until you cannot use this software without calling us and forever activating' method... It just hurts legitimate customers while people can pirate a game and get around it anyways. These releases also destroy your right to make a backup too and what when they close support for these games?

This is the reason I lost interest in PC gaming a few years ago. Thank you EA for ruining my faith.

I'm pro companies rights to legitimate sales but companies need to respect us as much as we do them.

Have you tried copying one of those discs and using it to install? Most people ive heard of doing that have had major trouble in the past.

EAs method is more a kin to a car manufacturer having you call their garage to unlock your car for you everytime you want to get in it and only being able to do it from 1 phone number, when they could simply give you the only key that fits.
 

Jumping Anaconda

Member
AmiBayer
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Posts
683
Country
England
Region
Hertfordshire
I did not say it was why the Amiga died, I said it was why the Amiga games market died. There was still a massive market of eager consumers right up until the end of of 1996, but they were just not ready to pay for what they wanted.

I think there was a little window around this time when PC games took off, and this was when games came on CD as standard, and were that much more difficult to duplicate and not really worth downloading on dialup. The consoles had this same advantage the whole time they were cartridge based. They could price their titles way beyond Amiga titles, and still outsell them by huge margins. Thus their margins were bigger, their budgets were bigger and they had their own unique brands of highly developed and intricately designed games. Who in their right mind would have developed anything like Zelda for the Amiga knowing they might only sell a few hundred copies? Most of the best original Amiga games are either based around simple quirky concepts, extensions of the the ideology of the bed room made Spectrum games. You just did not get the "big" games made by huge teams.

I see your point, but I disagree on why the Amiga died. It had a lot more to do with how Commodore was being run as a company and the fact that they got into tax troubles in North America and were no longer allowed to sell/advertise here. Than it did with piracy. I am not going to say that Amiga did not get pirated like mad...because it did. But I don't think that it was their demise.


---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

Fair enough, I do not actually play computer games any more, so I do not know actually know what EA's approach is to disc protection, but I still find it hard to criticise them for it. They have a duty to protect the interests of their shareholders. Their company value of everything they have in based on their intellectual property. If they their intellectual property becomes useless because they have made it easy for people to steal, then their company becomes worthless. Not only that, if a shareholder realizes that their product is not protects, whether it makes a practical difference or not, this can cause a run on their share value. So again I can see why EA take this approach, and I would argue that it is more a consequence of piracy rather than belligerence by the company.

But no activation methods used by EA prevent anyone from making a backup of the disc or original program. If they are not using disc based protection than online sign up is quite a useful approach, especially as there are very few people who do not have access to the internet from home. Of course it is frustrating, and it is ironic that those who used pirate versions avoid the the protection rigmarole, but it just seems a bit odd to hold that against the label. It would be like arguing that cars are made unnecessarily hard to get in to by manufacturers because they put locks on the doors. Registering software is just part of owning software.

Copyright law has always intreagued me and I do understand its reason for existing. Far too many people these days seem too dumb or too ignorant of respect for companies which work hard to develop great media. If you like a game you buy it, if you don't why keep it?

I also think that some companies go too far such as EA with its 'gotta have an internet connection and register to play a single player game, and you'll only get x amount of activations until you cannot use this software without calling us and forever activating' method... It just hurts legitimate customers while people can pirate a game and get around it anyways. These releases also destroy your right to make a backup too and what when they close support for these games?

This is the reason I lost interest in PC gaming a few years ago. Thank you EA for ruining my faith.

I'm pro companies rights to legitimate sales but companies need to respect us as much as we do them.

Have you tried copying one of those discs and using it to install? Most people ive heard of doing that have had major trouble in the past.

EAs method is more a kin to a car manufacturer having you call their garage to unlock your car for you everytime you want to get in it and only being able to do it from 1 phone number, when they could simply give you the only key that fits.
 

Megatron-UK

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Posts
151
Country
UK
Region
Durham/Newcastle
I'd like to know how all of these online activation, key-based, limited-number-of installs-before-you-call-them-to-reset-your-totals methods are going to allow us to play these games when the companies involved are long gone and cease to care about a 20-odd year old game in the future. Steam is as bad as anything else in that respect, IMO.

We wouldn't be able to play our Amiga games if they used the same 'rights protection' strategies that are being employed in todays games because the companies that made them wouldn't care a bit about supporting them.
I really do fear that in the near future there will be a whole generation of games that are simply lost because of the techniques being employed. The cracks and techniques used today to bypass some of the DRM are not going to stick around - how hard is it to find patches for games that were released only 5 years ago?

TBH, the last few years of PC gaming has made me go almost completely over to consoles (and I've been gaming on PC's since my first 16MHz 286)... even the dreaded Microsoft and Sony just let me stick a disc in and play - without ever having a network connection if I so choose. However I fear the next generation will likely go further towards the online-only requirement that we're now seeing in todays games.
 

AmiNeo

CodeMonkey
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Posts
7,436
Country
UK
Region
Kendal, Cumbria

Fair enough, I do not actually play computer games any more, so I do not know actually know what EA's approach is to disc protection, but I still find it hard to criticise them for it. They have a duty to protect the interests of their shareholders. Their company value of everything they have in based on their intellectual property. If they their intellectual property becomes useless because they have made it easy for people to steal, then their company becomes worthless. Not only that, if a shareholder realizes that their product is not protects, whether it makes a practical difference or not, this can cause a run on their share value. So again I can see why EA take this approach, and I would argue that it is more a consequence of piracy rather than belligerence by the company.
I do agree with you in principal however this method affects nobody but legitimate buyers. The piracy industry (if you can call it an industry) has already got around this and anyone that downloads cracked versions of EA games can play them for free without going through any of the hoops, yet EA still use this method on a lot of their best releases, from spore (the worst implimentation of it and the one that started it) to Mass effect that I am aware of but probably more since but i stopped following their games at that point.

They have become a little more relaxed with it since people stopped buying their games, (5 activations and a deactivation tool rather than 3 activations and thats it as it started out) but even the fact that you need an internet connection is a slap in the face as a single player game shouldnt require it. Whats it going to do for their sales and loyal customers if pirated copies can play hassel free and when you pay for a legit copy you have to create an account, link the game to it, log in with your username and password every time you want to play and only use one machine to play it at a time? Thats not copy protection, that just says to everyone that buys their games, 'I DONT TRUST YOU!'. I also can't see it helping sales...

The best copy protection IMHO is using non-standard media. It may not be perfect (ROMS) but in the day, how many megadrive games could be copied and played on a megadrive? The average person wouldn't be able to buy 50 blank cartridges from PC world and copy their entire games collection.

Perhaps they could standardise a non standard media format drive for software releases on pc... just a muse... prob never happen as it may kill CDs and DVDs lol.

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

I'd like to know how all of these online activation, key-based, limited-number-of installs-before-you-call-them-to-reset-your-totals methods are going to allow us to play these games when the companies involved are long gone and cease to care about a 20-odd year old game in the future. Steam is as bad as anything else in that respect, IMO.

We wouldn't be able to play our Amiga games if they used the same 'rights protection' strategies that are being employed in todays games because the companies that made them wouldn't care a bit about supporting them.
I really do fear that in the near future there will be a whole generation of games that are simply lost because of the techniques being employed. The cracks and techniques used today to bypass some of the DRM are not going to stick around - how hard is it to find patches for games that were released only 5 years ago?

TBH, the last few years of PC gaming has made me go almost completely over to consoles (and I've been gaming on PC's since my first 16MHz 286)... even the dreaded Microsoft and Sony just let me stick a disc in and play - without ever having a network connection if I so choose. However I fear the next generation will likely go further towards the online-only requirement that we're now seeing in todays games.

I'm totally with you, it doesnt look good and this is all kinda my point... not only are they harming themselves making legit customers jump through hoops but theyre also severely limiting the lifetime of their product aswell as killing the PC gaming industry.

They probably dont think it affects them as what they sell they only sell once but when more people stop buying their games because they only last a few years until servers are taken offline they will see the damage in their profits.

I'm also of the feeling that consoles are more tempting these days, i sold all my consoles once in favour of my PC only to end up buying them all back again thanks to this c***.

---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------

And steam says to me, "buy your games from us, have no hard copies and when we bite the dust you can kiss your games goodbye... Thanks for your money."

I have no problem paying for games but I refuse to buy software that limits my usage, now or in the future. If I buy a game, I should have the right to play it when I want, internet connection or not, without having to ask the publishers everytime I reinstall it a few times.
 

salaxi54

Incoming ASROC!
AmiBayer
Blogger
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Posts
3,864
Country
GREECE
Region
Athens
Obviously, every computer platform can have various methods of antipiracy, but i believe in the "Classic" Amiga case, the options are a bit more limited compared to more modern computers. As much as i may not be a gamer, i used to enjoy for a while playing adventures such as Cruise for a corpse. But it was a major drawback that i had to unbox the rotating cardboard disc in order to match the images i was asked for. Eventually, my "appetite" to keep playing the game ended real soon... But the protection methods for floppy-based software were very few i guess. You'd either have a hw dongle, a manual, a cardboard, or a non-dos-formatted floppy which you couldn't backup anyway. Maybe i'm missing a few alternatives here, but you get the point. Today, there surely are more "elegant" methods for every recent platform. Which makes me want to say that if the OS4 for example is not being ported to a more common platform due to piracy fear from the developers, it's a lie! A direct example is the MorphOS protection system. Your OS is dedicated to your machine's MAC address, thus, you can't use the software on another computer. Ok, maybe that isn't the most ideal way of protecting things, but hey, it works. We could go on and on for hours talking about piracy, but in the end, what does it have to do with the Amiga right now? As much as we all wanted software development to continue for our Amigas, times are a changing. Demands are higher, and our horsepower is petite. It was all in the hardware wether we like it or not. How many other ceased-platforms' developers still support them? Hmmmm not that many eh? If it were our own business, we wouldn't risk building programs for some broke computer manufacturer either....
 

Zetr0

Ya' Like it Retr0?
Joined
Nov 22, 2007
Posts
9,900
Country
UK
Region
Norfolk
@JA

I took Intelectual property as a module for my degree a few years back, as such I am lucky to be a little more versed than most.

Its also a VERY strange interest of mine.... one could easly call it a perversion.

have a read here for a breif-ish overview, once you have done that then have a look here at the intelectual property rights office (UK Gov.) - its got what you need on there.

You will discover that you are not afforded the statutory right to backup music or video within the UK.


Now, theres a lot of passion about Piracy and Sharing - so please - this should be a sensible discussion: lets not point fingers or start flaming / bating in this thread or it will have to be closed.


That being said, Piracey is taking something and then selling it on, Sharing is passing somthing on, these are two distincive terms that are best to use properly.


"It makes me sick to my stomach that two pre-teen children were tried and proscuted (with their parents receiving large 10's of thousands of dollars in fines) for Sharing....."


My personaly thoughts are that if -

Someone whom was willing to take an item without paying for it was never going to pay for it anyway - this supposed loss is a ficticious number at best and is only a guess which is used to press / lobby the removal rights from people as a whole.

I wont get into the DEB here as its a harrowing shame of both technological ignorance and pre-bought politics, the latter of which has no place on AmiBay.

My real concern of "copyright law" thats being abused is not from the people, but from unscruplusous solicitors, have google for "ACS Law" or "Tilley Baily Irvine" .... remember to take a sick bag....
 

AmiNeo

CodeMonkey
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Posts
7,436
Country
UK
Region
Kendal, Cumbria
Might want to look up Davenport Lyons while you're at it...
 

r0jaws

Mondeo Man
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Posts
7,237
Country
UK
Region
Lincolnshire
My personal opinion is that the film and movie industries have something else to sell other that the media itself, and that, is the experience.
I am happy to pay to see a movie at the cinema, I enjoy the whole experience, as it is still slightly exciting to me. The preparation and act of going out to watch a movie, usually after a meal with family or friends is something I am happy to pay for, and often do. It is the reason why people still go to the theatre, rather than just rent or buy the DVD.
Also, I enjoy live music, and will pay to go and see my favorite acts perform at a venue. Again the experience is exciting, and something that a downloaded MP3 will never replace.
An interesting business model that has been trialled by some in the music industry is to "give away" MP3s of their music, as an advertising tool for their acts.
It has worked and is profitable.
My rather laboured point is this. The industry really has to come to terms with the idea that the world has changed. The days a vinyl giving them a monopoly over how media is distributed is over. They must adapt to human nature in order to make a profitable business, otherwise they will eventually flounder and sink.
 

Zetr0

Ya' Like it Retr0?
Joined
Nov 22, 2007
Posts
9,900
Country
UK
Region
Norfolk
@AmiNeo

Indeed, another one of them.... infact I think the instigator of such practices within the UK atleast.


My rather laboured point is this. The industry really has to come to terms with the idea that the world has changed. The days a vinyl giving them a monopoly over how media is distributed is over. They must adapt to human nature in order to make a profitable business, otherwise they will eventually flounder and sink.

Indeed.... but they will kick and scream as they do.... evolution is inevitable.... its either that or they will go the way of the dinosaur.
 

AmiNeo

CodeMonkey
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Posts
7,436
Country
UK
Region
Kendal, Cumbria
ATARI
Games company Atari defended its decision to protect games from illegal copying but said Davenport Lyons was no longer acting on its behalf. Atari says: "The costs and lost revenue caused by the widespread illegal copying of games causes much damage to our industry, directly affecting the many talented creative people developing the games, and also our customers. Taking action to defend our rights is necessary, but it is very important to us that any action taken is fair and appropriate. We believed that Davenport Lyons' methods were totally reliable and accurate. We were shocked and extremely disappointed when we found that they had incorrectly accused one household of illegal copying. As a direct result we told Davenport Lyons to take no further action on our behalf."




Davenport Lyons' response
"Intellectual property theft is a serious matter and these claims are by their nature complicated. Our letters reflect this and are legally correct. We write to account holders whose IP address has been used to upload our client's copyright material onto file sharing sites, and who therefore have a strong case to answer. However, we are happy to take on board people's comments and are reviewing the content of our letters with a view to making them clearer and easier to respond to."

"Having an unsecured wireless network makes you liable for all the harm done using that network, because you set the cause for the harm done. It's comparable with installing a bath yourself in a bathroom located on a first floor flat. If it then leaks and water goes into the flat below, causing damage to property, you will be liable for all the damage caused." "We believe that letters are only sent to people who are liable for the copyright infringement of our product."
 

Zetr0

Ya' Like it Retr0?
Joined
Nov 22, 2007
Posts
9,900
Country
UK
Region
Norfolk
Ahhhh yes I remember reading that statement from DPL a long while back...

I remember the classic bath-leak rebuttle -

"having your internet stolen and used to infringe on anothers copyright it is akin to having your car stolen and used in a bank job... you did not intend it - nor did you authorise it, but according to this so-called practice at law you are responsible... I believe that they need more practice!"

I have a lot of anger and frustration at these so-called solicitors at law... they deliberately lie in their statements to the public

"Intellectual property theft is a serious matter and these claims are by their nature complicated."

you see... it is NOT THEFT, it is infringement.... the two couldn't be more different -


A theft is prosecuted by the state under criminal court where as infringement is tried under civil court. Its companies like this that demar and poisens a profession by exploiting the ignorance of the people... they attack the weak, infirim and destitute.... the very people they should be protecting.... they are not even worthy of my contempt!

its such a shame, I have met some very good people that are involved in law and its people like the above that totally well.... you get the picture.

I remember reading the huge web out-cry on this and its other companies trying to cash in on speculative invoicing scheme - I know it got to the house of lords and then ignored in the house of commons, but did the SRA ever pull their finger out and prosecute those solicitors that sent out those epic-scarmongering letters?
 

AmiNeo

CodeMonkey
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Posts
7,436
Country
UK
Region
Kendal, Cumbria
its such a shame, I have met some very good people that are involved in law and its people like the above that totally well.... you get the picture.
... Cra* on everything they stand for? :LOL:


As i recall they were booted out of several European countries because the courts got tired of it before coming here to the UK and working for some local games companies (Atari were the main one i'm aware of). Lots of people (including people i knew) paid their 'settlement fees' without contesting, out of fear of being taken to court.
A number of people challenged their accusations and had their cases dropped, Davenport proceeded to go after people they didnt get a response from and took it to court where the defendants never turned up and wound up getting fines including legal fees some totaling as much as £16,000.

After a couple (aged 70 or close to it) were accused of downloading a game and sent their computer to a forensics to prove the game hadnt been on their computer, Atari apparently broke off their involvment with Davenport in embarassment, probably after realising that a public IP address is a point of access more a kin to a resevoir than a faucet. (you can fence off the resevoir but you can't prove it is the owner that drinks from it) and masked IP addresses could easily report addresses which belong to innocent people when traced or logged. A MAC address would be needed to trace the exact computer (which is untracable over IP networks beyond the immediate network segment the computer resides in) and network cards which hold the MAC address can be swapped out anyways.

I think other companies pretty much followed suit after Davenport were labelled 'bullies' by most media covering the cases and so far as i know they faded away. I havent heard anything for a long time.

---------- Post added at 01:35 ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 ----------

As many of us in IT know, plenty of 1D-10T people leave their wireless networks open with their SSID broadcasting, and WEP and WPA1 can be hacked by the right programs.
A lot of people they targetted were probably guilty to an extent but many were innocent, only guilty of posessing an IP address which was being faked somewhere else or having had their network hijacked.

It took a long time and a lot of broken wallets but eventually companies Davenport were working for must have figured out that Davenport really didn't have a way to tell the guilty from the innocent and were going the wrong way about it.

---------- Post added at 01:56 ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 ----------

I just found this on the interwebs after searching google for their activity, which is a copy of one of the letters which were sent out to the unlucky individials...


http://torrentfreak.com.nyud.net:8080//images/20070414093506062-1.pdf
 

Zetr0

Ya' Like it Retr0?
Joined
Nov 22, 2007
Posts
9,900
Country
UK
Region
Norfolk
LMFAO!!!!

An access DataBase!!!!! OMG!!! thats their logging system LMAO!!!!!!!

Thats just to damn funny!!!!

(btw for those of you at home scratching your head.... an access database is no admissible in court as it has no means of record time stamping other than what the user of the database puts in) ...

I have read some absolute abhorent crap in my time, but that letter really does sumize the Davenport Lyons method is all about extortion!
 

AmiNeo

CodeMonkey
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Posts
7,436
Country
UK
Region
Kendal, Cumbria
Yup, and too many people fell for their scare tactics. It's saddening that they made so much from it.

---------- Post added at 02:21 ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 ----------

Kinda wish i was a lawyer back when they were operating :LOL:
 

moijk

Licence to fish
AmiBayer
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Posts
2,411
Country
Norway
Region
Grimstad
(I've branched this from the 'Worst Amiga Hardware' thread, as it veers off topic)

In regards to the film and music industry, if you look at the basic economics of it, piracy (as opposed to perfectly acceptable backing up of items you own) affects smaller copyright holders more than it does larger copyright holders. A large company can spend a few million on making and promoting a Coldplay record and know that for every 5 times it is pirated, they will get one sale, and they can sell several million on a fairly tight margin and still make a healthy profit. For a small company that might expect say 5000 sales on a product, if 4 thousand or so are lost to piracy then they might not even cover their costs.

@jumpy

In the UK:

Your statutory right enables you the right to back up software that you have a license too. Anything that inhibits this right is infringing on your statutory right.

The same is not for music or movies I am afraid to say, these large corperate congloms have managed to erode these rights over the last 60 years.. thus you are not entitled to back up music or movies that you legally own.

I have ripped my entire music collection, and keeps buying cds whenever I want new music. I use spotify to listen to artist I just want to hear more of, and if it is one hit wonders I buy them on itunes. But digital music has rip-off prices compared to music on cds unless your buying the newly released stuff - which in that case is priced quite similar.

Lets say the last cd I bought. Iron Maidens new Final fronteer. I paid 8.95 gbp. it will cost me 80 NOK to buy the album on itunes. So lets do the math:

8.95 GBP is 86.92 NOK

So I save 6.92 if I buy the album digitally. And then I don't get the same product, lyrics and whatever they trow into the jewel cover, nothing to put in the shelf and I rip the record in lossless getting that extra edge over the great, but not lossless-great AAC encoding in itunes. I can get the mp3 version for about 6.95 GBP which is about 67 NOK. But still, 20 NOK is not enough to make me choose digital over physical media I can rip to even better digital.
 

AmiNeo

CodeMonkey
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Posts
7,436
Country
UK
Region
Kendal, Cumbria
Yup, and you can't put a price on a shiny hardcopy safely tucked away on your shelf for when disaster strikes. :LOL:
 
Top Bottom