Gift payment is open to abuse by sellers...

[everblue]

And I learned the hard way.

A couple of weeks ago, I opened a new thread in which I said I was looking for a completely unyellowed, Amiga 500 keyboard.

So this guy replies and after he confirms that it has the original colour, I sent him the money, as gift, just like he insisted (even though I offered to send as normal payment with the PP fees on top, and he refused).

Anyway, I got the keyboard, and guess what, it *IS* yellowed. Not a lot, I admit, but it has yellowing - if I knew I would have not bought it. Anyway as it is, I cannot file a complaint with Paypal so I am stuck with it.

So beware buyers, never accept to send money as gift, always offer to pay the PP fees on top instead.

PS. I did send the seller a reply but after 24 hours I got no answer so far. The only way he can come out clean out of this one if he gives me a full refund + postage for the keyboard in case he wants it back.

 

[fitzsteve]

Not really nice to air your dirty laundry in public. It's really difficult to tell if an a500 is the original colour let alone taking into account different plastics manufactured will even have slightly different colours.

The advice I have is ask for lots of pics and make sure you are happy before you commit if you are looking for perfection.

 

[Zetr0]

@everblue

Thank you for posting this concern, my hope is fellow members take heed of this advice and be cautious when trading, especially if -

1. You feel you are place in a disadvantage
2. You do not know the member you are trading with
3. You have not seen the product / item or review of service

In your concern here I would recommend that you contact a member of staff to see if together you can build a line of communication with the seller. I personally believe a Firm yet Friendly approach wins the day



@Thread

You should never feel obligated or pressured to pay in a manner that is detrimental to your rights - ie. distance selling regulations (UK/Europe). If you are wanting to pay but are being pressured to pay using PayPal Gift - I would recommend that you insist on paying regularly with yourself covering Fee's.

There should be no reason why a seller would refuse this method in preference of a Gift Payment. If they do, I would avoid buying the item from the seller.

 

[BluesBrothers]

It is your right to cover the fee element yourself to gain Paypal protection. If the seller refuses and insists GIFT simply don't trade with them.

I always ask for a gift payment but give the buyer the option and it is then their call based on the value of the goods and how well they either know or trust me. If a seller refuses to allow you to cover the fees it usually means there's going to be an issue somewhere down the line

 

[everblue]

I started this thread, not to make the sellers dirty laundry public, but just as a warning to other buyers before accepting to pay as gift. I know it is not easy to tell if an A500 keyboard has yellowed or not, but that was the seller's duty to make sure before sending it. Now, judging if a keyboard has yellow or not from a photo, yes, that is really difficult to tell. Anyway this is really my fault. I had a hunch that I should not go ahead with sending the payment as gift, and I still did. My lack of judgement. We know how it goes... you fool me once.... you fool me twice.

Not really nice to air your dirty laundry in public. It's really difficult to tell if an a500 is the original colour let alone taking into account different plastics manufactured will even have slightly different colours.

The advice I have is ask for lots of pics and make sure you are happy before you commit if you are looking for perfection.

- - - Updated - - -

It is your right to cover the fee element yourself to gain Paypal protection. If the seller refuses and insists GIFT simply don't trade with them.

I always ask for a gift payment but give the buyer the option and it is then their call based on the value of the goods and how well they either know or trust me. If a seller refuses to allow you to cover the fees it usually means there's going to be an issue somewhere down the line

Indeed. A bit late now. Anyway as I said, lack of judgement from my side.

 

[Sardine]

this has been covered many times.

simple rules to help.

if the seller insists pay as gift then avoid.

most reputable sellers will offer you the choice of gift or cover the fee's.

 

[ShambleS1980]

as they did send the KB and it is only slightly yellowed. then i would not imagine that the seller was out right out to try and defraud you.

i would advize to give a bit of time for them to reply.

but as mentioned before.
always ask for pictures.
Pay with protection if you dont know the person very well.
If they do not allow you to pay with protection then dont do it..
Paying by gift is cheaper for every one. but for the 2-5% fee you can always calculate that then click on Pay for goods/services and just add the extra.
if they refund the payment and insist on a ift payment then you should know something is wrong.

Personally in this particular instance, i would imagine that The term "yellowed" may be the issue rather than some one trying to defraud some one els.
Prehaps I also would not think this item is yellowed but others would.

 

[everblue]

I never said that the seller tried to defraud me, or even did it on purpose. The point of the thread is that should you accept to send money as gift, and you are not happy with your purchase, and the seller doesn't oblige, you're well, f*****. That's the morale of the story

 

[SaviorX]

first week on the internets?

 

[Frederic_Freakazoid]

I sold an A500 on eBay many many years ago. I'm certain I took photos, but still ended up with my one and only "neutral" feedback (something like "item as described but poor condition of the unit was not revealed"). It was horribly yellowed, and I personally didn't even think about it at the time (of course I'm not even sure if that was the issue as I don't recall if I tested it or not). I felt bad... a little communication goes a long way.

I also ended up selling our personal A500 via Craigslist. The guy was NOT happy. First he was in a hurry to get it so I didn't get a chance to test it (I'd used it 6 months prior and it worked fine). Second, the day he wanted me to bring it to him it was snowing so the roads weren't all that great. So not only was I late to get it to him causing him to be late for something, I apparently sold him a busted A500 (later he revealed/discovered the supplied PSU voltage was off and toasted the motherboard). I refunded the full amount to him that night, as I felt bad about it, but also can't help but feel a little ripped off and ****ed that he'd gotten so cross with me after rushing me through the transaction. He'd gone so far as to threaten legal action. It was not a fun night for me. Then when I inquired about it later he was cheerful as can be in his replies.

 

[protek]

Based on a couple of occasions, when I've stated on a sales thread that paypal gift or buyer pays fees and ended up a few € short as buyer has neglected these terms and made a regular payment without adding the paypal overhead, I'm going to add the overhead to the actual sales price myself and only state paypal purchase of goods as payment. This keeps things simple and both seller and buyer are covered.

 

[Zetr0]

@protek

+1

IMHO this is the best way to operate ones sales - just bundle the fee's in with the price asked for - it is a lot less of a hassle =)


In regards to gift payments, I personally am happy to do these payment exchanges with members that I know well and obviously friends - if its someone I do not know and have not traded with before I always insist on regular PayPal payments.

 

[Astral]

@everblue

Is there a "not as described" protection for non-eBay items? Does the protection now stretch to items purchased through other sources such as AmiBay, Gumtree, Craigslist etc?

 

[flu!d]

When I was restoring my own A500 my keys were terribly yellowed, all I did was pop the keys off and give them a thorough retrobriting (which isn't in any way hard), now the keyboard looks and operates brand new - In fact my whole A500 restored perfectly.

Give the seller a break, the A500's getting on now considering the only Amiga older than it is the A1000, and what you consider to be yellowed may very well be considered quite good for it's age to the seller - Did you ask for photo's before purchacing the keyboard?

 

[Zetr0]

@flu!d

Interestingly the specifics in this issue are not what the issue is about.

While this issue had arisen due to miscommunication of condition of goods, the point of the thread is that sellers insisting on PayPal Gift can lead to abuse. While the details and specifics of the transaction are between the buyer and seller, the "moral" of the story here is to be safe in trading and if you are going to pay with the PayPal Gift option - you need to know or better yet "trust" the seller.

Now this can be derived by feedback, however IMHO I would suggest that one only uses "gift payments" those you know well or very small amounts <£10.

I should also point out that the opposite is also true, there are some cases I have seen where buyers have abused the PayPal payment system, obtaining goods only to claim their money back by PayPal.

So to all my friends on here - be safe, honest and cautious.

 

[protek]

One thing to add from buyer's perspective. When paying as gift, if you can't cover the whole amount from your paypal funds and have to resort to using your credit card, paypal will charge you some extra. This isn't the case, when you make a paypal purchase. Bottom line, paypal wants its overhead no matter what, so you may as well get yourself covered and pay as goods purchase and pay the overhead to the seller.

If the other party is your friend or someone else you trust, it might actually make more sense to move the cash via regular IBAN transfer.

 

[davideo]

If the other party is your friend or someone else you trust, it might actually make more sense to move the cash via regular IBAN transfer.

If I make a direct bank payment within the UK my bank does not charge me a fee but If I make a transfer to a non UK account I can be charged up to £7 by my bank!!

 

[sir_beaker]

£7!!!! My bank charges me a flat £10 plus if I am transferring to my Irish account I have to pay a small amount to receive it

I'd love to do IBAN when dealing with people I know in the UK but everyone I deal with on a regular basis prefers Paypal which I respect.

 

[BluesBrothers]

Look Paypal is simple to use and is safe as long as you exercise caution and proper practice. The OP makes a good point and accepts the blame for losing out because he knew before he did it that he probably shouldn't.

Personally I don't like using IBAN. Yes you pass details around all the time and many consider IBAN to be safe but in my opinion it is the volume of sensitive details that are involved in giving bank info over the web. With internet fraud 1 or 2 details aren't that dangerous but if the fraudster is able to build a fuller picture of your details this is more likely to end badly. This is why I prefer Paypal,... I move around £100's sometimes £1000's each week for many years and problems are negligable as long as you understand and respect the way it works and equally exercise due caution with buyer's and sellers alike

 

[protek]

@Bluesbrothers: I agree thar IBAN should be used with caution and restricted to trustworthy partners. I've actually never checked how much my bank charges overhead to foreign payments even though I'm aware of them. Moving money between my paypal and bank account isn't possible in my country so I have to resort to paypal charging my credit card instead, with which always lies the danger of accumulating a hefty credit card bill, if I'm not careful.