C64 reloaded by Jens

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johnim

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http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/C64_reloaded


The Commodore 64 will celebrate it's 32nd birthday this year, and that's a significant birthday for a Computer: If written in hexadecimal notation, 32 becomes $20. After such a long time, more and more C64 boards are failing and can't be repaired any more: Even after exchanging all chips, a board may still not work. A possible cause for this is a defect of the circuit board, which is extremely tedious and expensive to find and fix.

We will therefore produce new C64 mainboards shortly. We have kept close to the schematics of Commodore Assy number 250466, because this version is accepted to be the best compromise between cost savings and compatibility. We have only changed the circuit in very few places, so production is still possible with parts that are available today.

C64 Reloaded will fit in all original C64 cases: The classic "breadbox" cases and the flat versions of the case that were used in later production years. We've had a positive surprise when measuring the power consumtion, because our new mainboard uses modern DC-DC converter technology: We use an EuP-compliant 12V DC wall power supply that will use less than 0.3W(*) in standby. The original C64 requires 3.9W(*) in standby, and when powered on, power consumption rises to 21.6W(*). Our C64 Reloaded only takes about 5,7 Watt(*) - roughly a quarter of what the original computer required, despite the fact that we're using the original Commodore chips. This economical approach doesn't mean "weak" in any way: The DC-DC converters have lots of power reserve to supply even very power-hungry expansions like the "Super CPU" or the Commodore memory expansions 1750 or 1764.

The C64 Reloaded does not come with a TV-Modulator. There's an S-Video output in it's place, and audio is passed to the outside world through a 3.5mm stereo plug, which lets you use standard audio equipment. The known connectors for joysticks, cartridges, monitor, floppy drives, data cassette and userport are of course available on C64 Reloaded.

C64 Reloaded will be shipped partly assembled: The processor (CPU) and the sound chip (SID) are not included and need to be put into ZIF-sockets by the customer. The PLA and video chips are also in zero-insertion-force sockets, so they can be exchanged easily. As opposed to the original computer, our board can be jumpered between PAL and NTSC without the need to solder anything. By customer request, the board can be equipped with two Kernal ROMs and two character ROMs, which can be chosen by pressing and holding the Restore key. This way, you can use popular speeders and localizations such as German and Swedish Umlauts.

Although we strive to replicate the C64 as close to the original as possible, we've introduced a technical innovation: A video effect known as "VSP-effect" to the C64 scene leads to intermittent crashes of some C64 models, which is also known as the "VSP-bug". On customer request, C64 Reloaded can be equipped with the VSP-Fix: It consists of an additional chip that is plugged into a socket of our new mainboard.

C64 Reloaded will be available in limited quantity starting july 2014 for 149,90 EUR(**). We will start taking pre-orders soon.

800px-C64_reloaded_proto1_small.JPG
 
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seen it.

im not really all that interested as the board is shipped incomplete without cpu and sid,and has to be sourced at an extra cost.(including the case and keyboard)

i'll stick to the original,as ive said on eab,im not that big of a fan to warrant that sort of money for a remake or an original design.

its nice,but...no thanks,i'll just keep using the original.

cant see any benefit for having this,apart from the a newer power supply,for that sort of money,i expect a fully working board out the box and not have to source parts before i can turn it on.
 
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It seems to be acceptable as of late to criticise and/or discuss the price of new items on Amibay but not used items, is this OK? I think a moderator needs to confirm this.

I think it's great that new items are coming to us, but I tire of reading negative comments about the prices of this new kit. Do you have any idea how much it costs to develop and produce new hardware especially in limited quantities?

If you can't afford it or think it's too expensive vote with your wallet and don't buy it.
 
steve,i know you like everything jens sells mate along with alot of others.but that is not the point the discussion is about this product in general.

there is nothing really there that is new,it actually uses alot of the original parts mate.

and for what it is,and what else people have to get after you pay for it.
i mean,i had to ask about this bug that's apparent lately that no-one cared about for 30 years.

whats the point of an open forum if i have to worry about upsetting the fan base every five minutes,it don't make any sense.
it would be like saying look at this but don't talk about it unless its something good,that is no good.we are all adults and everyone has an opinion.

and i don't want my opinion stripped from me.when it is not an offensive negative comment.
 
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Given that this is a modification of an existing design that is still easily available all over the place, surely the price is as much a consideration as the specifications?

As Roy said, would that mean we couldn't evaluate any new hardware at all, because ultimately any criticism could be perceived as negativity / harming sales?
 
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Sure, everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but as I've been told myself at times; you must be careful to write in as precisely as possible, making sure that your messages reflect your true feelings as accurately as possible, and even though I'm certain that Roy's comment wasn't intended to read as negatively as it comes across, it does in fact read as a complete condemning of C64 Forever, and as such is bound to ignite a few flames here and there.

I'm sure that Steve's worry is that Jens is likely to read Roy's comment and conclude that if that's how everyone in this particular den feels then he might decide that his services are no longer welcome.

I'd love to see this sold complete with a plastic case/keyboard at some point in the future.
 
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Surely Jen's only consideration would be the sales, not the opinions here. I can see an item like this selling out, even if just as a collector's item.
 
No it just seems the community shoot down a lot of new idea's based on price. It's fact that producing small quantities of hardware is expensive.

My question was also to the site, we have a price driving rule here but it seems not to apply to new products, if that's the case feel free to discuss the price as much as you like.

But I think it needs clarity becuase I can't discuss how many PC's you can buy for the amount of a Blizzard PPC but I can discuss how many PC's you can buy for an X1000?

IMHO if we have this rule it should be applied evenly across the site, not just in used items.
 
I agree. The price should not be a factor. A product should be judged by it's individual merit, and not by how much it costs to buy.
 
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I agree. The price should not be a factor. A product should be judged by it's individual merit, and not by how much it costs to buy.

In which case the product doesn't have much merit because it's so easy to pick up a C64 with SID and CPU :cool:
 
Surely Jen's only consideration would be the sales, not the opinions here. I can see an item like this selling out, even if just as a collector's item.

I'd be interested to know what you base this particular speculation on. The way I see it is that if he was only bothered about profit at all then he wouldn't bother with the Amiga at all.
 
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Yes this is AmiBay and price discussions are NOT to be done on the site.

This product will certainly garner interest from collectors, especially since its a limited number of units.

Personally I do not feel this is a cost-effective solution en masses, but this is assuredly a collectors solution and its this the product is marketed for.
 
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In which case the product doesn't have much merit because it's so easy to pick up a C64 with SID and CPU :cool:

Merits based on post 1:


  • [*]It's new

    [*]S--Video output

    [*]Consumes less power when on

    [*]Good looking compact board

    [*]VSP-Fix option

    [*]Supporting Jens​


 
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Surely Jen's only consideration would be the sales, not the opinions here. I can see an item like this selling out, even if just as a collector's item.

I'd be interested to know what you base this particular speculation on. The way I see it is that if he was only bothered about profit at all then he wouldn't bother with the Amiga at all.

I'm not second guessing anyone's motives or saying anyone is profit-mad. But as a solution to a broken C64 motherboard, an item like this seems rather sledgehammer / nut. Therefore I would assume most buyers would be collectors. Maybe I'm totally wrong!
 
Sure, everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but as I've been told myself at times; you must be careful to write in as precisely as possible, making sure that your messages reflect your true feelings as accurately as possible, and even though I'm certain that Roy's comment wasn't intended to read as negatively as it comes across, it does in fact read as a complete condemning of C64 Forever, and as such is bound to ignite a few flames here and there.

I'm sure that Steve's worry is that Jens is likely to read Roy's comment and conclude that if that's how everyone in this particular den feels then he might decide that his services are no longer welcome.

I'd love to see this sold complete with a plastic case/keyboard at some point in the future.

surely that would imply jens was paranoid,and i think he is not.

my comment does not condemn the product or condone it.it uses the same parts as the original does in the exact same way but with a modern power supply.
only you have to source parts to make it functional.

im not sure what it has to do with c64 forever though.
 
I meant C64 Reloaded, not C64 Forever. Whoops!

I don't know why listening to posts in a forum would mean that he's paranoid. Not that being paranoid should be held against anyone anyway. In fact I find that stance a little ridiculous, because if you're not supposed to listen to what people write in a forum, then what is the point in writing in the forum in the first place?

It's not how I took it when I've been asked (ordered) to modify my posts. In fact I considered the possibility that people might be paranoid when reading my posts. Instead, doing my best to cater for them.

The way I see it is that it's more important to do what you can to get your intended point across, and happiness is also an important factor too.

We're all here to have a good time and hear what each other have to say. It's always going to get a little heated here and there, but it needn't be unpleasant overall.
 
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I have to agree with Roy.

jens done the same with the ACA500, in my opinion the 2mb ram was decided not on a cost issue but on the reliance that a lot of users would then attach another jens product aca range to make it useful.

this C64 is worse, i would have expected at least rgb / vga output ? built in sd2iec ? C128 built in ?

although i am grateful that jens is making new products for our retro equipment my own personal opinion says its for profit, if it was for the community he would have listened to the users on what they would have wanted, ie, 4mb/8mb ram on aca500 etc. the lack of ram on the aca500 almost forces you to strip down a workbench install to get whdload working at all.

I dont know what to say about price comments as i am a mod i have to be careful what i say, but this isnt price driving as such as its a new product and many questions would arise because of the functionality of the new hardware, missing chips, just the motherboard etc ? ideal for a repair i guess but a whole new product with no benefits over the old design ?
 
In which case the product doesn't have much merit because it's so easy to pick up a C64 with SID and CPU :cool:

Merits based on post 1:

  • It's new
  • S--Video output(the original has this)
  • Consumes less power when on
  • Good looking compact board(same size as original)
  • VSP-Fix option(which is? after 30 years?)
  • Supporting Jens

im still left wondering what this vsp fix actually is,to the average user.
 
He is a business, not a charity of course he has to make some money. All of the mentioned points equal good business sense.

Maybe we should set up the Amiga users charity fund group a not for profit organisation to keep prices down and create great new items with only the end user in mind?

Sorry this is the real world, there are share holders to pay, employees to pay, running costs, taxes, etc, etc.
 
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