what is going on?

Alcatan

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Ok, I have a bit of a query, or rant, dunno which it really fits (can a mod move it if I've posted in the wrong section).
I’m after a couple of games, they are old and I would say an acquired taste. But recently I have been quite shocked as to the prices being charged for these, especially the prices being put-up on the evil-bay.

So I decided to look over to the evil-bay to have a look at prices for a few games I already own, and I am dumb struck. Is there a bunch of people or corporations out there who are price driving on amiga games or what?

Now, I have a fairly respectable collection of games, they are ones I generally have an affinity for, no matter how old they become I will always be able to play them, ie “Eye of the Beholder”, “Agony” etc etc. and I never usually part with them either.

But for the life of me, I cannot believe what some of the games are going for! I mean the following 4 games I own and have done for many years: Brutal Sports Football, Walker, SOB3, Universe. These four games are all "Buy it now" for £££s!

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to devalue my collection or under state it’s value, but this seems an overly excessive price for any of these titles, yes they are good games but, without looking at the evil-bay, I would not have ever dreamt anyone would be charging that much!

Having scanned through further, I found a number of games (which I had recently considered getting rid of, as they are not games I really had much affinity for) which are going for £££'s! When I look at them I would not have said they were worth more than a few quid. And it seems that games are selling at these prices.

Has the world gone Mad or has there been a sudden gold rush on amiga games? (or have a I really been out of the loop so long that I just hadn’t noticed the price rises)

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

Sorry posted in wrong place, can you move to Ami-rants:)
 
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Zetr0

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Hiyas m8y,

I had to minorly edit your post as it could be construded as price guiding/driving - which is against site rules. Now I know you didn't mean it this way so please dont worry.

In regards to eBay I loath selling things on it, its whole ethos in a lot of ways emobides whats truly rotten at the core of society for me.

Prices on eBay only relefect what two people (in a frenzy of stupidity) are willing to pay for an item not its real worth to the community at a whole - not only that but there are so many scams and nefarious practices sanctioned by eBay (so that they get their pound of flesh) its nothing short of disgusting.

One auction system thats got a lot more sense and sensiblity to is "Vickory Based Auctions" - have a read of this, its very interesting and a more civilized method of auction.

I think one of the first parts where eBay slaps you to the face with a wet trout is when you are the first bidder on an item - it says


"you are the first bidder - we hope you win"

lies... bare faced lies....
 

Alcatan

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no prob zetro, can you move this to Amirants as I posted in the wrong section. Cheers (I'm not having the best of days)
 

SkydivinGirl

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@Alcatan

I found that most people who attempt to sell games on evil-bay with a high BIN usually don't sell them and end up re-listing them in the hopes that someone will buy them. If you look at the sellers of these types of items, it usually ends up being a handful of sellers with thousands of feedback that are doing this.

I have some saved searches where I filter out certain sellers who always have outrageous BINs because it irritates me to see the excessive amounts of money these people want. Sellers who have thousands of feedback generally do this for a living and buy this stuff in lots and probably don't spend much on it. It costs them nothing to list the auction and there's always a chance someone will actually pay what they ask. If they just sell one out of a hundred then they have probably made back their money.

The easiest thing to do is ignore the sellers that practice these tactics. You'll have smaller search results but you won't get nearly as worked up over the prices. :)

Heather
 

Harrison

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This is right on the edge of price driving discussions (as Zetr0 has said), so I urge any members replying to remember this and keep actual prices from this thread.

Now to the topic..

Amibay existing for exactly the reason you have discovered. To stop the over inflated prices of retro items for profit alone, and instead to give retro enthusiasts a place where they can all come together and exchange items for a fair and reasonable price that doesn't have profit as its main reason for sale.

Ebay sellers are trying to cash in on the memories of people who sold their retro items years ago, and now have the retro bug and want to relive the games and hardware. Many don't follow the retro scene so only know ebay as the source to find these items again. Just look at the sellers trying to sell A500's and STFM's for 3 figure numbers.

Most of the games you have been seeing for inflated prices on ebay are not worth that much in the real world, but when a buyer is looking for a specific title and cannot find another copy then they will inevitably buy it at the price or go without. Or the danger of a bidding war, pushing the price up due to limited availability, and demand, will occur. This is seen by many in the industry as setting a new benchmark for the value of an item, but on Amibay we don't allow auctions for exactly that reason. So prices cannot be artificially inflated by such bidding wars and sales prices are dictated by the seller, and the amount the first buyer to show interest is prepared to pay. It's a much fairer system for all.

It is also true that as time goes on the age of retro hardware and software continues to get older, and good condition items become harder to find, and therefore rarer. Prices will inevitably start to rise for items in demand. For Amiga/ST games I've personally not seen that in general yet except for a handful of games that were rare even back in the day. Otherwise, this is just ebay sellers exploiting the market and the community and trying to cash in on its limited market size.
 

keropi

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it is the same on old DOS pc games that I collect my friend... I have payed for SSI rpg's the double-triple price they had when released... I guess that if someone wants original and complete 20+ years old software must pay the price :LOL:
The toughest ones to get are games that had "gifts" inside them, like the runes/maps/coins the Ultima games used to have...
 

Harrison

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Those special edition game releases are definitely sort after, and RPGs especially. PSOne/PSX RPGs are some of the most sort after and many that I own now fetch higher than their original RRP. I wouldn't part with them as I went to a lot of trouble to collect them, but it goes to show the demand is still there.

Regarding a comment by Heather. It is very true that most of the BIN sales on ebay never sell and just keep getting relisted in the hope they will one day catch an unsuspecting buyer. I also watch some of these just to see what happens and if they will really sell. Makes me mad too. Hardware is just as bad. Seeing a popular Amiga GPU sell for a 4 figure price was quite mind boggling.
 

Alcatan

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Some very valid points there, thanks, I stopped using the other "bay" almost a year ago, but prices were high then. I looked at ZetrO's vickery auction and that seems a very fair and sensible auction.

But I'm the kind to go without rather than pay over the odds.
 

AndyLandy

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Of course, one of my most-hated things are 'traders' -- the people who realise that something is uncommon and have enough buying power to snipe everything that's at a reasonable price, then relist at a much higher price. It'd be easy to pick up all of the £5/£10 copies of Game X on eBay for a couple of months, then relist 'em at £100. People like that need taken out and shot. :)

The Vickrey auction is quite a neat idea, but I've no idea how well it works in the real world. Interestingly enough, I actually wrote a web-based Vickrey auction engine for my e-Commerce module of my Masters degree.
 

Bootay

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What I hate about Ebay is that it has ruined my hobby for collecting games/consoles/computers. They drive the prices so high and flea markets, garage sales and gaming stores have taken notice and have followed suit. There have been several cases where I go into one of these places and see all these high prices and when I question them on it their response is always "They go for that on Ebay all day long." Ok, well you are not Ebay and people generally go to Flea Markets and Garage Sales for items at low prices, not premium prices. It's all BS.

I also hate when people justify the inflated price by stating that the item is RARE. You know, I understand that you don't just find Atari Jaguar's or Amiga 1200s at every flea market, garage sale, or gaming store in the US, but I would have to say that they are common enough on Ebay to not be considered RARE. (And I have seen several auctions on Ebay stating these items as RARE as well even though I see them being sold there daily)

And one last complaint. The charges. I understand that they need to make money to stay in business but I listed an item for $10 Buy It Now once and no one bought it and I had to pay $1.50 to list it. So I relisted the item for an additional $1.50 and no one bought it again. Relisted it one more time and someone finally bought it but by that point I had already paid Ebay $4.50 in fees. Why can't they just do a one time listing fee? That was the first and last time I sold on Ebay. It's not worth it unless you are selling an item that is guaranteed to sell the first time or an item priced at hundreds of dollars. Who knows, maybe I messed up and there is a way to relist without the additional fees. Either way I felt ripped off.
 

Nathanieltolbert

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That is one of the reasons I stopped using e-bay. Sometimes you get lucky and get something for a good price, but most of the time you are horribly ripped off by the thieves that populate that site. I know with a lot of the items Ed has sold on here, we could have auctioned them for stupid prices on evil bay, but he wanted the items to go to the people whom still use them. So imagine our surprise when the person or people who had bought the most from us was turning around and selling them for a profit on E-bay! And they continue to try to contact me. I refuse to talk to them and I hope that if I ignore them long enough they will leave me alone.
 

Harrison

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Ebay listing prices are another thing that we all hate on here. Again, another reason Amibay was created. No fees at all. Obviously as a site grows they have to cover their running costs, and for a company as large as ebay, their employees wages, running costs etc... but ebay have just become greedy in the last few years. I also hate the percentage they take from your sales, but I suppose if you look at it compared to a real auction house their fees are low, as in a real auction you would lose 10%+ of the final sale price to the auction house.

At the end of the day, as buyers, refusing to buy items at inflated prices will bring them back down when the sellers cannot sell them. Well, that is the hope anyway. In reality an unsuspecting buyer is always just around the corner.
 

Brian

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Most of my experience with eBay as a seller is poor: we just sold 2 computer items. One of them, the buyer didn't read the 3 separate places where we mention PayPal only and is now trying to leave negative feedback because we won't take a check. On the other hand, another buyer made an offer, we accepted, and then she announced she'd already purchased somewhere else so we could just put it back in the listings. It's a real pain to fight on a small item, so I'm now looking for other venues for the items that we want to sell. AmiBay is in luck because I'm planning to recycle some items that we'd originally intended to sell.

As a buyer, I've seen the problems others here are talking about with retro equipment pricing being through the roof. I'm glad there are other resources such as AmiBay to source these items from. I appreciate the folks like Nathaniel and Ed that have some full systems available and are selling them for affordable prices.

Just my two cents (pence?).
 

AmiNeo

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Ebay prices reflect: What seller thinks its worth, Fees, trying to save on postage and then looking at what similar items are going for and getting a stupid over inflated sense of value because you dont see the reason why things are so high priced...

The reasons? well, take the same item to a regular market, and the price would probably half, why? No price driving, no insertion fees, no listing fees, no final value fees, no postage (or stupid postage atleast if you're buying remotely from a non trader), no over inflated sense of value because most things are not seen as a 'collectors display item' outside of ebay.

So bare in mind, a lot of what you'd pay on ebay doesnt go to the seller. It goes to a money grubbing corporate that charge large sums for using their webspace to advertise your items. Its a poor reference for item values, infact you could easily buy something from there, relist it and sell it again for what you bought it for and end up at a 30% loss or more.

This is why it is known as the EVIL BAY... :mad: lol
 

Station240

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I've bought some stuff off ebay Australia, and sold it on ebay UK for a profit. No one is OZ is much into this sort of stuff, so I bought what I knew would go unsold and end up in the tip, sold it to the part of the world where it is worth something.

Outwitted paypal by leaving the money in there, and spending it on items I planned to buy anyway.

There are basically two approaches to selling something, sell it for a reasonable price, or be a :censored: and set a BIN of something loony.

Also of annoyance are those who set the starting price to what the final auction price of an earlier item was. Come on guys, where is your sense of adventure.

I think a suitable punishment for these BIN (Buy It Never !) sellers would be to set all their items as 3 day auctions with 0.99 starting price.

Its sad when good pieces of software or hardware go unsold for in some cases years.
 

AndyLandy

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Also of annoyance are those who set the starting price to what the final auction price of an earlier item was. Come on guys, where is your sense of adventure.

I think a suitable punishment for these BIN (Buy It Never !) sellers would be to set all their items as 3 day auctions with 0.99 starting price.

Actually, they're shooting themselves in the foot doing that. When I used to eBay stuff, I'd always list with a 99p start and no reserve. Even when the item is worth many hundreds of pounds. I'd consistently make about 10% more than anyone else selling the same item.

I just did it on the basis of "It'll go for a fair amount this way", but there's a psychological element there, too. You get lots of watchers and lowball bidders looking for a bargain in the early stages, but as the auction progresses and the real players get involved and the price starts climbing to more-realistic levels. The thing is, some of these lowballers have already decided in their minds that this is 'their item' now and don't like being outbid. You end up with a bidding war on your hands and walk away with a tidy profit.

Oh, and the other trick I learned to getting the most profit out of an eBay auction: Accurate descriptions with good spelling, punctuation and grammar! It's amazing what a difference a well-presented listing makes to your bottom line.
 

Harrison

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Oh, and the other trick I learned to getting the most profit out of an eBay auction: Accurate descriptions with good spelling, punctuation and grammar! It's amazing what a difference a well-presented listing makes to your bottom line.

That is the most important think I've learnt over the years. By taking some time to provide as much information about an item as possible, as well as a good selection of images works wonders. In a couple of my most recent auctions I included a BIN, as well as a lower starting price, and both items sold within an hour of creating the auctions, using BIN. Amazing.

In comparison you see a lot of auctions for potentially good stuff go unsold because the seller just stuck the auction up with an out of focus mobile phone image and a one sentence description that says nothing about the item.
 

fitzsteve

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In comparison you see a lot of auctions for potentially good stuff go unsold because the seller just stuck the auction up with an out of focus mobile phone image and a one sentence description that says nothing about the item.

I like these guys, its where I get my best bargains ;)
 

Harrison

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You can sometimes get lucky with them, it is true. Last year I bagged an Atari STE for a very good price. The description hadn't said much other than it was boxed and in good condition. When it arrived it was in its original box with all internal polys and the box was in great condition. And on opening it up I found all of the manuals and support material, the Turbo software pack still boxed up with all games and manuals inside, and the STE itself was in perfect condition. Firing it up I discovered it had already been upgraded to 4MB. I was very happy as 4MB STE were seen fetching 4x what I paid at the time. ;)
 

Merlin

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Well, it's brilliant that an AmiRant has turned into a validation as to why we set Amibay up in the first place and the shared vision that we still hold close as our Prime Directive.

It puts Amibay into a clear perspective, it qualifies exactly why we don't allow price driving and (most of all) makes up for all of the :censored: that we have to deal with at times.

Thanks all, and let's keep it clean on the price comments.... and also be careful on the tutorials as to how to exploit a certain auction site *cough*, we are giving away secrets....:shhh:

:grouphug:
 
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