Dead Apollo 1240 - What to try next?

fitzsteve

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Hi Guys,

My Apollo 1240 recently starting freezing and then after a few times it decided to never boot again :(

I was planning to have the card upgraded to 060 so I sent it off as planned to Stachu100 to see if he could make a simple repair & upgrade the card, but the problem seems to be quite serious.

The card produces just a black screen on boot, Stan has tried the following:

Replace the Xtal
clean MACH chips sockets
re-soldered 74F74 (this small chip close to battery area)

The card still produces the black screen and will not boot.

Where to check next? Stan is sending the card back to me as we agreed not to proceed with the upgrade whilst the card is not working.

(By the way if you are reading thank you Stan for all your help on this I really do appreciate it (y))

Zetr0 is sorting me out with a socket and a working 040 CPU :bowdown: but I need to try to find a repair shop or someone local to fit this for me, but before I undertake what will probably be expensive work, is there anything else I can try?

Any suggestions welcomed, Thanks.

Steve.
 

AndyLandy

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If Stan is willing, it might be best to send the '040 and bits straight to him, rather than send the card back and forth?
 

fitzsteve

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If Stan is willing, it might be best to send the '040 and bits straight to him, rather than send the card back and forth?

The card is already on the way back (posted yesterday) Stan really wanted to get the card booting before undertaking the CPU removal.

Steve.
 

tokyoracer

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I had the very same issue with my old '040, I sent mine to PG and he said to me "chances are it's one of the chips near the connector". Or at-least words to that effect.
 

bber

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I had same symptoms on my Apollo in mid 90's. Turned out that connector was poor quality and some pins had bended towards the connector. Fixed it with needle, bending connector pins carefully outwards. It's a long shot, but check the connector too!
 

Kin Hell

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If Stan is willing, it might be best to send the '040 and bits straight to him, rather than send the card back and forth?

The card is already on the way back (posted yesterday) Stan really wanted to get the card booting before undertaking the CPU removal.

Steve.

BGA sockets are know to fail, especially on 040's as they run hotter than 060's. Replacing the socket might actually resolve the issue.

Kin
 

Zetr0

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Apollo 1240/1260's and Blizzard 1240/60's are PGA not BGA.

Infact the only BGA i know of is the PPC chip on the PPC cards
 

stachu100

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Steve,
My suspicion is that acid from leaking accumulator destroyed several cooper tracks on PCB.
I've even found signs of damage on RAM sockets:

I haven't done more pictures, but signs of corrosions are under 040 CPU as well. You will find corrosion signs (green incrursions - I don't know how to call it properly in English) on CPU pins. And in other PCB areas unfortunately.

So in short:
Acid from accumulator is still eating cooper tracks on PCB - even if accumulator was removed long time ago.
 

fitzsteve

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@stachu100

Thanks for the added info, and again I really appraciate everything you've done.

So it sound like its time for this card to go tho the Big Amiga Box in the sky :(

Steve.
 

Tomse

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I hope you don't think of throwing it out ;-)

alittle OT:
stan = stachu100 ?
 

cosmicfrog

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or it can make it`s way to the pond :)

stachu100 dose the mach 131 chip look ok ?

as we/I am sorta hatching a plan as my apollo only has the 130 mach

now if its possible to salvage the mach chip and put it on my card ready for the upgrade to an 060 it make me very happy
 

fitzsteve

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I hope you don't think of throwing it out ;-)

alittle OT:
stan = stachu100 ?

Yes Stan = stachu100 (hope you don't mind me calling you Stan) :whistle:

I would not throw it out, maybe I'll frame it and use it as Retro Art!

But Zetr0 did suggest since he also has a faulty Apollo 1240 we try to get them repaired together.

Its great to have all this info as well since it will help with the repair, assuming copper tracks can be fixed? I'm guessing jump cables?

Steve.
 

stachu100

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It was my pleasure Steve.

And unfortunately yes, in my opinion it doesn't make sense to spend hours to find and repair broken tracks and vias (connection between layers).
It's veeery hard to clean PCB from acid without professional equipment so after amateur cleaning there will be still some acid on PCB eating cooper.
So your card might fail again after such repair.

It's better to invest and to buy another card in my opinion (without acid leakage signs this time).

Of course someone can repair the card, bu thte question is is it worth it.

If you decided to label this card "R.I.P.":
You can sell 131MACH chips from your card to someone willing to upgrade Apollo 1240 with MACH130 type onboard into 1260.
Rest (Apollo 1240 without MACH chips) can be sold as well - me for example. I need edge connector and RAM socket.

Stachu = Stan = Stanislaw (my real name)
 

Tomse

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I would estimate it doable.. though alot of work needs to be done, it would almost be easier to make a new PCB ;-)
 

fitzsteve

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:Doh:

Sounds like I should have left the card with you Stan! Then you could have taken the parts you need and returned the rest.

Oh well I'll think everything through when the card comes back.

Steve.
 

stachu100

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Well, I wasn't sure about your future plans, so I've sent everything back to you.
Nothing is lost.
And remember that I have Apollo 1260 060@80MHz (no signs of acid leakage) so if you will send me Apollo 1240 without MACH chips you will get the discount if you will decided to take mine. :)

So no rush, take your time. ;)
 

Kin Hell

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Apollo 1240/1260's and Blizzard 1240/60's are PGA not BGA.

Infact the only BGA i know of is the PPC chip on the PPC cards

S'funny m8. Anthony Hoffman retuned my repaired CSMKIII & old 060 socket. You could hear the ball bearings rattle inside the removed socket.

Obviously a Ball Grid Array socket in this case & as explained by Anthony himself.

I also uderstood the 040/060 sockets to be BGA & hence why there have been so many failures with the BGA design on these boards.

With regard to the PPC chip, they are normally soldered directly to the board & not in a socket.

@ statchu100

Can you confirm the PPC chips are soldered directly to the board please?

Kin
 

TheoryBoy

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So the socket for the 68060 on a CSMKIII is not a throughhole design but a BGA to PGA socket?
 

Kin Hell

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@ TheoryBoy

Afaik m8, the socket is BGA, (Ball Grid Array). Whilst the socket looks like a PGA affair as employed by FPU's, the BGA design has ball bearings at the bottom of the tubes. Over time, the heat build up makes these ball bearing become loose & the contact is then lost. This is what happened to my old CSMKIII & Mr Hoffman replaced the socket with straight & individual PGA type pins, actually called Precidip socket pins & pulled from 2.54mm SIL socket strips. See here:

http://amiga.serveftp.net/Cyberstorm_socket.html

Kin
 

TheoryBoy

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Thanks for the link, took me a few reads to see it, BGA on the bottom ... even removing the 68060 once could cause enough strain to cause a ball to fail.

lift_socket_clear-big.jpg
 
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