Notice to fellow AmiBayers

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Zetr0

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My fellow Amibayers

Today I log into the site for the first time in non senior role.

I was not notified that 4 members had voted me out. I was not informed that my position would be relieved until it just has.

I am utterly gutted that Merlin, Harrison, TheCorfiot and AndyLany didn't bother to notifiy me and coluded in secret to get rid of me.

I have only the best interests in the members here as I was fighting for thier rights and for common sense/deceny to play a part in what is AmiBay.

Instead you now have a click of 4 members whom will ride rough over anything that they dont agree with.

I will have more say on the matter, but right now I have been seriously stabbed in the back on purpose, my effort to help rebuild the team was ignored, and in all truth it was a platitude to rid me from the site as I did not agree with the persistent trashing of members and their rights.


Back in November 2007 I created a small forum based trading board with my good friend Sarek2k and AmiBay was born, we did this after the demise of AmiBench. we wanted the site to be simple and open to all. We built up a group of our friends whom wanted to help and AmiBay went from strength to strength.

I would like to point out to the now admin staff that I made my own copies of logs of the Admin section, and you obviously coluded to remove my access last week and then lie about it to my face (or internet avatar).

if they will do that to me... they will do that to anyone.
 

Merlin

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@ Zetr0

I'm sorry to have to correct you, but the truth is in print over at Oldskool UK. The project was put together in December 2007 by DaZZaBoy, Sarek2k, You and I, with Harrison joining a week later.

For you to claim the project as being totally yours is completely wrong.
 

arnljot

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I just saw you post on my message page to, I hope you don´t mind me quoting it here:

Hiyas arnljot,

Alas the first I knew about it was when I logged in this morning. they have not sent me a PM or email... nothing...

There are several issues here, at first I thought we should just accept what´s happened, despite it being like imnogeek saying "a black day".

But:
1) The announcement as Jonh(skilgannon) pointed out is way too detailed. It doesn´t work to calm the situation, it heats it.
2) We´re talking about four people here. All in UK, so phone calls are possible to talk directly to eachother, heck even skype has easy group call funtions.
3) If Keith is correct that this happens without notification or warning, then it´s also worrisome. I need some time to collect my thoughts because right now I´m too upset to put into writing what I´m thinking.

---

Keith, John and mods. One simple question first.

What about merging the two general chat threads about this?
 

fitzsteve

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Keith,

I really don't know what to say, I haven't been around all that long but for me you are the face of Amibay and its such a shame its come to this.

Wishing you all the best mate.

Steve.
 

Zetr0

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@ Zetr0

I'm sorry to have to correct you, but the truth is in print over at Oldskool UK. The project was put together in December 2007 by DaZZaBoy, Sarek2k, You and I, with Harrison joining a week later.

For you to claim the project as being totally yours is completely wrong.


wow, you talk.... did a PM about you removing me as admin skip your mind?

can I point out you epicly poor level of Administration?... naa I dont need too... you do that with every post you make.

now.

Mark and I started AmiBay, within a week we went to Dazzy with the idea.. your involvment were much later...

I have never said the AmiBay project was mine, its the members ALL of them.. those that read this today, its theirs and NOT yours.

be advised even if you ban my account here it will not be the end of it.

you, bas, david and andy have coluded in my exclusion from AmiBay since January.

the four of you enforced a rule that was against the community eithc with a near equal opposition.

if you want to get into yet anothe troll fest (whcih is your MO dave) I have no wish to... so troll on troll boy... with every post your level of pedant increases and any respect the members might of had for you will be lost.

you cannot deny that four (of whom I thought of as friends) coluded together in secret via phone / Pm to oust me for dissagreeing.

and instead of building on what we were doing (thats the constitution) you decided to rid me so that you can have it YOUR way.

nice.... lets the poeple here know what you are Dave.
 

arnljot

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Z, that´s terrible. It seems that this is a bad conflict as the admins announcement message alluded to.

First of I think it´s terrible the way they´ve handled it towards you, secondly it´s also poorly handled towards the members and let it spill out like this.

When it has. We have to deal with it. I tried to contain it at first in the other thread, but it seems that it was futile as understandably when you´ve been told the way you´ve been you deserve to have your say.
 

Merlin

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I just want to put on record that I have NEVER tried to claim this project as my own; it has always been a community project right from the start as far as I am concerned.

I also want to put on record that although I am also a founder member, I have always felt that it confers no special rights or privileges to go along with that title; it just means that I was here from the start. Unfortunately, that view isn't shared by Zetr0.

For Zetr0 to claim that it was "all his idea" is so far off the mark it's not funny; the truth is out there. This is exactly the sort of thing that we have stated in our message to all AmiBayers, that he wanted the right as a Founder to veto and reverse any decision that he didn't agree with and over-ride the other Admins.

Is what he wants really in the best interests of AmiBay?
 

arnljot

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Dave, the best intrest of Amibay was put aside some 3 or 4 hours ago...

I observe that close friends have fallen out with eachother. And always when that happens, it´s very bitter.

I´m not going to comment on a constitution I haven´t seen in it´s entirity. Also, with out annottions and remarks from all who´ve contributed (yourself, Keith, Andy, Harrison and TheCorifot). Even if such material were to be published it wouldn´t help much now as feelings have been hurt, words have been had and bystanders been drawn in.

Merlin, if this was a conflict at your workplace. How would it best be handled now?

I think that it´s time to reflect, especially for the administration team as you remain in a position of authority, and also because the way it was announced.

What you should do towards Keith is a matter between you, but it looks like that he´s been cancelled from the admin team in an equally poor way as the announcement was handled.
 

Merlin

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@ meega

Yes, December 2007, not 2008 as Zetr0 stated and edited later. At the start, both you and Kin Hell were also involved in getting the site up and running, hence the VIP status you both have.

@ all

I'm not attempting to re-write history at all here. What I am trying to get across is that claims are being made about the ownership of this project that became AmiBay by Keith that are just not true.
 

status

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It doesn't matter who started amibay people.

There where some wrong moves from the board of admins and they seem fixable.

have patience and dont panic.

(ow god i forget my english:S)
 

arnljot

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@ all

I'm not attempting to re-write history at all here. What I am trying to get across is that claims are being made about the ownership of this project that became AmiBay by Keith that are just not true.

Your posts (Dave and Keith) reads to me that you both agree that it´s the communitys propperty and the communitys effort that AmiBaY is what it is today.

Differences in perspective as what happened back in the founding days can be allowed for as I´m sure that everyone who´s been in a self organizing team knows that not everyone talks to everyone in the beginning about whats about to happen.

What you disagree on is what you think the other means and wants with the "founder" title.

Thats what it reads like to me.

That is something as I´ve pointed out should have remained in the admin section until it were mature to share with the members, the community.

Now that it has spilled over here it might be too late, also other issues of how this has been handled has been brought up.

Right now, I think those are more important for the site administrators and staff to address, rather that discussing ownership of the site.

That should surely wait.
 

Zetr0

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.... blip... bliglgle and drool...

he wanted the right as a Founder to veto and reverse any decision that he didn't agree with and over-ride the other Admins.

Is what he wants really in the best interests of AmiBay?


I never wanted it, quite the contrary, but when common sense was not used, and your epic failing on the understand of what is democracy forced me to stand up to the members YOU were riding over...


the particular instance you are refering too I have logs for, 3:3 and then when one other member agreeed (11 days after the particular thread on the matter was droped) you (and your click) made it rule within 24hours - there was not vote.

yet you still defend it as democracy... lol...

Yet dispite of that and dispite the completely combative nature of YOUR administration, you wont accept any fault, you would rather try and justify your sanctomonus failure to the memebers here, to behonest I dont think any of them would buy it.

If however anyone would like logs, I have many of them.

IMHO You have NEVER given the members here a fair chance IMHO, instead to enjoy belittling them, rattling them and attemting to get a rise from them, but I have said this already in the staff and admin forums.

Just take a moment here...

I am member Zero... I fully expeceted to move on in time from the AmiBay Project as I have many others I wanted to do... however your epic failure as an administrator kept bringing me back to try and argue focus for this project.

Instead of PM'ing me.. or even allowing me enought time to clear out my proverbial desk... YOU went behind the back of another founder member and removed him....

And then stuck up an announcement that for the most part is a complete fabrication to justify your actions..

I do hope that you are VERY proud of your achievement, that goes to Andylandy, TheCorfiot and Harrison as well.


I want each and everyone one of you to know, that as long as you all agree you will have a place on the senor staff... however you are likely to be ousted if you dont.


The action you have taken today was not in the interest in AmiBay but to platituted your own bruised egos....


the members can see that.... its a shame none of you can.


I want to clarify, I only came up with the idea with mark... what makes amibay is the members... i didn't do that they did.
 

RedDaemonFox

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This, I have to say is terrible. I don't quite get all of it, because it has come so fast, but this is definitely unexpected. However, I have to say it seems to be doing nothing but tear this site apart. Why can't we just set this bull aside for the joy of sharing a common interest. The site is a collaboration of people, not just the admins, and although It'd be wrong for one to take credit, I'm willing to overlook it as long as its not a repeated offense, for the sake of the site and its members. Especially when its a dev, and especially when it results in Mods leaving because of it.

Bottom, line, build a bridge and get over it.

Reading Zetr0's new post, removing a person of Amidev status without warning was what people like Stalin, Lenin, Brezhnev, Hitler and many others, then they sent you to a labor camp. I guess you can't do all of it here, but it seems with the last five months, with the appointing of another AmiDev, were you planning to remove Zetr0 all along? Probably not, and he made a mistake, but the thing friends WOULD do is forgive the incident and move on, your behavior is definitely inappropriate for the offense. Put any of the regular members in Zetr0's skin, would you ban them?
 

Zetr0

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I tried Dreamy, I really did....

however they decided not to bother and (for the want of a better word) kicked me.
 

Merlin

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Toy throwing, rant and trolling...

That's your view; it's going to get interesting once Kin Hell turns up to comment about this whole thing....
 

Zetr0

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LOL why dave have you phoned him?
 

arnljot

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I´m glad Charlie is a headstong sensible fellow. It´s not easy to be pulled into a conflict like this.

Maybe it´s time for the staff to ask for a time out?
 

Justin

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this should NOT be happening in the members areas!! this is a phone call or PM situation, i am no MOD but even i can tell this is a baiting war, you are a senior member and really should know better
 
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