Debate: Are Kryoflux Copies Still Original?

[Elgen]

Okay, debate time...


Consider this:
A guy owns an original and rare Amiga game, but the disk stops working. He then makes a Kryoflux-copy (from a working game) and writes it on a new mint disk; take both disks apart and transplants the actual "inner" floppy disk into the original casing.
Is it then fair to call it original in regards to sale, would you think?


Here are some of my thoughts, give me yours:
* The game is useless imo, when the disk is defective.
* As the copy is made on a mint new disk, the final product might last 25+ from now.
* As some of you know, I do a lot of arcade-PCB repairing; in the arcade community, an original PCB is still considered original, even if you during a repair have to replace a defective ROM-chip with a new freshly burned one (with the same code of cause).


Give me your thoughts, plz...


};-P Cheers

 

[Templar]

I have done this hundreds of time with defective media. As Kryoflux makes 1:1 copy from the original, yes, it is still original. The wrong way would be to grab a pirate ADF copy from the internet and transplat the media under the original disk's hood.

 

[Elgen]

That's 1 for, thnx for the answer... I'd be very interested in arguments against.

 

[sputnik]

Unless we own a disk from new, or buy it sealed, how can anyone really tell this hasn't been done already?

Wouldn't bother me, but I never pay too much for old disks.

 

[roy_bates]

even an original is a copy...what i mean that is,thats how the software got on the disk in the first place.


the original is as the original software was originally,thats the point..

 

[supaduper]

A 1:1 backup copy of the original you own, well I cant see the prob, I`m with Roy its a copy of a Master so its as pure as can be with no nasties lying in the bootblock from some adf`s

 

[Elgen]

Thnx for the answers so far };-P
But if any of you guys pulled such a trick, would you tell a potential buyer... it might affect the price...

 

[sputnik]

Thnx for the answers so far };-P
But if any of you guys pulled such a trick, would you tell a potential buyer... it might affect the price...

It's not a trick, it's a like-for-like replacement / repair.

If it troubles your conscience, mention it. Rather than hurting price, it might increase it, because buyers can be sure the disk surface is nice and clean. Sell it as a 'expert remaster' ;-)

 

[slk486]

I'd get all my originals kryofluxed if someone offered that service. Having the knowledge that they're minty fresh for years to come would be lovely

 

[sputnik]

yup slk486 I am sick of dirty old floppies shedding rust all over my drive heads...

 

[Monkeh]

As Sputnik says it isn't a trick - you would be using current technology to salvage data stored on defective media and restoring it to its original state.

 

[ShambleS1980]

to me its a copy lol.
whether or not any one could tell is a different matter entirely. but if i did it i would know.. and id call it a copy..
reminds me of swapping the innards form a vhs or audio cassette easier to tell with those because of the difference in play time on the media. but its still a copy to me lol.

and yes all software/music/video is a copy. but its a copy made by some one who was always intended to make and distribute the media.

so to me at-least "fundamentally" its not original..

its the same for hardware i think. once you start replacing broken parts its not original any more..
its a bit like trigger form only fools and horses getting a meddal for having the same broom for 20 years.
then when asked about it he says something like
"its had 8 new handles and 15 new brush heads"
which obviously means its not the same broom lol.

 

[sputnik]

True, but anyone worried about originality shouldn't be buying vintage equipment or software of any kind.

Things can be reproduced or replaced, sometimes completely undetected - anything can be made to look old.

 

[ShambleS1980]

originality is pretty much key to most "collectors" allong with condition.

if i had a luke sky walker toy in its box then took it out and replaced it with an identical copy made from the original mold and a collector bought it if hey eventually found out (no matter how improbable it is for them to find out) they would want to kill me lol...

 

[Monkeh]

But your examples are flawed, because when you are talking about software you do realise you buy a license to use the data on the provided media in a specific hardware platform, and not the actual media itself? If the media develops a fault then the producers in most cases would have provided you with replacement media for a nominal fee to cover the media and postage costs. Since pretty much no software producers exist that are providing this service to existing customers then preserving the data to new media is going to be a diy process.

In any case we are not talking about the preservation of a physical item, or a bespoke creation - just the arrangements of data on a plastic disk coated in magnetised iron filings with a finite life span.

 

[Phipscube]

I'm with shambles. A hard core collector will want the original disk exactly as it was. If it was something common then not a big deal as most collectors only care about package condition and if the disks work. But something potentially ultra rare will attract the hard core with their oscilloscopes and crazy ass analysing equipment. I'd say try and carefully remove the original disk, and clean it with lint free cloth and isopropyl being very careful not to put kinks in the disk. Most times this will make an old dirty disk work again. Failing that, reimage, but state its a reimage incase a hardcore comes along.

 

[diskers]

OK guys let push the paranoia further. What if you have a master copy, the same hardware disk copier, a bunch of the same floppies as well as the original floppy disk stickers that the original software producer had and so on. Will your copies be genuine originals or not? Being strictly academical the only original is the first master copy even a copy of the master copy is not an original. So when you are buying physically a piece of software you don't know how much original is in the original. If you have an original made from a copy of the first master copy it's a worst original than the one made from the genuine and unique master copy. But any of them are originals... An original is only a copy that is approved legally by the copyright holder. If you have an official permission to make a copy it's an original but in legal terms, technically it's only copy. How it was said in Highlander there can be only one..

 

[Elgen]

^};-P http://youtu.be/sqcLjcSloXs

 

[fatbob_gb]

Personally I think that you can only call it original is it is untouched - a kryoflux version is a copy.

I also couldn't car less if it was a kryoflux version or not - I would prefer to have a working version that I could actually use.

 

[Tomse]

Personally I think that you can only call it original is it is untouched - a kryoflux version is a copy.

I also couldn't car less if it was a kryoflux version or not - I would prefer to have a working version that I could actually use.

the official IPF releases are unmodified disks. the SPS team don't release modified IPF images.

If I buy a game, I usually don't expect it to work.

I wouldn't write an IPF back to the original disk. I'd do it on a copy.. but I haven't had the need to do so yet, since we've got WHDLoad.

@elgen this could be a good question for the kryoflux forums too, I'm sure mr.vince and team would have something interesting to say about this.