C64 Breadbin... Any Good?

Powerpie5000

Hardware Junkie™
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Posts
2,653
Country
UK
Region
Lancashire
Is the old "breadbin" C64 better than the later C64? I'm asking as i bought a nice clean breadbin style C64 last night on the other bay... It was an impulse buy and i'm hoping i made the right choice! The other C64 i was looking at was the later model that came as a Terminator 2 pack, but i chose the old breadbin instead :D

As far as i can tell the only "major" differences are the case design and the Sid audio chip. Many people claim the 6851 Sid is better than the later 8580 Sid... Is this really true? or is it just a matter of personal preference? I've only ever used the later model C64 and don't really know much about them at all! As i said, it was an impulse buy :roll:

Anyway it comes with the original box, manuals, datasette, joystick and a load of games... Can't wait till it arrives :)
 

dabone

Member
AmiBayer
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Posts
180
Country
United Stated
Region
Chattanooga, TN 37421
It's personal preference. I have both, but I still use my 128 more.
To me there is not a huge difference in sids, but I mainly use the 8bits for games and not audio.

Later,
dabone
 

commodorejohn

Shameless recidivist
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Posts
1,607
Country
United States
Region
Minnesota
The difference between SIDs is pretty much in the filter, IIRC, but it is a pretty noticeable difference. One's not really better or worse than the other on a strict merit level, but more software is tuned for the quirks of the 6581 filter than for the 8580.
 

Powerpie5000

Hardware Junkie™
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Posts
2,653
Country
UK
Region
Lancashire
To me there is not a huge difference in sids, but I mainly use the 8bits for games and not audio.

My C64 will be used primarily for gaming but i'd like my games to sound as they were intended :)

The difference between SIDs is pretty much in the filter, IIRC, but it is a pretty noticeable difference. One's not really better or worse than the other on a strict merit level, but more software is tuned for the quirks of the 6581 filter than for the 8580.

So does this mean some (or most) games will sound a bit odd using the 8580 chip... and vice-versa? I've listended to quite a few Sid chip tunes now, and i think both Sid versions sound great! I wonder how many games were tuned for the 8580 chip?

I've listened to a few comparisons and to me it seems the 8580 has the edge with game music (louder and more detailed/crisp sound)... but i prefer the looks of the breadbin C64 :D
 

SkydivinGirl

Retro Girl
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Posts
7,069
Country
USA
Region
Raleigh, NC
Pretty much everyone here is correct. The only real technical difference is the SID. Even though I believe the 6581 is a better sounding chip, I still use a C128 for my primary 8-Bit Commodore. I do, however, have a Breadbin C64 that I use for SID music. :)

Hope this helps.

Heather
 

Paradroid

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Posts
5
Country
UK
Region
Lancashire
I remember hearing a game (can't remember which) where part of the music or sound effects were missing on the C64C with the newer SID. It's a nicer machine to type on though!
 

dabone

Member
AmiBayer
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Posts
180
Country
United Stated
Region
Chattanooga, TN 37421
Pretty much everyone here is correct. The only real technical difference is the SID. Even though I believe the 6581 is a better sounding chip, I still use a C128 for my primary 8-Bit Commodore. I do, however, have a Breadbin C64 that I use for SID music. :smile:

Hope this helps.

Heather

What kind of 128 do you use? My flat has a 6581 sid. (I think all of the flat 128's had this correct?) and the 128dcr had a 8580.

later,
dabone
 

SkydivinGirl

Retro Girl
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Posts
7,069
Country
USA
Region
Raleigh, NC
Pretty much everyone here is correct. The only real technical difference is the SID. Even though I believe the 6581 is a better sounding chip, I still use a C128 for my primary 8-Bit Commodore. I do, however, have a Breadbin C64 that I use for SID music. :smile:

Hope this helps.

Heather
What kind of 128 do you use? My flat has a 6581 sid. (I think all of the flat 128's had this correct?) and the 128dcr had a 8580.
You know, I never checked. I have the flat 128. I just thought all 128s had the 8580. I'll have to double check the next time I have my system open. :D

Heather
 

Powerpie5000

Hardware Junkie™
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Posts
2,653
Country
UK
Region
Lancashire
I remember hearing a game (can't remember which) where part of the music or sound effects were missing on the C64C with the newer SID

I read somewhere that sound samples such as speech and some sound effects are extremely quiet with the 8580 sid. Musicians and game developers apparently exploited a bug in the original 6581 to create extra audio effects such as sampled speech etc... These samples don't work too well with the "corrected" 8580. Not sure how accurate this info is?

My breadbin C64 has still not arrived yet. These lame courier companies try to blame "adverse weather conditions" when Royal Mail seem to be delivering my items just 1~2 days after i order them in the same weather... go figure :dry:
 

MZ3540

New member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Posts
223
Country
Australia
Region
Echuca, VIC
I read somewhere that sound samples such as speech and some sound effects are extremely quiet with the 8580 sid. Musicians and game developers apparently exploited a bug in the original 6581 to create extra audio effects such as sampled speech etc... These samples don't work too well with the "corrected" 8580. Not sure how accurate this info is?

That info is totally correct (y)

The 6581 had a flaw which made it produce a DC offset, by modulating the volume registers a sound sample could be played. As you said above, the flaw was corrected in the 8580.

Fire up 'Skate or Die' or 'Turbo Outrun' and listen to the difference between both chips... This can even be done in Vice or Sidplay if you fiddle with the emulation settings

EDIT- I forgot to mention, the 8580 based C64 can be easily modified to make sample work properly.
 

Powerpie5000

Hardware Junkie™
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Posts
2,653
Country
UK
Region
Lancashire
Well, my C64 arrived about 10 minutes ago :)

It all looks in great condition but have noticed a couple of things:

1. Why is there a seperate metal wire with a loop coming from the Commodore C2N (1530) datasette cable? It looks like a ground cable but there's nowhere on the C64 to attach it... and it's not mentoned in the manual :huh: I wonder if this wire/cable is for use with the old Commodore PET systems?

2. I looked in the vents underneath the C64 and the green motherboard PCB looks quite "wrinkled"... Is this something to worry about? And what causes it? I remember my old Amstrad CPC also having a "wrinkly" looking motherboard.

I will fire it up soon and test it out... there's a nice big selection of games that came with it :)
 

Powerpie5000

Hardware Junkie™
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Posts
2,653
Country
UK
Region
Lancashire
It works great! Just fired it up and have been playing some dodgy old game called "Phantom of the Asteroids" :D

I must say the volume is quite loud on this compared to the other systems i have linked to my TV... The audio is excellent :)
 

Paradroid

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Posts
5
Country
UK
Region
Lancashire
1. Why is there a seperate metal wire with a loop coming from the Commodore C2N (1530) datasette cable? It looks like a ground cable but there's nowhere on the C64 to attach it... and it's not mentoned in the manual :huh: I wonder if this wire/cable is for use with the old Commodore PET systems?

Yeah that's completely normal it just stays unattached. You used to be able to use it to hit a pin on the cartridge port and reset the machine, but don't try it! Get it wrong and it's repair time!
 
Top Bottom