I'm wondering if this is legal..

fitzsteve

Retired Slacker
AmiBayer
Blogger
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Posts
20,001
Country
UK
Region
Sevenoaks
I've bought from him before, he's a dealer on eBay selling all sorts of vintage computer stuff.

Don't know if he is licenced to sell roms tho. The owners of the commercial rights should do more to rid eBay of illegal copies as it would help support amigakit and other licenced sellers.
 

tbtorro

As you wish.
VIP
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Posts
5,042
Country
Denmark
Region
Sjæland
I've bought from him before, he's a dealer on eBay selling all sorts of vintage computer stuff.

Don't know if he is licenced to sell roms tho. The owners of the commercial rights should do more to rid eBay of illegal copies as it would help support amigakit and other licenced sellers.

Exactly my thought. He's been around on Ebay for a while now, should know better. Point is, anybody could pick up a nice batch of EPROMs and start pumping copy ROMs to the market..
 

Merlin

Ministry of Retr0bright and Street Judge
VIP
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Posts
15,597
Country
UK
Region
Manchester
He is indeed a dealer and was banned from here some time back, for being an undeclared trader. He was further banned for trying to make a second account, after the first one was banned.
 

tbtorro

As you wish.
VIP
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Posts
5,042
Country
Denmark
Region
Sjæland
I wonder who owns the KS rom rights novadays? Hyperion? Maybe someone should at least let the Amigakit folks know about this, I'm sure they have ways to check this guy out, and stop him (in case he is in fact not licensed to sell them)
 

fitzsteve

Retired Slacker
AmiBayer
Blogger
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Posts
20,001
Country
UK
Region
Sevenoaks
I believe it's hyperion, he could well be licensed to sell them but I doubt it. I think it's only amigakit and vesalia. They really need to do more to shut down pirate operations.
 

tbtorro

As you wish.
VIP
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Posts
5,042
Country
Denmark
Region
Sjæland
I believe it's hyperion, he could well be licensed to sell them but I doubt it. I think it's only amigakit and vesalia. They really need to do more to shut down pirate operations.

Well actually this is the first time I see a pro seller pushing multiple copies of burned chips. Every once in a while there is a ROM chip or two from private sellers with questionable labels (clearly not factory ROMs but EPROMS with stickers on top) but I assume they are old burned chips maybe from small local Amiga resellers back in the days. Or they simply don't know better. But this operation is clearly for profit.
 

amigaman2000

Amiga Forever
AmiBayer
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Posts
1,112
Country
Spain
Region
Pontevedra
The copyright owner for Workbench up to 3.1 is Cloanto of Italia srl, they are the only allowed to sell Kickstart ROMs and Workbench disks, they didn't sell directly they sell it to resellers, like Amigakit, Vesalia, eBay sellers, etc.

The ones sold by the eBay seller pointed by tbtorro are illegal copies for sure.

Regards
 

rootboy

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Posts
570
Country
United States
Region
Tennessee
The copyright owner for Workbench up to 3.1 is Cloanto of Italia srl, they are the only allowed to sell Kickstart ROMs and Workbench disks, they didn't sell directly they sell it to resellers, like Amigakit, Vesalia, eBay sellers, etc.
Actually if you own a copy of "Amiga Forever" you have the right to create your own ROMs, as spelled out by Amiga Forever (Cloanto). The key here is that you create them just for yourself (which is a trick in and of itself). And AF/C isn't the only licensees in town:
At the end of 2009, in a settlement agreement between Amiga, Inc. (Delaware) and Hyperion Entertainment VOF, the following licensees were listed: Cloanto Italia srl, Haage & Partner Computer GmbH, Data Storage Advisors AG, eGames, Inc., On Broadband Networks, LLC, Envizions, Inc., and Ironstone Partners (until 2015).
The ones sold by the eBay seller pointed by tbtorro are illegal copies for sure.Regards
Easy enough to deal with.
Cloanto's PositionWe like to believe that Amiga emulation has in general been well-accepted also because, thanks to Amiga Forever, it was properly licensed and supported. If that were not the case, the situation of Amiga emulation in 1997 or 1998 could have been similar to what happened to other systems: police raids, legal actions, court battles, etc. Under such circumstances, many programmers, as they have stated, would not create any Amiga emulation software, or any new versions thereof, and there may be little left of the Amiga emulation scene. Instead, Amiga emulation evolved and prospered.Amiga Forever as a whole, being the result of several years of work by Cloanto and its licensors, is a commercial package. Because we are licensees of multiple components from different parties, we are part of a chain of responsibilities, both contractual and determined by local jurisdictions, when it comes to information about unlicensed ROM and operating system files, or copies of Amiga Forever. When we receive reports about web sites which are claimed to provide such files, we are obliged by law and by contract to take some action. This could be a friendly informative email to the webmaster, which usually concludes the matter in an amicable and constructive way for all parties, or, more regrettably, it could escalate all the way to the ISP and to local computer crime authorities. When this happens, we consider this a failure, and we too feel bad about this.We've also experienced a few unfortunate episodes of confusing Amiga Forever "home pages" using our graphics, texts, descriptions and even HTML keywords and tags. These had to be removed. Similarly, eBay listings occasionally had to be removed, sometimes with the help of third parties (Amiga Forever by Cloanto is listed in eBay's VeRO program page). We don't like doing this, and we most certainly would prefer to prevent such episodes from happening in the first place, which is one of the reasons why this page exists.
 

tbtorro

As you wish.
VIP
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Posts
5,042
Country
Denmark
Region
Sjæland
Thanks guys for the input, Cloanto actually have an online form for this. I wrote to them to check out the listing - there is a small chance after all that his ROMs are legal somehow.

Btw. I've made a thread over at Lemon about this, where I had one reply only, and that was accusing me of actually SELLING these roms and promoting the sales at lemon.. :picard I think I'll just stick to Amibay for my forum activities in the future..
 
Last edited:

davideo

I look like Gizmo
Staff member
Administrator
Staff Moderator
Treasurer
Blogger
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Posts
15,091
Country
UK
Region
Boston, Lincs
:LOL: I was going by the label and not the chip details :D

That'll teach me to have abetter look next time :roll:
 

rootboy

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Posts
570
Country
United States
Region
Tennessee

Nah, not the same guy . The guy who got his Kickstart ROMs yanked was ita*** (I should know, I've done business with both of them). I'm pretty sure that Tony (the guy you pointed out) didn't even give it a thought when he listed these. Notice that they are the only questionable ROMs that he has listed, and only one set of them. And not even the "good" 3.1 ROM version.

Tony was extremely helpful, and did quite a bit of hand-holding with this Amiga newbie. No complaints from me.

I bought my ROMs from ita*** never even giving a thought that they might be illegal until it was brought up here. So, I ordered a legal set from AmigaKit along with a -11 Super Buster (where they are at the moment is anyone's guess). If I ever upgrade my other 4000, I'll get another set from AmigaKit.

Now due to the backup provision in the Cloanto license, my illegal 4000 ROMs have magically become legal (but only for my use. I can't sell my backups). Actually I should wipe them and install the image that comes from AmigaKit, if for no other reason than I don't have mixed versions laying around. Plus playing with my EPROM burner is always fun too. :)
 

Templar

In Finem Vobis Videtur De Christiana
VIP
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
9,700
Country
Hellas
Region
Cydonia
@ davideo

Dave mate, don't worry about Tony (airey36). I'm sure that he's selling originals, he doesn't even know how to burn ROMs actually, he sells only what he buys from here and there. :D
 

tbtorro

As you wish.
VIP
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Posts
5,042
Country
Denmark
Region
Sjæland
Cloanto wrote back that they have requested the original sale (NOT airey - his are OK) to be pulled. And so it was. Case closed I gues..
 
Top Bottom