Should there be disclaimers on any new Amiga Hardware being produced and sold.

Boing-ball

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Not having a go at any of the new projects and great stuff being produced and sold but…

As of late a lot of new products gets released and then sold via sites such as Amigakit, Amigastore etc..

If you were new to the Amiga scene or haven’t been keeping up with new developments. Do you think it is reasonable a disclaimer should be pointed out by sellers/re-sellers about what you are buying?

for example. I bought a BFG9060 for one of my A4000 systems. The system is based around a SCSI setup, specifically a Phase 5 Z3 FastLane SCSI card. When I bought this card, there was no mention that this would not be compatible with my SCSI setup. Yet when you post about this on Forums, you get the “Oh didn’t you know that the BFG9060 isn’t compatible with SCSI it’s currently being worked on” replies.

the same for TF cards where certain things won’t work etc…

I know companies need to sell to make profits and keep going. But surely it’s a reasonable ask.
 

miggymad

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If nothing specific is mentioned in the advert then 9 times out of 10 people will just buy the product in a blind rush anyway. That odd one will usually seek further info from forums or direct from the seller before parting with their money

So the big question here appears to be,, did you do your due diligence in ascertaining if the item was suitable for your setup before purchase? I suspect no but happy to be corrected if you did.

That old Latin saying to be appropriate in this situation - Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.
 

Boing-ball

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If nothing specific is mentioned in the advert then 9 times out of 10 people will just buy the product in a blind rush anyway. That odd one will usually seek further info from forums or direct from the seller before parting with their money

So the big question here appears to be,, did you do your due diligence in ascertaining if the item was suitable for your setup before purchase? I suspect no but happy to be corrected if you did.

That old Latin saying to be appropriate in this situation - Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.
Okay. So when I looked into buying a BFG9060. I read the blurb about how this was a new card, there is support for this, etc..etc..etc..
But I could see no disclaimers about. “Oh it’s not currently suitable for SCSI use” or The version of the firmware may not allow you to do this… Yet that firmware can’t be updated as easily without certain hardware bought extra to do this.

The BFG9060 is just one example I have personally bought. There are other occasions when I’ve seen people buy other new Hardware examples only to find it wasn’t suitable for purpose.

If I went off your logic And say buying a new car that supposed to have Cruise control with radar. But If I drove that car on a certain part of a motorway where it doesn’t work… Then would you be happy?

I know, not the best example…
 

miggymad

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You'd probably take the car back to the dealer and rant.

Why not do likewise with the BFG9000 or resell it?



Disclaimer: The content above is strictly for educational purposes and does not amount to professional advice.
 

Boing-ball

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You'd probably take the car back to the dealer and rant.

Why not do likewise with the BFG9000 or resell it?



Disclaimer: The content above is strictly for educational purposes and does not amount to professional advice.

So yes I could do that… But then wouldn’t I be dishonest by reselling a card which would have to lose value because it didn’t do what it said?

With a car, yes I would take it back to the dealer for a full refund. I know I Picked the wrong example to use there 😉
 

Xanxi

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BFG9060 and most of the new stuff are hobby stuff.
I think the support is excellent for hobby non professional stuff, there is a friendly communauty of thousands of people to rely on via numerous media (Amiga boards, Discord, Facebook groups, etc).
There are so much different Amiga configurations out there, including some very rare or very expensive pieces of hardware, that no one could test everything before making something available.
Or else, buyer just need to wait for rev X.XX, after the hardware has spread out in the communauty and feedback has come from everyone to fix (or not) the issues.
 

Boing-ball

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BFG9060 and most of the new stuff are hobby stuff.
I think the support is excellent for hobby non professional stuff, there is a friendly communauty of thousands of people to rely on via numerous media (Amiga boards, Discord, Facebook groups, etc).
There are so much different Amiga configurations out there, including some very rare or very expensive pieces of hardware, that no one could test everything before making something available.
Or else, buyer just need to wait for rev X.XX, after the hardware has spread out in the communauty and feedback has come from everyone to fix (or not) the issues.

But you nailed it on the head. There are so much different Amiga configurations. So shouldn’t that be made aware before buying?
 

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Is this really any different than anything else you buy? It may or may not work with your configuration. Why do you think motherboards have hardware comparability lists.

I think you have to do your own research before making a purchase decision. Just be happy we have soo many options these days for big box Amigas.
 

Boing-ball

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Is this really any different than anything else you buy? It may or may not work with your configuration. Why do you think motherboards have hardware comparability lists.

I think you have to do your own research before making a purchase decision. Just be happy we have soo many options these days for big box Amigas.

Motherboard Hardware Comparabilty lists? Where is this list? Now for someone like myself who thinks they are clued up about this… And then you have the complete Noob coming into the Amiga Scene… This is where my point lies.

I get what you talk about, Yes ideally with everything you do your research. But you have to admit with the amount of new hardware coming out (Especially at the early stages), then this information will not be out there at the outset.
So therefore why not a Disclaimer?

I think those in the know would say “But it’s new hardware etc…etc.”. But for those looking to spend their hard earned cash on something they want to get into and the most out of. Will be very put off if what they bought turned out not what they expected.

I am very happy with what is available out there and that the Amiga Community is banding together to bring out new hardware.
 

qz3fwd

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Disclaimers would just scare off customers and sellers will never do this. Ask your questions up front, do your research, inquire about the conditions of sale and make your decision just like any other item you might buy. It’s pretty simple.

Remember, there is usually an implicit assumption in the Amiga world that “it is obvious”, “everybody has knows that for 20 years”, blah blah, which is just the way it is and an invalid assumption for someone like me who just got into Amigas 3 years ago.
 

pms

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Problems with Amiga and hardware configurations are not new.
I remember the 90's. I bought an expensive GVP-GForce with SCSI, memory and 030 processor.
But it turned out it wasn't compatible with the Commodore SCSI card already in my Amiga 2000.
This incompatibility was never mentioned in the adverts for the GVP card.

But the GVP dealer recognized the problem and offered me to switch the old Commodore card for a new GVP HC+8 SCSI card. (for free)
 

JHanna

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Not having a go at any of the new projects and great stuff being produced and sold but…

As of late a lot of new products gets released and then sold via sites such as Amigakit, Amigastore etc..

If you were new to the Amiga scene or haven’t been keeping up with new developments. Do you think it is reasonable a disclaimer should be pointed out by sellers/re-sellers about what you are buying?

for example. I bought a BFG9060 for one of my A4000 systems. The system is based around a SCSI setup, specifically a Phase 5 Z3 FastLane SCSI card. When I bought this card, there was no mention that this would not be compatible with my SCSI setup. Yet when you post about this on Forums, you get the “Oh didn’t you know that the BFG9060 isn’t compatible with SCSI it’s currently being worked on” replies.

the same for TF cards where certain things won’t work etc…

I know companies need to sell to make profits and keep going. But surely it’s a reasonable ask.

Yes 100%.

Going through this right now. Apparently the Zorro termination on the A4000T doesn't work properly when running a BFG9060 at 100MHz, so currently trying to get that resolved, which I can't.
 

Boing-ball

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Yes 100%.

Going through this right now. Apparently the Zorro termination on the A4000T doesn't work properly when running a BFG9060 at 100MHz, so currently trying to get that resolved, which I can't.
Funnilly enough (Or not so), just been going through issues with a Micronik 6069 Tower board on my A4000D ACILL with the Trident Lite USB board. Even though the Board is being shown as a Z3, I have had to forcibly set it to Z2 and use the Z2 driver with Posiedon to get it to work properly. I sold my BFG as it wouldn’t work with my Z3 FastLane 🤷🏻‍♂️ I feel your pain….
 

Xanxi

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Well, that's why old hardware like Blizzard, Cyberstorm, Apollo, retain all its value.
 

Boing-ball

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Well, that's why old hardware like Blizzard, Cyberstorm, Apollo, retain all its value.
I sort of agree with that statement. But they are also no longer made. Therefore accelerators like the Cyberstorm PPC boards are very hard to get, therefore rarity also plays a factor. As for the Blizzards. Plenty of 1230’s for sale. They have plummeted in value now, maybe also because of the TF1230 and other cards being manufactured. Very hard to find any 1240 Blizzards, the odd 1260 comes up for sale, but again TF1260, Warp1260 and also a lot of 1240 boards got converted to 68060’s.
 

JHanna

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DJ cook is looking to do a 060 card for the A4000 soon. It boasts a 100Mhz clockable 060 plus USB etc.. It’s on GitHub.
I was waiting on a TF4060 but life's too short. Hope I can get this A4000T working properly. Need someone to manufacture the active terminators that Matze designed. They are unobtainable currently 😞
 

Boing-ball

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I was waiting on a TF4060 but life's too short. Hope I can get this A4000T working properly. Need someone to manufacture the active terminators that Matze designed. They are unobtainable currently 😞
I watched the Presentation Steve Leary did on RMC’s YouTube channel. Looks like he’s trying to get the board to recognise up to 256MB of RAM. But not having much luck. Even if he did release one now, it will be the same as the other boards that get release, where you’ll end up being the BETA tester! 🙄
 
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