Another PP 'beware' saga

[tbtorro]

Today PP sent me a warning that it's not allowed to use 'personal' payments for goods. It's a copy-paste text talking about the advantages of buyer and seller protection bla-bla.. What they do not talk about is their horrendous fees and exchange rates, and pointlessness of paying them if both parties have a PayPal balance (in which case the payment is free - well almost, they still charge various 'cross border' and other crappy fees).

Now my suspicion is that they are sending this out to several users who receive personal payments in order to push them to switch to commercial transactions and generate extra profit.

When I asked them to tell me which one of my transactions do THEY think was commercial and was sent as personal, they couldn't (didn't want to?) answer, sent them 4 messages re-phrasing the same question, and they just kept sending _bullshit copy-paste text, it's like talking to a wall, or a bunch of monkeys. So pis5ed now, as they are threatening to disable personal payments on my account if they judge 'continue to receive these type of payments'..

Did anyone else has experience with similar tatics / situation? I'm seriously thinking to ditch them now (however problematic that would be) and switch to whatever.

 

[slk486]

There is no difference in fees between personal and business transfers these days. It amounts to the same.

 

[tbtorro]

There is no difference in fees between personal and business transfers these days. It amounts to the same.

Yes there is. If the sender has a PayPal balance in the same currency, in the same country then personal payment is still free. However, if there is a currency conversion or the payment is to another country outside of EU then there is some fees applied, but still much less than funding from CC or bank account, and considerably less than a 'goods' payment.

 

[slk486]

Yes there is. If the sender has a PayPal balance in the same currency, in the same country then personal payment is still free. However, if there is a currency conversion or the payment is to another country outside of EU then there is some fees applied, but still much less than funding from CC or bank account, and considerably less than a 'goods' payment.

Ah, fair point - I never have any balance these days, so I am always funding from CC, where there is no difference.

 

[SpeedGeek]

What has likely happened here, is that your total number of "Personal" payments is larger than what Paypal considers to be a nominal amount and therefore raised their suspicion.

I would suggest you try to reduce your number of personal payments (at least temporarily) and then go back to your normal level of payments later. It's also a good idea to avoid any payment comments which imply a goods purchase (e.g. Payment for item(s) sent, etc.).

Good luck!

 

[Deleted member 14264]

Today PP sent me a warning that it's not allowed to use 'personal' payments for goods.

The first question that pops in my mind is: How do they know ? What information did your customers leave in the comment section that allows them (PP) to know the customer is not paying for a service or just information or giving you a tip ?

They may also go by statistics. If you send and receive a lot of money every months and 99% of it is personal payments then it sure seems weird.

No, I never had this problem. I do take good notice it can happen.

 

[tbtorro]

Today PP sent me a warning that it's not allowed to use 'personal' payments for goods.

The first question that pops in my mind is: How do they know ? What information did your customers leave in the comment section that allows them (PP) to know the customer is not paying for a service or just information or giving you a tip ?

They may also go by statistics. If you send and receive a lot of money every months and 99% of it is personal payments then it sure seems weird.

No, I never had this problem. I do take good notice it can happen.

As I said I've tried to ask them multiple times but they don't answer (just send copy paste crap) so I don't know. I have very few payments that has anything in the comments that would imply goods, so I'm guessing it's statistics. Besides what IS a 'lot of money'? I don't know that either.

 

[Amon_RA]

We should all just switch to bitcoin

 

[tbtorro]

We should all just switch to bitcoin

If it was as widespread and easy to do transactions as PP I would in an instant. Unfortunately switching to any other e-payment method have the same problem - it's a catch 22. Unless somebody comes up with something that offers something significantly better than PP (causing people to flock to them) this will go on.

 

[Amon_RA]

Bitcoin transactions are as easy as PP imo. The only thing you need to send money is someone's bitcoin address (similar to PayPal). You even have smartphone apps (see pictures attached) that make everything so simple...

Most Asian markets already use Bitcoin, and I think it will expand much further as more people start using it.

The fact that the value of bitcoin has been raising faster than any other currency makes it very attractive too.

 

[BLTCON0]

Bitcoin behaves more like stock than currency. It's risen up in relative price due to the rise in need for it. As alternatives possibly get more widespread, it will naturally devalue. It's no coincidence that even bitcoin evangelists in a hurry to speak of its advantages over regular currency, still speak of its (possible) value far in the future relative to regular currency (esp. USD) instead of stating it will have replaced it.
For me bitcoin is no different than any other banking "product" and I certainly don't buy into its hype.
Sure during the past years some have made a small fortune on bitcoin but this is no different from any other opportunistic means - the big picture is different, once a certain saturation point is reached, either due to bitcoin itself or (sooner) due to the escalation of similar alternatives, it'll be like bacteria fighting over the same resources.
I can see 3 possible models:


1. bitcoin saturates the alternative currency market (practically) on its own, this implies an exponential or sub-exponential growth in relative price for the time being which means the saturation point is very near (and as such fortune-making possibilities relative to regular currency are slim at best). Once saturation is reached, it'll more or less retain its "value" for as long as it's preferred as a alternative monetary transaction means AND the transactions volume in bitcoins is large enough to sustain circulation of all created bitcoins (i.e. there are no stagnant ones).


2. bitcoin and some other alternatives saturate the alternative currency market, this implies that the momentum of the alternative solutions will likely be higher at saturation point, so after peaking at saturation point bitcoin's value will asymptotically decline to some significantly lower limit value (under the same conditions as case 1). [interaction between bitcoin and others is assumed minimal here, i.e. bitcoin alternatives' user base is fresh and not bitcoin-converts]


3. bitcoin's share at saturation point isn't large enough, so it'll degenerate and vanish, most likely in a steep linear fashion (under the same conditions as case 1). [interaction between bitcoin and others is significant here, i.e. a large portion of bitcoin alternatives' user base is bitcoin-converts]


Just my 2 bitcoins, sorry, cents


P.S. A 4-th model of course is just before any of the above has been realised (=right before people can see where things are heading to) an all-new-cool-user-friendly-how-did-we-live-without-it-so-far payment method emerges and wipes out everything, except for the dust in people's eyes.

 

[thebajaguy]

PayPal is about as far as I prefer to go into electronic payment. No, I'm not a fan of them, but having 3, 4, 5 or more alternate (but effectively similar) payment routes, I consider a security risk - particularly if they all have direct access into a personal bank account. Honestly, keeping track of all of them, their logins (I never use a common login/pwd combo in two different systems) is an annoyance. I do corporate IT for a living, and I go through compliance-required password changes like cold beer on a hot weekend. I've forgotten more passwords in a year than I remember on a given day.

A consideration for what may be setting off their alarms is that in the country/state/municipality that you legally reside (or transacted with), they may have tax laws that they have to abide by (or more likely, you or the other party do). If they see a few thousands of dollars of 'gifts' transacted in a tax year, it may need to be reported in some fashion, gift or not. There is also the issue of electronically profiling transactions over a period of time in order to spot illegal activities on anonymous transactions - which I'm not implying any of the sort is happening here - but from their blind side perspective, it may mimic other suspicious activity (drugs, trafficking, currency laundering) which they are required to report.

I'm not sure if this might help, but I agree with the sentiment that the gift method should have no obvious verbiage, or imply in some way, that a product sale is occurring. It may even be best to just make separate accounts - one where you transact 'business', cover fees, and bequeath unto Caesar what is due if that is the transaction path of choice. The other you strictly funnel your gifts through, or offer them out.

I mainly buy these days, but I choose gift / purchase, and even from balance or from credit card, based on the level of trust I have for the other party, the amount involved, the shipping means, and the origin of the item.

 

[fitzsteve]

I only use PayPal to send money to friends these days so it's always as 'gift' (friends/family) and it's free to send even with no balance if you use 'Instant Bank Funding' they just take the money by direct debit a few days later. I've been using that for years and have never paid fees. I agree on the exchange rate though, theirs really does suck (especially when converting your balance) which is why when I was selling I always asked for payment in GBP unless I knew I was going to buying something in EUR or USD I would accept the payment and buy in that currency to save the fees 3 ways. It's a long time since I traded on that scale though, nowadays it's just the odd 20 quid to a friend for a game or something.