Lost in Translation

gavilan

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Hello guys: im readin ga lot about latest notebooks/netbooks, to find out which one woud be ok for my every day computing (unfortunately i can find the P.A.W.S machine anywhere :D )

i can´t seem to understand some words, and would like your help, since english not being my native language, sometimes i cant translate words and would need a little "explanation".

for example: discrete graphics and progressive design. I guess discrete would be something like "onboard graphics" and progressive design meaning something like "modern, latest design"??

Am i right on this?

Have some other words, that dont come to my mind right now but will post for sure later

Thanks!
Sebastian
 

StrontiumDog

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Discrete Graphics: The graphics are on a plug-in card and not integrated on the mainboard. Integrated GFX normally shares machine RAM for it's own use, discrete cards have their own.

Progressive Design: Just fancy words to say it looks nice :)
 

moijk

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Hello guys: im readin ga lot about latest notebooks/netbooks, to find out which one woud be ok for my every day computing (unfortunately i can find the P.A.W.S machine anywhere :D )

Don't read, try :) netbooks are very similar, due to intels regulations on what can and cannot run the atom processors.

notebooks - get at least core 2 duo, i5 is also nice. i7 if you need some serious power. Discrete graphics are also nice if you do some games or even photoshop CS4 or later.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ is a nice resource to compare graphics and processors on notebooks.

I prefer macbook pros myself, but I do have a couple of pc laptops. I would suggest Lenovo Thinkpad for build quality based on owning two IBM Thinkpads and one Lenovo Thinkpad (Lenovo probably built one of the two IBM laptops as well). I hate flimsy laptops, probably why I want to kill myself every time I use my acer timeline 4810tz. (probably bad advertisement considering I'd love to sell it off)
 

cosmicfrog

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for netbook see MSI wind or clone of
 

meega

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Discrete Graphics: The graphics are on a plug-in card and not integrated on the mainboard. Integrated GFX normally shares machine RAM for it's own use, discrete cards have their own.
I pretty much agree with that, although it might be possible to have discrete graphics with own dedicated RAM on the motherboard (but I'm not aware of anyone doing that). I think the essential aspect of "discrete" is separate - which would normally mean a plug-in card.

I have an old PC with a PCI graphics card that can AGP the system RAM over the PCI bus (believe it or not) which means that "little" 4MB card can do graphics operations using the entire available main RAM space... and I have 512MB in there! It is discrete graphics which can also share the system RAM, but can't display anything requiring more than 4MB as that is all it has for actually drawing the screen.

Progressive Design: Just fancy words to say it looks nice :)
But Progressive Rock is not nice to listen to. :D
 

rkauer

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But Progressive Rock is not nice to listen to. :D

Says who?:mad:

I love prog-rock. At least the classics: Yes, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and others.(y)
 
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meega

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The Piper at the Gates of Dawn is one of my favourites, they went downhill quite a bit later on... nothing "progressive" about releasing the same Roger Waters album several times over. ;)


Ed: examples of "progressive" PC design
c477-7562-main.jpg
scythe_01.jpg

51nlEXmQ5rL.jpg


Yuk. YMMV.
 

tokyoracer

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I would certainly look for a laptop with a seperate GFX card, I wish all laptops had this I really do, I can't believe it's taken so-long to take effect.

The Piper at the Gates of Dawn is one of my favourites, they went downhill quite a bit later on... nothing "progressive" about releasing the same Roger Waters album several times over. ;)
Oh yes that Dark Side of the Moon wasn't as good as their first album which wasn't in any way a typical 60's experimental throwback. :nuts: :roll:
 

jvdbossc

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I would go for what you are going to do with that machine ...

I don't notice much difference on machines using firefox on linux, and that is my 90% time spending...

If anything else comes up... Like image editing, I' like my new quad core setup a lot then.. A little faster in general, but once it takes on a serious task like render an image from 6x 40 MB files (hdr) it makes a differnence...
 

gavilan

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Discrete Graphics: The graphics are on a plug-in card and not integrated on the mainboard. Integrated GFX normally shares machine RAM for it's own use, discrete cards have their own.

Progressive Design: Just fancy words to say it looks nice :)

@all: thanks for sharing the info with me. Very good, specially the suggested brands and the url!!!!

But, one little thing.... when you say that the graphics are on a plug-in card....you mean that inside the notebook there is some sort of "slot" where the discrete graphics card goes in??

So, if i see one machine that in the specs tells that it has discrete graphics, it means it will be much better than a "built-in" solution, right???

Discrete graphic cards only apply to netbooks/notebooks?
What about desktops? they have PCI/AGP/PCI-e slots. That means they are "dedicated" slots, so would these slot mean what discrete graphics mean to laptops???
 

StrontiumDog

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But, one little thing.... when you say that the graphics are on a plug-in card....you mean that inside the notebook there is some sort of "slot" where the discrete graphics card goes in??

Yes

So, if i see one machine that in the specs tells that it has discrete graphics, it means it will be much better than a "built-in" solution, right???

Yes but it doesn't hurt to test drive the machine or read the online reviews for it first :)

Discrete graphic cards only apply to netbooks/notebooks?
What about desktops? they have PCI/AGP/PCI-e slots. That means they are "dedicated" slots, so would these slot mean what discrete graphics mean to laptops???

Yes, you got it in one :)
 

jvdbossc

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I'll try to be more on topic for once:

I could be wrong but to me a discrete graphics card has it's own ram, meaning that the GpU is only used for graphics processing, meaning more speed.

:nod:

then about the slot I am not sure but most laptops have a standart theste day's where these discrete graphics card fit in, anyhow not much choice on them so, meaning on the motherboard or in a slot means not much:whistle:

---------- Post added at 20:25 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

what Blankstare told about test it first would be a good idea, don't go blind, based on the terms, it all depends on various factors, eg you could source a very old graphic slot based card with the dedicated graphics, and compare it with ..
 

Kin Hell

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Not just Laptops. Any Mobo with onboard Graphics is Discrete Graphics.

Kin
 

meega

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So, if i see one machine that in the specs tells that it has discrete graphics, it means it will be much better than a "built-in" solution, right???
Not necessarily, the discrete component might be crappy, and some onboard components might be excellent. The advantage of a separate card is that you can change it for another one. :)

Discrete graphic cards only apply to netbooks/notebooks?
What about desktops? they have PCI/AGP/PCI-e slots. That means they are "dedicated" slots, so would these slot mean what discrete graphics mean to laptops???
PCI is a general interface, it is not "dedicated" to anything, however most PCI-based machines have a preferred slot for the graphics card (often the second one down from the top). You can put graphics cards in other slots, the order of the cards can make a difference to how things work. You can have more than one graphics card in a machine, I've done that in my old PC (no AGP in that one) and, as most machines only have one AGP slot (if any), the additional card(s) go in PCI slots. If you have onboard graphics you can often add a separate card which either replaces the built-in device or allows for two outputs.

Most AGP slots are supposed to be used for graphics only (that is what the Accelerated Graphics Port interface was primarily designed for) but some cards include other functionality (e.g. a sound chip that I recall being integrated on an AGP graphics accelerator card that a friend had in his machine).

PCI-e is again a general interface, albeit one mostly used (so far) for graphics cards - but if you want to use gigabit network cards you aren't likely to be using older interfaces (the 33MHz PCI standard is getting saturated by one such card!)... There still aren't many machines with more than two PCI-e slots, but eventually that interface will replace all previous ones or itself be rendered obsolete by the next big thing.
 

gavilan

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Hello guys: im readin ga lot about latest notebooks/netbooks, to find out which one woud be ok for my every day computing (unfortunately i can find the P.A.W.S machine anywhere :D )

Don't read, try :) netbooks are very similar, due to intels regulations on what can and cannot run the atom processors.

notebooks - get at least core 2 duo, i5 is also nice. i7 if you need some serious power. Discrete graphics are also nice if you do some games or even photoshop CS4 or later.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ is a nice resource to compare graphics and processors on notebooks.

I prefer macbook pros myself, but I do have a couple of pc laptops. I would suggest Lenovo Thinkpad for build quality based on owning two IBM Thinkpads and one Lenovo Thinkpad (Lenovo probably built one of the two IBM laptops as well). I hate flimsy laptops, probably why I want to kill myself every time I use my acer timeline 4810tz. (probably bad advertisement considering I'd love to sell it off)

Wow, thanks a lot for the link!! straight to bookmarks!! :D
Also...my new job is at Lenovo...soy i guess you may be imagining where im narrowing my search right now...but i seem to find anywhere only "discrete graphics" machines, and tought to them as to be "not good graphics"

The main usage of the machine will be to write (after all, im a journalist, and spend lot, and lot of time writing/reading/checking), and some Internet surfing, playingmusic and eventually watching a movie or do some little MAME.... :D

Im writing this in a Lenovo ThinkPad R400. And you are right, they are tough machines, rock solid (nevermind, they dont have "progressive design", but hey, i want a machine that works for me, not a machine to look in the mirror to say how beauty she is :LOL: ). And yes, AFAIK, ALL IBM notebook division were built by Legend Group (a.k.a. Lenovo today)

So, to sum it up all: discrete graphics = "dedicated" graphics with its own RAM?

Thanks a lot guys for the info

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

So, if i see one machine that in the specs tells that it has discrete graphics, it means it will be much better than a "built-in" solution, right???
Not necessarily, the discrete component might be crappy, and some onboard components might be excellent. The advantage of a separate card is that you can change it for another one. :)

Discrete graphic cards only apply to netbooks/notebooks?
What about desktops? they have PCI/AGP/PCI-e slots. That means they are "dedicated" slots, so would these slot mean what discrete graphics mean to laptops???
PCI is a general interface, it is not "dedicated" to anything, however most PCI-based machines have a preferred slot for the graphics card (often the second one down from the top). You can put graphics cards in other slots, the order of the cards can make a difference to how things work. You can have more than one graphics card in a machine, I've done that in my old PC (no AGP in that one) and, as most machines only have one AGP slot (if any), the additional card(s) go in PCI slots. If you have onboard graphics you can often add a separate card which either replaces the built-in device or allows for two outputs.

Most AGP slots are supposed to be used for graphics only (that is what the Accelerated Graphics Port interface was primarily designed for) but some cards include other functionality (e.g. a sound chip that I recall being integrated on an AGP graphics accelerator card that a friend had in his machine).

PCI-e is again a general interface, albeit one mostly used (so far) for graphics cards - but if you want to use gigabit network cards you aren't likely to be using older interfaces (the 33MHz PCI standard is getting saturated by one such card!)... There still aren't many machines with more than two PCI-e slots, but eventually that interface will replace all previous ones or itself be rendered obsolete by the next big thing.

So...technically...can i open a notebook and "change" the discrete card for another one better or for a separate/dedicated graphics card?? How to know which ones are crappy? Is there a knowledge database that shows which discrete cards are "crappy"? Sorry for my ignorance...still have a lot to learn concerning laptops i guess.

Yes, i know PCI and PCI-e are "general", but i was referring exlcusively to their usage by a graphics card

Im aware that eventually, all PCI slots will be replaced by PCI-e slots...

so i guess Jens will have a lot of work to do to do a PCI-e Catweasel version then :LOL:
 
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