Super Buster 11? Why?

abraXXious

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Hey guys,

I have two A4000s and one A3000. All have revision 9 Super Buster chips... I have cybervision 64/3ds, Cybervision 64s, Tocattos, Deneb USB, Adriadne II etc etc installed.

Everything works perfectly.

So, my question is, exactly what does the rev 11 do that the 9 does not, or what hardware REQUIRES a revision 11?
 

AndyLandy

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There's a lot of mixed advice on Buster revisions. Most A3000s shipped with a rev -05, -06 or -07 (Known as Fat Buster), this is a Zorro III Buster chip, but doesn't support Direct Memory Access (DMA) to the Zorro cards. A4000s shipped with rev -09 or -11 (Known as Super Buster) (Some very early A4000s might have had -07)

You need a -09 or a -11 to run Zorro DMA master cards. Most notably, the A4091, DENEB and Z3 Fastlane can take advantage of DMA.

-11 Super Buster fixes some bugs over the -09 version and is required to make an A4091 work. As I understand it, the A4091 is the only card that requires a -11. There are rumours that other cards do, but also claims that they work without. I'm told the Z3 Fastlane should work fine with -09 and I've seen claims that ZorRAM works even with -07

As I understand it, neither -09 or -11 handles multiple bus master cards at the same time, so you'll have difficulty either way if you try running a Fastlane and a DENEB in the same machine, at least one will need the DMA disabled. I think -11 handles things more gracefully than -09, but neither will actually give you maximum performance out of both cards at the same time.
 

abraXXious

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Andy! My own personal tech advisor. :)

Thanks for the info mate. So what you are saying is that it is not worth purchasing a revision 11 if I already have 9s and have no problems?

Its not like a rev 11 will speed up zorro 3 access to a Cybervision 64 or anything?
 

AndyLandy

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Andy! My own personal tech advisor. :)

Thanks for the info mate. So what you are saying is that it is not worth purchasing a revision 11 if I already have 9s and have no problems?

Its not like a rev 11 will speed up zorro 3 access to a Cybervision 64 or anything?

I think the end of that clause sums it up. Try it with -09 and see what happens, if things go all crazy, try upgrading to -11.

I'm still working out what I should do. I've got a -07 in the A3000 and a -09 in the A4000. I've got a -11 on order, but I'm not sure whether to put it in the 3k or the 4k (migrating the -09 to the 3k). I don't know if it even matters.

I'm sure I read somewhere that -11 fixes some bugs in the A3000 that -09 doesn't, but I can't find where I read it. Maybe I just imagined it. :)
 

hikey

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When upgrading to buster 11 on an A4000, there is also an updated PAL/GAL (391477-02) for U213 which should be done if the current version is 391477-01.
It fixes some potential problems with zorro->chipram accesses.
 

sunnykwan

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I have a similar A3000 setup: MKII 68060 128mb, Deneb, Cybervision 64 4mb, Super Buster 09 which replaced Buster 07.

I hoped by upgrading to Buster 09 and flashrom Deneb Buster9IdTag would allow Deneb to operate in DMA mode. Unfortunately due to A3000 Zorro III & Buster 09 quirks the system became unstable, R/W Errors & froze in DMA mode. Deneb works fine in PIO mode.

Supposedly Buster 09 would allow Deneb to work with another busmaster such as the Fastlane Z3 in DMA mode. Despite installing heatsinks, fans, GALS replacement my A3000 SCSI becomes wonky (R/W errors) when internal temps on the Zorro slots side of the case becomes 35-40deg C. I would like to try a Fastlane Z3 but would it work with Z3 CV64 & Deneb together?

I've emailed Mboehmer from E3B regarding my A3000-Deneb-Buster issues....a big problem is he himself doesn't have A3000 to test & troubleshoot its unique quirks. I wish it was possible somebody could loan him a A3000 so he can debug and offer Deneb upgrades faster and who knows even DMA could work.


http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51456&page=4


I agree if your A3000 system is working & stable don't bother with Super Buster 11 unless you want to try installing a ZorRam.

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958
 

Kin Hell

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Buster 11 is required for ZORRO III cards to manipulate Multiple DMA Channels correctly. No way will an A4091 or Z3 Fastlane SCSI card work in a ZORRO III miggy with Buster 9. It will fall over & lock up on the SCSI Bus when another DMA channel is called. I lived this one & had my very first A4KD upgraded by WANG. They were responsible for C= Home Warranties in 1992 until their demise in April '94.

When the service guy came to replace Buster 9 with an 11, I got a complete Mobo swap out as mine was surface mounted Rev 9. (n)

Not O.T. but, ....heh, ....through the WANG Engineer, I also scored a very cheap A3640 which Over-Clocked to 33Mhz. :)

There were some issues with C= upgrading Buster09 to 11 & the A3640 processor cards going from Rev 3.0 to 3.1 & finally Rev 3.2. This all happened at the same time. With GAL Chip U209 showing a -03 for Rev 3.2, -02 for a Rev 3.1 & -01 for a Rev 3.0. This DMA cock-up did not go down well with Old Skool Amiga fans from the A3000 days, along with the fact you had to have an A4KT to get on-board SCSI. :|

I'm digressing, but it's all part & parcel of the whole she-bang. Buster always was a pain in the ass of all the Amiga Custom Chips. Anyway, slap a Rev 11 Buster in your A4KD & you have multiple ZORRO III DMA channels waiting to be used.

My i7 4.2Ghz X58 monster has one DMA channel. :| :LOL:

Kin
 

drbrain

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Buster 11 only support one busmaster-card. So using a A4091/Fastlane and Deneb Z3 DMA wouldn't work?
PIO with Deneb will of course always work.

With Buster 9 it's possible to use Fastlane and Deneb DMA as both cards have a workaround.

Some useful information is available at E3B's homepage... http://www.e3b.de/usb/main_faq_e.html
Dave Haynie comment on Buster revisions... http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=1454

Which of the Buster revisions that's best seems to depend on what cards you want to run in your system.
 

AndyLandy

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Thanks for that excellent summary, Charlie.

One question, I was advised that a Fastlane should work with Super Buster -09, it's simply that you can't use more than one DMA master with a -09. Do you know if this is the case?
 

Kin Hell

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Yes Andy, exactly right. Buster 11 would allow multiple DMA calls for ZORRO III cards. Buster 09 would not with certain cards and mainly the top end SCSI affairs.

Deneb is another matter & entirely based on what I've read. I've never had the pleasure, but the HighWay was great. (y)

Is the CPU loading really that bad on an 060 for having DMA off on the Deneb? :shrug:

Kin
 
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