Chinon HD drive won't read HD floppies?

[ptp170]

Or just stick a USB stick in the scope and press the screenshot button?

Bryce.

This event occurs between you physically inserting a disk and the drive motor spinning up.

The purple trace is pin 9 on the CIA (ignore the PAUL[a] label) and the yellow is at the floppy interface. I looked at both areas just in case something was interfering between both points

The first image is what happens with a DD disk. 'Strange' result which is what i was kind of seeing last night.



The second image is what happens with a HD disk. 16 pulses low to high.



I'm a bit stumped!!

 

[Bryce]

Well captured, looks like you've got to grips with the scope already The first signal is very suspect. Considering it's going into a TTL input it's random at best, but it's too structured to be simple noise. So something has failed somewhere, it's like a pulsed connection to a discharging capacitor.

Bryce.

 

[ptp170]

I took it to work to play around with on my lunch break so I could get used to it

I was expecting the HD signal to be strange and not the DD one. I will dismantle and probe further

- - - Updated - - -

Out of curiousity I've looked at the RDY line on the Teac drive that originally came with the 1200 and also a modified Sony MPF920-E and there is no signal before the motor spins up.

 

[ptp170]

But of an update, I didn't realise HD functionality was supported in the 2.04 ROM. I've used the drive in my restored A500+ and it works flawlessly!

So, that eliminates the HD drive as being the issue. I've got some 3.0 ROMS on the way plus another motherboard so should be able to identify what the culprit is before long.
If it still refuses to work then I've ordered a set of Panasonic capacitors and see if that solves the problem..

The HD ID burst on the 500+ is exactly the same as measured on the 1200..

Keep tuned folkes, I've not given up....

 

[BLTCON0]

Out of curiousity I've looked at the RDY line on the Teac drive that originally came with the 1200 and also a modified Sony MPF920-E and there is no signal before the motor spins up.

Correct, no standard DD drive includes an ID mechanism. That's an Amiga-specific requirement.
For "internal" (unit 0) drives the DD ID is not a requirement, for "external" (unit 1/2/3) drives a NAND gate suffices as the ID is all 0s. If you want to see the complete external drive interfacing, take a look at the A2000 schematics, both motor handling via a flip-flop and ID generation via NAND are shown there because the 2nd internal drive is by all means 100% the same as an external drive for the A500.

 

[ptp170]

Right, epic update time.

New capacitors in the 1200 - No change
3.0 ROMS - No change
New 2B motherboard tried with 3.0 and 3.1 ROMS - No change

So it's either something to do with the 1200's architecture or something in the ROMs that can't quite figure out the signal from the HD floppy. As posted previously, the drive works perfectly in a 500 plus...

One is a tad stumped!

 

[BLTCON0]

Yes it doesn't make much sense. But the A1200 architecture doesn't have any issue - with respect to the floppy, the architecture is basically the same as the A500's. And of course there's nothing wrong with the ROMs.
The logical conclusion is 2000 years ago someone placed a curse on you
Maybe you can test it as an external drive. If you have a casing that takes standard Amiga drives, you'll just have to bypass the PCB's RDY segment and wire it directly (to avoid having the PCB erroneously present the drive as a DD one).

 

[ptp170]

Yes it doesn't make much sense. But the A1200 architecture doesn't have any issue - with respect to the floppy, the architecture is basically the same as the A500's. And of course there's nothing wrong with the ROMs.
The logical conclusion is 2000 years ago someone placed a curse on you
Maybe you can test it as an external drive. If you have a casing that takes standard Amiga drives, you'll just have to bypass the PCB's RDY segment and wire it directly (to avoid having the PCB erroneously present the drive as a DD one).

This has turned out to be the most expensive floppy drive in history so far!

Still suspicious about the trackdisk library in the ROMS however. Those two links on Page 2 hinted at ID issues nearly twenty years ago so maybe its related to an early revision of the 357A drive?

I think I'll try and look into using the Setpatch command to use a custom trackdisk lib although I've never done this before (assuming its possible?) so any pointers from anyone would be a great help

 

[BLTCON0]

I think the confusion with ID issues was about the interpretation of the bits state, considering RDY is an active low signal.
I doubt there are two versions of the high-density ID (if I get your theory right, you're suggesting early rev FZ-357A has an HD ID "compatible" with the 2.04 ROMs while the 3.0/3.1 ROMs expect the inverse. But on the other hand, the inverse is for 5.25" drives, so a 5.25" would also appear as an 3.5" HD unit, doesn't make much sense to make such a mess, even for Commodore Furthermore, the A4000 was shipped with either the FB-357A or the FZ-357A so it's highly highly doubtful there's any "old" vs "new" scenario).

Maybe you can simply softkick the 2.04 ROM for your test?

 

[keitha]

Random, and completely uneducated thought! Try a 3.1 rom in the 500 Plus?

 

[ptp170]

I think the confusion with ID issues was about the interpretation of the bits state, considering RDY is an active low signal.
I doubt there are two versions of the high-density ID (if I get your theory right, you're suggesting early rev FZ-357A has an HD ID "compatible" with the 2.04 ROMs while the 3.0/3.1 ROMs expect the inverse. But on the other hand, the inverse is for 5.25" drives, so a 5.25" would also appear as an 3.5" HD unit, doesn't make much sense to make such a mess, even for Commodore Furthermore, the A4000 was shipped with either the FB-357A or the FZ-357A so it's highly highly doubtful there's any "old" vs "new" scenario).

Maybe you can simply softkick the 2.04 ROM for your test?

The thing is that I used a 357A with my old (now sold) 1200 1d4 with no problems thatsoever. looks like I never should have sold it

When you say softkick are you referring to something like relokick but with a 2.04 image instead of a 1.3?

- - - Updated - - -

Random, and completely uneducated thought! Try a 3.1 rom in the 500 Plus?

Unfortunately the 1200 uses two ROMs and the 500 only uses one...

 

[roy_bates]

there are 3.1 roms for the 500...yes,they come on one rom.

anyway,probably not the issue here.

 

[BLTCON0]

The thing is that I used a 357A with my old (now sold) 1200 1d4 with no problems thatsoever. looks like I never should have sold it

For some reason I was under the impression you were testing an FZ-357A! Probably because that's what could fit in an A1200 (I have one in mine).
Just re-read your 1st post and saw it's the bulky FB-357A (so I guess you're having your A1200 permanently opened up )

I have an FB-357A as well, in my A500. It also works without any problems.
I also have a second FB-357A which I bought as non-working. At first it worked fine but only as a DD drive, then a couple of days later it decided it was an HD drive too and worked correctly in HD mode as well. Didn't give it much thought as it's never failed since.
But I've never tried either drive on the A1200.

I could see HD-ID detection problems happening on those weird Escom A1200 boards which have the RDY line disconnected from the internal connector, but those are rev 1D.4 ones and IIRC you're using a rev 1B board.

When you say softkick are you referring to something like relokick but with a 2.04 image instead of a 1.3?

I had stuff like skick and zkick in mind, but sure that too - if it isn't made specifically to downgrade to 1.3.
I'm not much into software so I have no idea if that approach would even work but it seems easier than individually patching trackdisk.

 

[ptp170]

The thing is that I used a 357A with my old (now sold) 1200 1d4 with no problems thatsoever. looks like I never should have sold it

For some reason I was under the impression you were testing an FZ-357A! Probably because that's what could fit in an A1200 (I have one in mine).
Just re-read your 1st post and saw it's the bulky FB-357A (so I guess you're having your A1200 permanently opened up )

I have an FB-357A as well, in my A500. It also works without any problems.
I also have a second FB-357A which I bought as non-working. At first it worked fine but only as a DD drive, then a couple of days later it decided it was an HD drive too and worked correctly in HD mode as well. Didn't give it much thought as it's never failed since.
But I've never tried either drive on the A1200.

I could see HD-ID detection problems happening on those weird Escom A1200 boards which have the RDY line disconnected from the internal connector, but those are rev 1D.4 ones and IIRC you're using a rev 1B board.

When you say softkick are you referring to something like relokick but with a 2.04 image instead of a 1.3?

I had stuff like skick and zkick in mind, but sure that too - if it isn't made specifically to downgrade to 1.3.
I'm not much into software so I have no idea if that approach would even work but it seems easier than individually patching trackdisk.

Yes it's an FB and the case does close I will do some googling on softkicking and see what I can discover!

It's been tried on a 1B and a 2B now

 

[keitha]

there are 3.1 roms for the 500...yes,they come on one rom.

anyway,probably not the issue here.

Thanks Roy Kinda what I was thinking.

Personally? When fault find: I try to eliminate all possibilities. I'd focus on why the floppy drive works in the Plus, and not the 1200.