WEIRD 68060 / TF1260 issue - SOLVED

Jameson

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Hey guys, have got a bit of a weird one here if anyone can weigh in.

Purchased a new TF1260 about 12 months ago with a 680LC60 that runs 100% stable at 100mhz. The card is installed in a recapped A1200 (ID4) with an Indivision AGA and a Subway USB card. OS 3.2.1 ROMs installed running latest patch of 3.2.2.1 (I believe).

System has always been 100% stable and reliable. HOWEVER, I recently purchased a full 68060 Rev 6. So I removed the TF1260 and swapped out the CPU. After reinstalling I found that no matter what I do the system will boot from power on around two out of three times. The other one in three times the system will either hard crash, or guru. There seems to be no pattern. When the system does boot it is rock solid stable at 50mhz, 66mhz and 100mhz for hours on end.

I have tried removing the 68060, carefully cleaning the pins and socket with contact cleaner. Cleaning both the A1200 expansion card edge and the TF1260 connector but this made zero difference.

I have tried three different brand new heavy duty PSU's - zero difference.

I am wondering if it could be either a weird timing issue that only appears with a full 68k with FPU? Or perhaps the full 68k draws slightly more current and even though the PSU's are definitely up to the task, perhaps the traces on the motherboard cannot reliably deliver the current to the TF1260 with the Indivision, Subway etc all leaching off the voltage rails?

Whenever it fails to boot (roughly one in three times I power on), I simply power down and power back up and it boots, so I guess it is not the end of the world..... but it is both weird and slightly annoying. :(

Any suggestions?
 

nickrb

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I had a similar issue when using the alpha firmware with a TF1260 card. I updated it to the 68090 firmware (you can find it on Exxos, it is from May 2023) and now it boots fine every time.
 

miggymad

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Have you tried a fresh install of OS3.2 to see if the problem persists?

Is your TF1260 pushed on as far as it will go? Perhaps try backing it off by a couple of millimetres. There has been reported problems like yours in the past which seem to be cured by trying this.
 
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nickrb

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Thanks for t he link, but unfortunately there is nothing in there that describes my issue. :(
I think he just meant there is a link to the 68090 firmware there, as well as help on updating it. Again, updating to that firmware solved a similar issue for me.
 

Jameson

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I think he just meant there is a link to the 68090 firmware there, as well as help on updating it. Again, updating to that firmware solved a similar issue for me.
Ah, I see. I am on Alpha (1000) firmware, so I will try and flash the newer firmware this afternoon and see if that changes anything. Strange that the problem is only present on a FULL 68060, and no the LC. Very weird. I guess it might be a timing/bus latency issue caused by the FPU unit? Is that possible?

So, to be clear, you had a similar problem with your system failing to boot sometimes that was rectified with the new firmware?
 

Jameson

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Can anyone suggest a good guide for the easiest way to flash the firmware of the TF1260? It has been a year or so since I flashed the last update (alpha) and I honestly cannot remember how to do it! ;)
 

Jameson

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Have you tried a fresh install of OS3.2 to see if the problem persists?

Is your TF1260 pushed on as far as it will go? Perhaps try backing it off by a couple of millimetres. There has been reported problems like yours in the past which seem to be cured by trying this.
It can't be my 3.2 install since if I put the LC060 back in the problem disappears. I have tried pushing the card in dozens of slightly different positions from "all the way home" and that seems to not make any difference either. The TF1260 has run 100% stable at 100mhz for over a year and the two out of three times it boots, it runs 100% stable for hours at 100mhz, so I don't think it is the card.
 

miggymad

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Does your 3.2 install have the MMU software installed as well? Could it be clashing with the on-chip MMU?

Another thing to try is to disconnect all the extra hardware (indy, subway usb etc) then reconnect them one at a time, testing as you go. Perhaps something is causing a hardware conflict or maybe even a voltage drop.

Could it be a dodgy capacitor not being charged quickly enough at the time of switching the Amiga on?
 
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neocdtv

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I had a similar problem and after additionally connecting power over the floppy connector I got it really stable.
My FW is also Alpha 1000.
 

nickrb

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Ah, I see. I am on Alpha (1000) firmware, so I will try and flash the newer firmware this afternoon and see if that changes anything. Strange that the problem is only present on a FULL 68060, and no the LC. Very weird. I guess it might be a timing/bus latency issue caused by the FPU unit? Is that possible?

So, to be clear, you had a similar problem with your system failing to boot sometimes that was rectified with the new firmware?
Yes. Exact same problem. Here is the firmware guide I use:
 

Jameson

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Does your 3.2 install have the MMU software installed as well? Could it be clashing with the on-chip MMU?

Another thing to try is to disconnect all the extra hardware (indy, subway usb etc) then reconnect them one at a time, testing as you go. Perhaps something is causing a hardware conflict or maybe even a voltage drop.

Could it be a dodgy capacitor not being charged quickly enough at the time of switching the Amiga on?
....but my OS install has not changed at all for the past year, so how would any part of the 3.2 install suddenly be an issue if nothing has changed? This is not a new install, it is the same installation I have had working 100% fine for the past year+, the only difference is the 688060 CPU I just changed (replaced an LC unit with a full 68060).

This is why I thought it might be a power issue - the full 68060 might draw slightly more power due to the FPU?
 

Jameson

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UPDATE: Home now. Flashed the latest 68090 firmware to the TF1260 (had trouble flashing it using the external 3.3v header pin, but flashed fine when powered by the A1200).

Problem solved! Have shut down and powered on a dozen or more times and it booted every time without fail. So I guess it was the firmware.... which makes it even MORE weird. :) Thanks to everyone who helped, especially nickrb.

I wonder why the LC CPU worked 100% on the old firmware, but the full 68060 introduced reliability issues on booting. Timing issue? Bus contention? Is the full 68060 really that different to the LC part?

I am quite keen to know why.
 

nickrb

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UPDATE: Home now. Flashed the latest 68090 firmware to the TF1260 (had trouble flashing it using the external 3.3v header pin, but flashed fine when powered by the A1200).

Problem solved! Have shut down and powered on a dozen or more times and it booted every time without fail. So I guess it was the firmware.... which makes it even MORE weird. :) Thanks to everyone who helped, especially nickrb.

I wonder why the LC CPU worked 100% on the old firmware, but the full 68060 introduced reliability issues on booting. Timing issue? Bus contention? Is the full 68060 really that different to the LC part?

I am quite keen to know why.
Who built your card, out of curiosity? I have several TF1260 cards and only had this issue with one card. It seems to be a card specific issue, not Amiga specific issue.
 

neocdtv

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UPDATE: Home now. Flashed the latest 68090 firmware to the TF1260 (had trouble flashing it using the external 3.3v header pin, but flashed fine when powered by the A1200).

Problem solved! Have shut down and powered on a dozen or more times and it booted every time without fail. So I guess it was the firmware.... which makes it even MORE weird. :) Thanks to everyone who helped, especially nickrb.

I wonder why the LC CPU worked 100% on the old firmware, but the full 68060 introduced reliability issues on booting. Timing issue? Bus contention? Is the full 68060 really that different to the LC part?

I am quite keen to know why.
I have a similar problem in the other direction, Rev. 6 is running great up to 100Mhz with Alpha 1000. But a LC runs only with 50Mhz. The LC was verified on a Apollo 1260 to run with up to 90Mhz.
 

Watson

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Jameson

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Who built your card, out of curiosity? I have several TF1260 cards and only had this issue with one card. It seems to be a card specific issue, not Amiga specific issue.
Amigastore.eu manufactured the TF1260.
 
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