Finance and Electronic Crime Unit

Templar

In Finem Vobis Videtur De Christiana
VIP
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
9,698
Country
Hellas
Region
Cydonia
No one wants to mess with these guys of course, and no one wants to mess with his government also.

The reason I want to discuss this matter, is the multiple buy/sell we are doing from here, from eBay and our local trading sites.

Does your name can be in a black list of ECU due to the fact that when you sell something here or there, you don't give a receipt of your goods you're selling (that's somewhat impossible for a private buyer/seller).

The same applies if you buy something, obvious if you want to be ok with the ECU you have to get a receipt everytime inside your package. But that's also slight impossible.

The reason is that you "steal" money from the government; well, for them.

Let's bring an example.

Let's say that I'm willing to sell an amiga hardware part to a guy in UK. I've got the money via PayPal or bank transfer, sent the package and everything is ok. But to be under law cover I must have enclosed a receipt to the recepient or vice versa.

So, from your experience, are we illegal in some sort or totally legal under ECU?

Is there any possibility to receive a strange paper from ECU, that claims to pay a huge amount because our trading (buy/sell) is illegal due to some laws ("stolen" money from government, don't pay VAT for items and so on)?

Thanks for reading.
 

StrontiumDog

New member
Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Posts
2,888
Country
United Kingdom
Region
The Willen Lake
Private selling and buying of goods means you don't have to issue a receipt of any kind. You can if you so desire include a piece of paper with the words to the effect of:

SOLD: 1 Amiga A1200 computer with all necessary cables.
To: <name and address>

Payment received, many thanks!

IFAIK there is no UK law which states you MUST issue such a document with every transaction no matter where and with whom. Your experience however may differ depending on your local laws.
 

Justin

Active member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Posts
12,176
Country
United Kingdom
Region
UK
nope no reciepts, also giving a peice of paper with "sold as seen" means nothing in law, as in if the item becomes faulty the law is on the buyers side regardless of the "sold as seen" disclaimer
 

HonestFlames

New member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Posts
346
Country
England
Region
Shropshire
For private sales, the item is assumed to be 'sold as seen'. No guarantee is implied. If I sell someone an Amiga I advertised as working, and it wasn't working when the buyer took delivery, I am not legally obliged to do a darn thing about it.

Of course, I'm morally obliged and I would offer to issue a full refund plus cost of return postage.

Caveat emptor.
 

Templar

In Finem Vobis Videtur De Christiana
VIP
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
9,698
Country
Hellas
Region
Cydonia
If you receive 5 packets per week, or send 5 packets per week, you are under "suspicious" movements I pressume. They already have your name and your rest of the details, in case that you do a tax evasion.

It clearly shows that you sell and buy goods without under law cover.

That depends from customs etc etc...
 

StrontiumDog

New member
Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Posts
2,888
Country
United Kingdom
Region
The Willen Lake
I've sent loads of packages worldwide over the past few weeks and I really don't care if custom's have my name and address - just one more entry in a database of many.

My CN22 customs label is always marked as 'Gift' and is noted as being worth less than the taxable amount for an import into the respective country.
 

LTAC

New member
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Posts
2,527
Country
FRANCE
Region
South of PARIS
The European officials are currently considering a regulation to the auction (EBAY is mainly concerned, probably because they are in Luxembourg). That may be because when there is a purchase via the auction system, the country originating from the sale receives no tax (VAT / TVA) on the transaction.
The European officials want to make it more difficult transactions that they can not see (website direct & private sales or auctions), requiring perhaps all justify our purchases.
 

jvdbossc

HypnusBE
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Posts
3,326
Country
Belgium
Region
Antwerp (province)
Well I am an experience expert at least for Belgium:

Unther 2 kilo everything passes, including daily stuff...

Over 2 kilo difficult paperwork, french speaking people not able to speak dutch to fill in the forms with me.

So here everything passes unther 2 kilo, they might have some stuff to check real "illég0l" contents I don't know did not try it yet and no needs.

I once got a cut open package with 8 m"rlb"ro's in it :shhh:. I did not hear from it at all :whistle:
 

Ed.D

Active member
Blogger
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Posts
1,543
Country
United Kingdom
Region
Bristol
VAT is added to new items bought from a dealer or resaler yes, who has a business set up to sell things and should have a valid and registered VAT number(at least in the UK). If you buy an item from somebody in a private sale, you currently do not and should not have to pay any VAT.

Most items on Amibay are 'used' / second hand anyway right? I don't think any government could pass a law expecting a person to pay VAT on a used item that has already had VAT payed on it when it was first purchased as a new item.

When you buy a used car you are not expected to pay VAT again when you buy it. That was paid by the first owner.
 

salaxi54

Incoming ASROC!
AmiBayer
Blogger
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Posts
3,864
Country
GREECE
Region
Athens
I don't think it's any different than buying used -or even new for that matter- items from a neighbor or a garage sale across the block! You meet some fellow Amigans locally, and trade stuff. Exactly the same. Would you require a receipt? Nahh. I doubt there's anything that any authority can do about it. Items of our interest are not of "suspicious" content, and the only case where someone's government could be concerned is according to origin. Meaning customs! If it's stuff travelling across the EU, we're lucky not to have customs. If it comes from abroad, i believe especially from the US, well, then it's a whole different thing. But even in that case, it usually depends on estimated (or sometimes declared) value. Plus, quantity. What i mean is, ok,they might let you pass a single mobo, but if you're expecting a batch of 10, it is viewed differently...
Just my 2 cents.
 

AndyLandy

Acceleration!
Treasurer
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Posts
9,898
Country
UK
Region
Southampton
VAT is added to new items bought from a dealer or resaler yes, who has a business set up to sell things and should have a valid and registered VAT number(at least in the UK). If you buy an item from somebody in a private sale, you currently do not and should not have to pay any VAT.

Most items on Amibay are 'used' / second hand anyway right? I don't think any government could pass a law expecting a person to pay VAT on a used item that has already had VAT payed on it when it was first purchased as a new item.

When you buy a used car you are not expected to pay VAT again when you buy it. That was paid by the first owner.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, a friend of mine once corrected me on a subtlety of taxation. Tax is not charged on items. It's charged on transactions. That's part of the reason that inheritance tax can exist. There's no reason why a government couldn't decide to tax second-hand goods, it's just a whole lot of hard work.
 

Station240

New member
AmiBayer
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Posts
307
Country
Adelaide,Australia
Region
South Australia
You guys pack receipts into the items you sell ? :wooha:

I never do, not even for things I sell on ebay. Can't be :censored: buying a printer and supplies just to sell a few bits of junk, which I then spend on other bits of junk I do want. Its not selling, its swapping.

I put a description and value on the customs sticker on the front, if that isn't enough they can get bent.
 

status

Member
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Posts
713
Country
Heraklion
Region
Crete
Phantom said:
Let's say that I'm willing to sell an amiga hardware part to a guy in UK. I've got the money via PayPal or bank transfer, sent the package and everything is ok. But to be under law cover I must have enclosed a receipt to the recepient or vice versa.
So, from your experience, are we illegal in some sort or totally legal under ECU?

Is there any possibility to receive a strange paper from ECU, that claims to pay a huge amount because our trading (buy/sell) is illegal due to some laws ("stolen" money from government, don't pay VAT for items and so on)?

The paypal "payment sent" e-mail or the you profile paypal page can be a defenate proof of transaction for the Greek Fiscal system.

And remember, you are under supsicion by the FBI IF and only IF your transaction are over 9000 errmm 10.000$/ mounth. :p
 

StrontiumDog

New member
Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Posts
2,888
Country
United Kingdom
Region
The Willen Lake
These days, you are under the watchful eye of the FBI if you breathe too loudly. Although I must admit to doing the FBI tour in Washington DC years ago, standing in the middle of the seal and breaking wind. :LOL:

If they had chemical weapon's detectors back in those days I'd have set them off for sure - no more cabbage for me thanks mum lol
 

Templar

In Finem Vobis Videtur De Christiana
VIP
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
9,698
Country
Hellas
Region
Cydonia
What they told me yesterday, is that you don't need to pay any VAT on a item, as the item is used, so its VAT paid in the first place and there is no reason to pay the VAT for the second time.
 

status

Member
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Posts
713
Country
Heraklion
Region
Crete
These days, you are under the watchful eye of the FBI if you breathe too loudly. Although I must admit to doing the FBI tour in Washington DC years ago, standing in the middle of the seal and breaking wind. :LOL:

If they had chemical weapon's detectors back in those days I'd have set them off for sure - no more cabbage for me thanks mum lol

You are my hero, i went to the US embassy in Athens and i always felt like someone watching me, Hello big brotha:p

What they told me yesterday, is that you don't need to pay any VAT on a item, as the item is used, so its VAT paid in the first place and there is no reason to pay the VAT for the second time.

Well thats correct, it doesn't matter if you are recieving an itam from EU or not, except some cases of bulk orders when the customs r@p3 you.

As for the law of collecting reciepts paypal DOES count, i asked.
 

Templar

In Finem Vobis Videtur De Christiana
VIP
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
9,698
Country
Hellas
Region
Cydonia
Are you sure that PayPal or eBay receipts count also in Greece? Where did you ask that?

Ok, I can see that on eBay you pay a 15% VAT (Luxemburg). I believe that counts too.
 
Top Bottom