Curious question about sales threads

[Walterg74]

Hi, currently on the lookout for a few items, and was browsing the "hardware for sale" ads.

The following from a seller caught my attention from one thread (won't say which):

"Powered up normally, only once, right after purchase (using a friends' 220-110V adapter) to check normal operation.It worked fine, and I see no reason why things would change since"


Really..? I mean, I am used to seeing this kind of BS on ebay and similar sites, where a seller would say crap like that to try to fool somebody and not say something does not work, but here? A forum that's full of users specialized or at least knowledgeable of the subject-matter, to post something like that? Really? You really don't see any reason why things would "change"..?

Is it just me? What do you guys think?

 

[tbtorro]

In my experience the wast majority of hardware will not go faulty just by sitting around if it worked last time it was powered up. With the exception of hardware that has leaking batteries or capacitors. Or maybe stuff that is stored bad, like a damp basement or similar.

Yes, it could be a trickery, but I think it's more likely that the seller just doesn't have the time (or in this case maybe the power adapter or other accessories) or some other hardware to test it again. Not everyone is a hard core retro hobbyist, and likely have family/work obligations, small children etc. so time is at premium.

Best practice is to ask the seller to test it if you are in doubt, it could solve the issue, or maybe can provide a reasonable explanation why it can't be tested, and you can proceed accordingly.

 

[Deleted member 14264]

Really..? I mean, I am used to seeing this kind of BS on ebay and similar sites, where a seller would say crap like that to try to fool somebody and not say something does not work, but here? A forum that's full of users specialized or at least knowledgeable of the subject-matter, to post something like that? Really? You really don't see any reason why things would "change"..?

Is it just me? What do you guys think?

I think ignorance is a precious thing... once lost it can never be regained.

That's the deal, people are ignorant about a lot of essential things and sometimes stick strongly to false notions when you try to educate them.

The deal here is mostly with capacitors and how they tend to degrade much faster when not exposed to the proper voltages, especially in power supplies. Not to confuse with the capacitor plague which affected PC capacitors between 1999 and 2004.

If you leave a piece of electrical equipment that has electronic components in it unused for long periods of time then the liquid inside capacitors will degrade and the capacitor will no longer perform its job correctly when powered. That's how so many people buy properly working C64s, VIC-20s, Amigas and other antique computers, video game consoles or even DVD Players, VCRs and audio amplifiers from eBay only to see them fail no more than a few minutes after turning them on.

These electrical apparatus have been unused for many years and the capacitors inside their power supply no longer performs adequately and the consequence is the voltage coming out of those power supplies is a rippling excessive voltage instead of the nice rock solid regulated DC that it should be. In the case of the C64, it usually destroys DRAM chips first.

There's also a lot of good willed people advertising antique electronics or computers on forums or eBay testing the items just prior to shipping and ending up having to refund buyers because they destroyed the equipment when testing it. Always the same comment... it worked for 5-10 minutes then it died. Guess why ?

In my experience the wast majority of hardware will not go faulty just by sitting around if it worked last time it was powered up.

I beg to differ. Not using the equipment from time to time is the main reason electrolytic capacitors will degrade.

 

[tbtorro]

In my experience the wast majority of hardware will not go faulty just by sitting around if it worked last time it was powered up.

I beg to differ. Not using the equipment from time to time is the main reason electrolytic capacitors will degrade.

"In my experience the wast majority of hardware will not go faulty just by sitting around if it worked last time it was powered up. With the exception of hardware that has leaking batteries or capacitors."

Erhmm... This is what I wrote in my original post ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :roll::roll:

 

[Deleted member 14264]

@tbtorro
The thing is, capacitors degraded over time by not using the equipment don't usually leak. Capacitors affected by the capacitor plague will leak but they were made years after Commodore went down.

If you closely look at overaged capacitors prior to powering (and potentially destroying) the equipment they're in, you don't see any sign of problem at all. You might not even see any sign of problem with the faulty caps even after your equipment has suffered extensive damage because they don't perform their job adequately.

Also, it usually has nothing to do with being stored in a damp environment.

 

[Ed.D]

So, could it be an idea to suggest to potential sellers to do a prolonged power up test (where possible) and take some pictures of the gear working to include in a for-sale thread? Maybe an addition to the for-sale rules?

Ed.

 

[Walterg74]

In my experience the wast majority of hardware will not go faulty just by sitting around if it worked last time it was powered up. With the exception of hardware that has leaking batteries or capacitors. Or maybe stuff that is stored bad, like a damp basement or similar.

Yes, it could be a trickery, but I think it's more likely that the seller just doesn't have the time (or in this case maybe the power adapter or other accessories) or some other hardware to test it again. Not everyone is a hard core retro hobbyist, and likely have family/work obligations, small children etc. so time is at premium.

Best practice is to ask the seller to test it if you are in doubt, it could solve the issue, or maybe can provide a reasonable explanation why it can't be tested, and you can proceed accordingly.

Doesn't have time? Come on... Not talking about a soak test, just making sure it still powers up and you get a screen, etc...

Agreed, not everyone is into this hobby, but if we are talking about listing here on the site...

- - - Updated - - -

Really..? I mean, I am used to seeing this kind of BS on ebay and similar sites, where a seller would say crap like that to try to fool somebody and not say something does not work, but here? A forum that's full of users specialized or at least knowledgeable of the subject-matter, to post something like that? Really? You really don't see any reason why things would "change"..?

Is it just me? What do you guys think?

I think ignorance is a precious thing... once lost it can never be regained.

That's the deal, people are ignorant about a lot of essential things and sometimes stick strongly to false notions when you try to educate them.

The deal here is mostly with capacitors and how they tend to degrade much faster when not exposed to the proper voltages, especially in power supplies. Not to confuse with the capacitor plague which affected PC capacitors between 1999 and 2004.

If you leave a piece of electrical equipment that has electronic components in it unused for long periods of time then the liquid inside capacitors will degrade and the capacitor will no longer perform its job correctly when powered. That's how so many people buy properly working C64s, VIC-20s, Amigas and other antique computers, video game consoles or even DVD Players, VCRs and audio amplifiers from eBay only to see them fail no more than a few minutes after turning them on.

These electrical apparatus have been unused for many years and the capacitors inside their power supply no longer performs adequately and the consequence is the voltage coming out of those power supplies is a rippling excessive voltage instead of the nice rock solid regulated DC that it should be. In the case of the C64, it usually destroys DRAM chips first.

There's also a lot of good willed people advertising antique electronics or computers on forums or eBay testing the items just prior to shipping and ending up having to refund buyers because they destroyed the equipment when testing it. Always the same comment... it worked for 5-10 minutes then it died. Guess why ?

In my experience the wast majority of hardware will not go faulty just by sitting around if it worked last time it was powered up.

I beg to differ. Not using the equipment from time to time is the main reason electrolytic capacitors will degrade.

Completely agree and that was the point..

My latest experience was a few months ago... I purchased an Atari Monitor, a nice and hard to find? 1435.

Wasn't the sellers fault as per my post though, I went over was local pickup, we tested it and it worked. I took it home, couldn't play with it for a few days or a couple of weeks, don't remember. I go test it with a ZX Spectrum +2 (had RGB + RGB to DB-9 adaptor) worked fine. I go test it again next day (wanted to test a console actually) and it didn't work anymore... Black screen high pitched sound...

So that could have happened to the seller too if he had tested it "some day" and then said "worked last time I tried it". That's no guarantee it still works..

- - - Updated - - -

So, could it be an idea to suggest to potential sellers to do a prolonged power up test (where possible) and take some pictures of the gear working to include in a for-sale thread? Maybe an addition to the for-sale rules?

Ed.

That actually sounds like a great idea...

 

[User4703]

Wait, hold up, you mean to tell me folks DON'T fully test their wares before punting them on here or elsewhere? Whats the point in that, trying to be slick for a couple of bucks and the potential hassle it could entail?

Whenever I list anything I always give it a full once over usually involving opening it up to give it a clean and a thorough play before selling as I only list what I'd want to buy.

 

[Deleted member 14264]

My solution when I acquire vintage components makes purists cringe... I trash the power supplies.

I got a few free 1541 drives... I trashed the power supply that's actually inside the drives. Removed the big regulators, trashed the transformers and 2 big capacitors and replaced it all with a brand new +5/+12 switching PSU.

The drives don't heat anymore and they weighs about half as much as before... some call me crazy but hey, I never lost a piece of equipment this way.

Many purists prefer to replace the caps and so on. You can't replace the caps inside sealed VIC-20* and C64 PSUs, you know your PSU is bad only once your computer has been badly damaged or destroyed.

*only later VIC-20s with round PSU connector have the PSU contain the power capacitor and are sealed.