Computers and the internet in schools.

[Harrison]

There was a news item yesterday on the bbc about a digital divide in schools, with the poorest families not having internet or a computer at home, compared with richer families having them, giving an advantage for homework.

What so you think of this?

I personally think there is too much focus on computers and the internet within schools, and not enough on the basics. Especially in primary level education. I think children should be learning the traditional basics of reading, writing and arithmetic first, instead of worrying how to use a word processor or Google.

And for older children needing to study and research for homework, yes I can see a disadvantage in not having internet access at home, but schools have access, and often allow after school access, plus libraries and other public access to the internet exists. If I couldn't provide internet access at home for my son I would be taking him to the library to use it there and help him.

When I was growing up no one had much and our parents did as much as they could to improve or education. These days they seem to always be trying to make out it is the fault of those with a bit more money having an unfair advantage over the poor, and saying they should have the right to the same for free. Why? This isn't how life works, and they are not putting any responsibility in the direction of the parents to find alternative ways to and their childs education, rather than just during at home moaning they don't have a computer or the internet, so their child's education is suffering. the government pandering to people is not helping in the slightest.

And don't get me started with secondary schools handing out iPads. I can't afford one, so why students should get one for free is mad.

 

[80sFREAK]

They growing meat for facebook/twitter/etc.

Just wonder, how much cost(well, about) secondhand desktop/laptop PIII-xxx? Or their parents prefer to spend money on poker/buzz?

 

[Harrison]

Or Sky TV and an HDTV! All from their local legal extortionist Brighthouse.

 

[scrappysphinx]

As said by 80sFREAK, older computers are still capable of use for the internet and homework. My family are in no way "well off", in fact i would consider us to be in the poorer class (I have in the last year gone without food and turned off the heating to make sure my daughters get what they need), but we get by and i do my damned hardest to get my daughters whatever they need for school and if i wasn't able to provide my daughters with the internet or a computer i would take them to the local library.

 

[ratfink]

My kids are at secondary school. Home pc use is practically mandatory for a lot of homework in years 7-9, usually involving needless web searching and then printing off full colour a4 size pictures, sometimes they are asked for several pages. Lazy idiotic incomptent teachers wasting parents resources /rant. This is normally english or art or history, tempting to draw allusions to airheaded artsy-fartsiness. Actual IT homework from the IT lessons almost never happens - ironically they did use scratch briefly for simple programming homework and enjoyed it, but the IT curriculum is generally deathly boring.

In years 10 + 11 they make a lot of use of on-line [school server] tests and exam papers especially science and maths, actually seems really useful. Do wonder how people without pc's can cope. Still a bit of the needless longwinded websearching and FULL SOLID COLOUR PRINTING for history /rant. Worries me that my kids don't seem to use books at school, and that web use leads to distractions.

At earlier stages in school - don't recall any homework, and could not see point of schools having pcs tbh.

 

[User1301]

I'm quite fortunate that my daughter's school is very good at ensuring the kids are performing well (and in most cases - well above) against the requirements for the national curriculum. All of the basics are covered and encouraged (she's 11 and in her last year of primary school and knows more maths than I do!). They do have computers in the ICT lab but in no way is her homework dependent on her having computer access at home.

Of course - in saying all that - being a daughter of a geek like me I've been again fortunate enough to provide well for her and the family in that respect and there are computers all over the house to use, and she has her own. She does play games, watch TV etc like most kids but because of how we approach this - she also plays the flute, violin, keyboard, draws and paints, reads and writes her own stories (and a lot of that is because of the availability of the technology).

As long as it's used properly and the kids aren't allowed to just play games and surf the web then the technology is a great thing but for schooling it shouldn't be a requirement.

Cheers

John

 

[commodorejohn]

I never used a computer for schoolwork until I got into college. We did everything either in the workbook or on scratch paper. And it did not hurt me a bit. I still developed good computer skills on my own through normal use and experimentation, and I still got a solid education, because I was taught at home by my dad, who had a personal stake in my well-being and my academic future.

Nobody worth listening to thinks this kind of busywork is important, not even teachers (the good ones, anyway.) This is just another bunch of trend-worshipping educational middle-managers moaning because they're not getting to be in the Cool Educational Professionals Club where they do all the trendy futurey stuff like this because of all those benighted parents who aren't getting with their program.

 

[supaduper]

The hand written word must and should be as an important skill as the typed word, Luckily for most of us we can do both skills.

What is worrying I saw the tv item where the school uses nothing but ipads ! and no pens or paper !, definately disconected thinking here, the school thinks its being really clever by using the technology and of course the kids love it,but the problems will arrise, so to communicate you need an ipad?! ,pathetic.

Like calculators they are an aid not a must ! and we must never lose sight of that important fact

 

[kensplace]

Its unfair in a way as its easier for the richest kids (no doubt taught dodgy morals by rich parents) to cheat on homework using google, compared to those without internet....

Then again, I don't believe computers should be allowed for homework, it should be all hand written.

We had beebs and pets at school (not many) before that in junior school no computer at all - I had to code imaginary machines on paper only for fun.

 

[moijk]

I never used a computer for schoolwork until I got into college. We did everything either in the workbook or on scratch paper. And it did not hurt me a bit.....

Nobody worth listening to thinks this kind of busywork is important, not even teachers (the good ones, anyway.) This is just another bunch of trend-worshipping educational middle-managers moaning because they're not getting to be in the Cool Educational Professionals Club where they do all the trendy futurey stuff like this because of all those benighted parents who aren't getting with their program.

Lol, do you know your making our generation sound like old farts? So grandpa was right, back to featherpens and wipping with rattan canes?

Of course computers is very important to get a good knowledge about, also to gather information from the net and it doesn't hurt to be able to write essays using computers like everybody else. it has nothing to do with "cool education". Heck, our generation is the first to use computers in education or the last not to. depending on age.

iPads are nice to consume content. and with external keyboards they are fairly nice to write on. but i'd take a computer for educational purposes IF they have a good it department to deal with the problems computer users face). on an ipad you just do a factory reset. unless it is dropped onto the pavement or anything else that render it useless.

I wasn't allowed to deliver computer printed essays, and i have a terrible handwriting so to me I wish i was born a bit later so I was. it hindered my grades a lot, but even after special classes and private tutors my handwriting never improved into greatness. I even got tests back with a grade put on random (low) because the censor didn't understand half of what i wrote.

In univ however I had - because i could use computers - terms with straight a's. I was always before that in the middle or worse.

And when i wrote this two girls around 12-14 came to the door asking to take photos of the house for a school project. they are making a documentary on the area we live in. they used a tablet to take notes and to photograph. that wouldn't have been that easy going from door to door if they had a laptop.

 

[Paul_s]

There was a news item yesterday on the bbc about a digital divide in schools, with the poorest families not having internet or a computer at home, compared with richer families having them, giving an advantage for homework.

What so you think of this?

I personally think there is too much focus on computers and the internet within schools, and not enough on the basics. Especially in primary level education. I think children should be learning the traditional basics of reading, writing and arithmetic first, instead of worrying how to use a word processor or Google.

And for older children needing to study and research for homework, yes I can see a disadvantage in not having internet access at home, but schools have access, and often allow after school access, plus libraries and other public access to the internet exists. If I couldn't provide internet access at home for my son I would be taking him to the library to use it there and help him.

When I was growing up no one had much and our parents did as much as they could to improve or education. These days they seem to always be trying to make out it is the fault of those with a bit more money having an unfair advantage over the poor, and saying they should have the right to the same for free. Why? This isn't how life works, and they are not putting any responsibility in the direction of the parents to find alternative ways to and their childs education, rather than just during at home moaning they don't have a computer or the internet, so their child's education is suffering. the government pandering to people is not helping in the slightest.

And don't get me started with secondary schools handing out iPads. I can't afford one, so why students should get one for free is mad.

There was a scheme a few years ago for secondary schools... think it was called 'Laptops for students' or something similar where local authoritys/government gave laptops to those who didn't have internet access at home or indeed a home PC... I think they were allowed to keep it at the end of lease... ISP line rental was factored in the costs also...

But I agree about the 'basics' being more important to kids (especially at primary level)... but saying that ---- there are lots of good educational software etc out there which can 'aid' pupils in their learning. I would think that 'home work' and needing a computer though is more for the secondary education sector? Well it was in my day at school!

 

[Powerpie5000]

We had dodgy old RM Nimbus and Apricot PC's at my School (we had an A500 and an Olivetti 386 PC at home). We used Intel Pentium, Pentium MMX and Pentium II PC's at college (i had an old IDT WinChip C6 PC and then a nice AMD K6-2 PC at the time... I liked to be different ).

I've always been around computers at home and at school/college... We still mainly used good old pen & paper during education though . My family are not rich and i wasn't rich (i'm still not rich either despite spending years in education :roll. I earned the money to build my PC's while in college, Hardly had any free time to myself during those years.

 

[Zetr0]

Firstly, this is a great topical thread and its a topic thats very close to my heart if you will.

My personal believe is that the internet should be considered a fundamental resource - like water, gas and electric. It is bigest (and first real piece) of 21st centuary technology - it unites us and assists us across the word... infact the internet has made the world a smaller yet richer place!

Now, that asside... all libraries and schools should have internet and free access for students and user - as schools go, there should be provided access during breaks and after school clubs.

Now, the interenet is fantastic IMHO, right now I am sitting in a small bungalow, just on the cusp of Nofolk, Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire - tapping these words out on on an overheating Toshiba laptop.... wirelless in my front room...

And you are reading this....where are you?!.... (how cool is that!)

But all this awesome, NEVER underestimate BOOKS as PRIMARY source of learning and information!

While the interent has all the answers (some where) after a good search, for those that do not know how to find the information, or more specifically not know the way to phrase the question, all to often they can end up with the wrong information, forming the wrong conclusion.

With my daughter whom is taking her A-Levels (Math / Chemistry / Physics and Biology) I go through the AS-Level book and go through other books and primers on the subjects she studdies (its been a while since I did A-Levels).

I know that without this level of involvement and just chucking the kids into the wild abandon of the internet they would be inunndated with too much information, some usefull, but most superflious.

Education comes from teaching... not just researching.... and its teaching that needs to be improved... I am not nessasarly on about teacher's standards here. While they play a part... the biggest problem is Class Sizes....

when I was in middle school we had a class size of 15 students, in high school that had shot up to 25 students per class.... however my daughters high-school her average class size was 34 students!!!.... thats less than 2 minutes of teacher time per lesson.... how is anyone expected to learn in that environment!

For my, belief is that the best education comes from human interaction - the internet is a great resource, and one that should be free for everyone - hooked into the library mainframe with all the available works (baring those under copyright) to be at a touch away from the user....


I read a funny pic on facebook the other day...


Q: What would you tell a man whom travel through time from the 1950's?
A: I would tell him that I have a device that fits in my pocket that contains the vast sum of entire human knowledge!
A2: And then tell him I use it to look up pictures of Cats and start fights over Spelling and Grammar

=)

 

[moijk]

Education comes from teaching... not just researching.... and its teaching that needs to be improved... I am not nessasarly on about teacher's standards here. While they play a part... the biggest problem is Class Sizes....

when I was in middle school we had a class size of 15 students, in high school that had shot up to 25 students per class.... however my daughters high-school her average class size was 34 students!!!.... thats less than 2 minutes of teacher time per lesson.... how is anyone expected to learn in that environment!

In 1-6th grade we were 4 (four) in our class. after that we were seven (7-9). Then it become around 30 when going to high school.

I take the 20ish over the 4-7 any day. While we had plenty of time to ask the teacher, I'd take the high school class any day.

 

[Jazzmarazz]

For starters, I am nearly 23 years old. I just graduated from college this past December with a Bachelor's in Information Technology. Yay me.
What I wanted to share was the fact that I experienced the Rich family/poor family crisis first hand in elementary school. My family did not have a computer for the longest time and I remember having to borrow my mother's typewriter for essays. It was incredibly difficult to talk about with my more well-off classmates not to mention the ease of ... a backspace button.
In high school, we had very few computers supplied by the school and only one class which taught only Word and Excel. I had never heard of a Mac nor could I type without looking at the keyboard. I still cannot type without looking which is not funny. Because of the limited amount of computer exposure that I had, I went to college for ART for **** sake! Once I registered for a Java class, it all changed and here we are, present day.

My argument is that the school's themselves need to focus more on computers. If schools have more computers, then the students who have none at home can use them after school.
We're talking about STEM courses. Only two of which I had at my school and I was NOT ready for college.

 

[Firthy2002]

Older used laptops can be picked up for less than £100 and a PIII is still reasonably capable of browsing most websites that don't use anything fancy like Silverlight or Flash. Especially if you ditch Windows for Linux.

 

[Harrison]

Very true.. and people are often throwing old PCs away on freecycle these days too. The problem is many of the people with out computers end up being picky and refuse "old" computers, saying they only want one that has Windows 7 on it and a windscreen LCD monitor. I'm not joking. I sometimes refurbish or build computers from old parts for people whom can't afford one, and some have turned them down because they are not new or don't have the right screen or HDD size. Such people shouldn't be pitied and only have themselves to blame.

 

[commodorejohn]

Lol, do you know your making our generation sound like old farts? So grandpa was right, back to featherpens and wipping with rattan canes?

Old? I'm 27, man, I haven't even outlived Jimi Hendrix yet. And if you'dve shutcher yap and paid attention, you'd probably have discovered that your grandpa was right about a lot of things. Maybe not feather pens and caning, but still. Few people over the age of 40 grew up with any serious computer exposure in school, and it's not like they grew up stupid or haven't been able to adapt perfectly well later in life.

Of course computers is very important to get a good knowledge about, also to gather information from the net and it doesn't hurt to be able to write essays using computers like everybody else. it has nothing to do with "cool education".

Don't get me wrong: I don't think that schools shouldn't have computers; certainly they're useful as glorified typewriters, and I don't think that having some kind of focus on teaching students computer skills is necessarily harmful. It's just that this kind of moaning about how awful it is that parents can't/won't buy their children laptops so that schools can start trying gimmicks like requiring homework to be done on a computer is indicative of a screwed-up, novelty-obsessed approach to education that should raise serious questions about the quality of the education being given by these people. I hate the phrase, but "first-world problems" really is an excellent fit.

And when i wrote this two girls around 12-14 came to the door asking to take photos of the house for a school project. they are making a documentary on the area we live in. they used a tablet to take notes and to photograph. that wouldn't have been that easy going from door to door if they had a laptop.

When you can't get a Polaroid from a thrift store for fifty cents or a digital camera from Wal-Mart for fifty bucks, I'll concede that either a laptop or a tablet is in any way necessary for photojournalism homework.

 

[-Acid-]

I never touched a computer til I left school (93) and i managed to teach myself no problem. This was pre Win 95 so pc's were irrelevant to joe public anyway at the time but that is not the point. You can be educated with pens, paper and books it just requires competent teachers.

 

[80sFREAK]

Very true.. and people are often throwing old PCs away on freecycle these days too. The problem is many of the people with out computers end up being picky and refuse "old" computers, saying they only want one that has Windows 7 on it and a windscreen LCD monitor. I'm not joking. I sometimes refurbish or build computers from old parts for people whom can't afford one, and some have turned them down because they are not new or don't have the right screen or HDD size. Such people shouldn't be pitied and only have themselves to blame.

Sounds like an excuse