Found Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

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AndyLandy

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As per the subject, I'd like to buy the bits to make my A2000 run OS3.9
 

Zetr0

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

@Andy

Please don't mind me being nosey but what CPU do you have in your A2000?
 

scrappysphinx

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Hey Andy, if your looking for OS3.5 i have a boxed copy with manual and CD yours for £10 plus p&p
 

AndyLandy

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Zetr0 said:
Please don't mind me being nosey but what CPU do you have in your A2000?
Currently, a 7MHz 68000. (And two whole megs of FastRAM! Feel the power.)
However, all being well, I will have my Apollo 2030 by the end of the day, which will be a 25MHz 68030 and 64MB of 32-bit FastRAM. Why d'you ask? Am I going to struggle with an '030?

scrappysphinx said:
Hey Andy, if your looking for OS3.5 i have a boxed copy with manual and CD yours for £10 plus p&p
Sounds great, I'm interested (It can go in the Workbench Collection, I'm only a couple of versions short of a complete set!) -- Can you let me know postage costs and your PayPal address?
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

@ AndyLandy

OS3.9 & indeed OS3.5, require a minimum of an 020 to run, meaning your stock A2K even if fitted with 3.1 ROMS would not work under OS3.9. As with most software/hardware configurations, the faster your CPU, the better the experience. You could run OS3.1 on a stock 68000 though, providing the 3.1 ROM is in place. ;)

See this linky for hardware requirements.

Kin
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

It's fortunate that my Apollo 2030 has arrived then, isn't it? :)

The A1200 already has an 030/40 in it, so that should be powerful enough, although there is a A1200 040/40 on fleabay right now for BIN £xx, which is tempting. If only I had more cash!
 
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Kin Hell

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

That's a fair price Andy. Scrape the cash & then sell the one arriving today. ;)

Kin
 

scrappysphinx

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

pm sent andy
 

AndyLandy

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

@scrappysphinx -- I've PayPal'd you the cash and PM'd you my delivery address.

:thanks:
 

AndyLandy

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Kin Hell said:
That's a fair price Andy. Scrape the cash & then sell the one arriving today. ;)

I could scrape the cash together, but I'm not sure it's where I want to go.

I'm actually considering selling ALL my existing Amiga hardware, and putting the funds together to spend on an A4000T/060 system. Stop doing the thing piecemeal and just buy a top-end Amiga and be done with :)

Thoughts?
 

playgeneration

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

The 4000T 060 would be the more sensible option. Although its a lot of money to spend in one go, you can easily spend more over time on upgrading a 1200. And as the 060, zorro slots etc are all on the main board it will be more stable than a 1200 with expansions hanging of it everywhere in a tower.

Then again theres not much sensible about spending money on real classic amiga hardware anyway, so just have what you will enjoy most!
 

Zetr0

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

@Andy

As kinnie points out a stock 68k cpu wont handle OS3.9, in fact it wont install 3.5 however it will run (boot to workbench) on a stock 68000 cpu, but most programs etc are compiled for an 020+ instruction set, as such they either crash or refuse to work.

The Apollo A2030 is a very pretty card and a very neat Accelerator Solution and one I would be very proud to have in my collection, however is SCSI implementation is "Epically Pathetic" it works, but it will slow the processor down on access, ACT's SCSI implementations are truly dire, why do they use a PIO (programmed Input / Output) when they could of gone DMA and allowed the SCSI chip to process the data thus giving you Zero CPU time in accessing data!? The thing is, its across their entire range of Accelerator Cards from 030Mk3, A1240/60 as well.

I am however VERY sure that the Apollo will certainly serve you well, even at 40mhz its definately a kick in the pants compared to running a stock 68k (even with 24bit fast ram)

**Had this been my rig, I would probably use a GVP Impact Series 2 SCSI controller populated with atleast 4MB of RAM, as this controller uses 24Bit DMA, even with the subtle slowdown (24bit Z2 to 32bit pulic fast ram) its most likely going to be a Shhhed load faster than the APollo's PIO mode. (I have to admit i get a little geeky thinking about testing this solution)

Now about the question you actually asked LOL -

AndyLandy said:
I could scrape the cash together, but I'm not sure it's where I want to go.

I'm actually considering selling ALL my existing Amiga hardware, and putting the funds together to spend on an A4000T/060 system. Stop doing the thing piecemeal and just buy a top-end Amiga and be done with :)

Thoughts?

Hmm, theres a couple'a three problems with this...

1. You HAVE to sell your All Amigas hardware
2. You HAVE to find an A4000T/060 solution
3. The is likely to be a LARGE shortfall in cash.

In a lot of ways, this really comes down to the Amiga "experience" that you want. for me I love making them work in all maner of ways, "preferably custom", I enjoy the little geeky things about them and how they work as well as games and music writting on them.

Although I say the Above with a Top spec A4k and A1200, But the most fun (and headache) is the A2000 at the moment. I just want to get this little monster up and running with 6mb fast *2mb chip, picasso II+ and the VXL030@40, fates are infact not having none of that... I (yet again) have to build / modify another ATX PSU for it lol. but although its time consuming and a pain, I truly love this aspect of getting it all to work together, you just dont get this on PC's today... its all brick-a-brack and stickle brix

*2MB Chip is possible by a small bit of hackery on a rev 6.x A2k mobo

You see the strange thing is, up untill recently (a handfull of years ago) I NEVER thought I collected anything.... it wasn't untill I caught my self spying up on fleabay (AmiBay wasn't around in them days ;)) that I realised, I actually collected Amiga!!!

Piece-meal is a pain, there are components that you want and because of what ever reason you either miss them at *the right price* or find it difficult to save up for that component when so much else could be done with the cash.

For this end I try to trade my way around to get what I want, lucky for me I am in a position of a lot of kit to do so, (thinks dreamly back on bachelor life) I used to (and still do) collect hardware that is differnt / odd, not because of its worth or even future worth, but because it intregues me, and I cannot help myself. Ironically sometimes they end up sought after items, so I trade them where I can. Now that I have AmiBay, I can sell them at a far price as opposed to ebay, where I constantly have a pang of guilt when it goes crazy. (but this is just me I am a little backward like that lol)

To be fair though Piece-meal certainly favours the patient, I was very lucky to buy a VXL*030@40mhz (no ram) quite cheaply compaired to established prices, and less than a third of the price I saw on fleaby for its lesser 25mhz version!

Personally (and this is personally) an A4T might be a tasty bit of kit, BUT building one yourself is much more rewarding, and a fraction of the cost! all you need is the following

Accelerator (the most expensive bit lol) - choose -
  • Cyberstorm Mk2 + 128MB RAM
    [list:1tzavb2v]
  • 060@50/66 [/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • Upgradeable with FastSCSI-2 module (32bit DMA) upto 10MB per sec Zero CPU Load access[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[*]Cyberstorm Mk3 +128MB RAM
  • 060@50/66[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • Onboard U2Wide SCSI (64bit DMA)* upto 40MB per sec Zero CPU Load access[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • Upgradeable Cybervsion PPC (8MB Permedia 2 *Voodoo2 chip*) graphics[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[*]Cyberstorm PPC 604e+ (128MB RAM) (3e versions are 040's) (the '+' means it has SCSI)
  • 060@50 & PPC Companion CPU (160 - 240mhz)[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • Onboard U2Wide SCSI (64bit DMA)* upto 40MB per sec Zero CPU Load access[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • Upgradeable Cybervision PPC (8MB Permedia 2 *Voodoo2 chip*) graphics[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[/*:m:1tzavb2v][/list:u:1tzavb2v]
A4000D mobo
  • Zorro 3[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • PCI Mediator
    [list:1tzavb2v]
  • Can use Zorro Cards[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • Can use PCI cards, i.e secondary gfx cards, sound cards, network etc.[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[*]Indivision Video adapter or other scan doubler / flicker fixer solution[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[*]A nice ATX chassis that you like[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[*]SCSI HDD[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
[*]SCSI / IDE Optical Drive (would recomend the former for speed)[/*:m:1tzavb2v][/list:u:1tzavb2v]
The Supporting
  • Keyboard[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • Cocolino (Amiga joyport to PS2) & Mouse[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • A couple of Joysticks[/*:m:1tzavb2v]
  • Disk Drive 880k[/*:m:1tzavb2v]


okay now imma out type lol!
 

Zetr0

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

@AndyLandy

Unless you need that PPC edge, I would suggest the CybervisionMk3 as an Accelerator of choice, its is unargaubly the best 060 card for the A4000, (or even A3000 for that matter)

The beauty of the CMk3 is the U2Wide SCSI than can use 64bit DMA (as long as the memory on the card is set to 64bit interleaved), its phenominally quick, and will even spank a modern PC on SATA150, the best bit is that its all CPU free, so your CPU wont get bogged down by the Disk Access.

For the most Part, getting a fully up and working top spec A4000T is like a quest for the Holy Grail, If you manage to find one, its going to require a small mortgage to buy, and thats at its lowest spec to be honest.

with a Bit of carfull planning, you could buy the components and design and build the Perfect A4000T to your specifications around half the cost of an A4000T.

I know I do bang-on about managed SCSI... but I truly cannot express in words how amazing it is when properly configured, even on basic 68k chip it still amazes me just how fast and smooth everything is!
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Zetr0 said:
......I know I do bang-on about managed SCSI... but I truly cannot express in words how amazing it is when properly configured, even on basic 68k chip it still amazes me just how fast and smooth everything is!

That is absolutely Pukka gen. I remember Z demonstrating this to me once, and my jaw just hit the floor at how fast and smooth it was.
It kicks the proverbial pants of IDE no sweat, however IDE is a yardstick cheaper and can be a darn site quicker to set up.

Zetr0 said:
But the most fun (and headache) is the A2000 at the moment. I just want to get this little monster up and running with 6mb fast *2mb chip, picasso II+ and the VXL030@40, fates are infact not having none of that... I (yet again) have to build / modify another ATX PSU for it lol. but although its time consuming and a pain, I truly love this aspect of getting it all to work together

He does have a weird definition of "Fun", but it was! We spent literally hours swapping out mobos, roms, zorro cards and expansions trying to work out why his beastie would not boot and finally narrowed it down to the only thing that hadn't been swapped out, the PSU.
It was the weirdest night ever.

Mobo 1 would boot with VXL-30 accelerator and chip ram expansion.
Insert GVP SCSI zorro card, black screen.
Remove zorro card, black screen!
Remove all expansions and replace original ROMS, black screen!

Mobo 2 would boot with VXL-30 accelerator and chip ram expansion.
Insert GVP SCSI zorro card, black screen.
Remove zorro card, black screen!
Remove all expansions and replace original ROMS, black screen!

Mobo 3 boots with GVP SCSI zorro card, no other expansions fitted.
Remove GVP SCSI zorro card.
Mobo 3 would boot with VXL-30 accelerator and chip ram expansion.
Insert GVP SCSI zorro card, black screen.
Remove zorro card, black screen!
Remove all expansions and replace original ROMS, black screen!

Mobo 4 boots with no expansions fitted.
Mobo 4 boots with GVP SCSI zorro card, no other expansions fitted.
Mobo 4 boots with VXL-30 accelerator, no other expansions fitted.
Mobo 4 boots with 2Mb Chip RAM, no other expansions fitted.
Mobo 4 boots with 3.1 ROMs, no other expansions fitted.
Mobo 4 boots with 3.1 ROMs & 2Mb Chip RAM expansion fitted.
Mobo 4 boots with 3.1 ROMs, 2Mb Chip RAM expansion & VXL-30 accelerator fitted.
Insert GVP SCSI zorro card, black screen.
Remove all pieces one by one until vanilla unexpanded Mobo, black screen.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

All mobos were tested working fine, and were of differing revisions, so no clues there really. It was a puzzler and a half! A bizarre semi-resident fault that was only activated by a specific combination of cards, but hung around even after all offending items were removed.
We even tried different zorro cards, but as soon as anything touched the zorro bus, whilst the VXL-30 accelerator was plugged in, Wham! Black screen. Then that mobo was "toast" for a while.

Must be the PSU, ......or nano-goblins.
Wearliy trudge home with growling sense of defeat and disappointment. Must return and try again, it will be beaten! :boxer:
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Zetr0 said:
<snip>
The beauty of the CMk3 is the U2Wide SCSI than can use 64bit DMA (as long as the memory on the card is set to 64bit interleaved) <snip>

Not true Zetr0. The CSMKIII is fitted with SCSI-III Ultrawide controller. Also, there is nothing to set for the 64Bit addressing on the card. It does it by default. There are 4 x 72pin SIMM banks on the card & they each operate @ 32Bits wide. The card must be populated in pairs with either 2 or 4 SIMMS at all times, meaning a single SIMM will not work. This is the way the 64Bit addressing works, using 2 x 32Bit banks at the same time.
With all four sockets populated to a max of 128Mb, both double banks still operate in 64Bit mode. Effectively, this is 72Pin SIMM's working in a similar fashion to Dual Channel DDR ram.

Kin
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

@Andy, OS3.5 posted First Class this morning mate. Hopefully you'll get it before the strikes take effect.
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

:eek:fftopic: but....

Another Strike? They need to be without a frickin' job, never mind striking. :pissed:

Kin
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Kin Hell said:
Zetr0 said:
<snip>
The beauty of the CMk3 is the U2Wide SCSI than can use 64bit DMA (as long as the memory on the card is set to 64bit interleaved) <snip>

Not true Zetr0. The CSMKIII is fitted with SCSI-III Ultrawide controller. Also, there is nothing to set for the 64Bit addressing on the card. It does it by default. There are 4 x 72pin SIMM banks on the card & they each operate @ 32Bits wide. The card must be populated in pairs with either 2 or 4 SIMMS at all times, meaning a single SIMM will not work. This is the way the 64Bit addressing works, using 2 x 32Bit banks at the same time.
With all four sockets populated to a max of 128Mb, both double banks still operate in 64Bit mode. Effectively, this is 72Pin SIMM's working in a similar fashion to Dual Channel DDR ram.

Kin

I stand somewhat corrected =D

Thanks for the correcto's Kinnie!

Indeed the Cyberstorm Mk3 has a U3Wide SCSI controller my mistake I am truly sorry, Also Kinnilicious points out the Cards automatic 64bit Memory Bank Interleaving feature through the use of correct paired 32MB memory modules, again I thought this was a feature you have to activate.

Now although I donot know the intrinsic of this card (Kinnie I think has had one or its bigger brother) IF the card is not using 64bit Ram Interleaving (hence stuck in 32bit mode) then I dont believe you are going to get the full U3Wide SCSI 3 speed of upto 40MB per sec, I would hazzard a *professional* estimation of around half that say upto 20MB a sec... which is still nearly twice as fast as ATA100 IDE

of course Kinnie can put me outa my misery by confirming the hypothesis or by blowing it outa the water, but I must know.

tell me! tell me! tell me! tell me! :woot:
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Okay Zeets....
A lot depends on the type of SCSI drive used when wanting to know effective transfer speeds. With my now ex. CSMKIII @ stock speeds, I would easily see 26Mb/Sec from a 68pin 10k IBM affair. When overclocked on the SCSI & RAM, I was pushing 34-35Mb/sec Sync. Little wonder the CSMKIII finally rolled over only some months later, only to give me a grey screen. :sigh:
The CSMKIII's bigger brother with the PPC capabilities performs in exactly the same manner. You really have to see a G-Rex 4000D perform off these cards. It's an Amiga to die for. :inlove:

Kin
 

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Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

Re: WTB: Kickstart 3.1 ROM for A2000 and Workbench 3.5/3.9

The Cyberstorm sounds like a fantastic piece of hardware. It also looks like I might eventually find a home for the stack of 18/36GB Seagate Cheetah disks that I have lying around the place!

:drool:

Time to have a nice long think about where I want to go next.
 
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