Zorrocard inserted upside-down in zorroslot

drbrain

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I've got a Repulse soundcard that has been inserted upside-down in the zorroslot and then powered on. (This was not done by me but the previous owner) The pics below is to show what I mean.. the computer was not powered on with the card inside.

It was inserted in this way... (WRONG, DON'T DO THIS)
repulse_wrong.jpg


And it should have been inserted this way.. (CORRECT WAY)
repulse_correct.jpg


I don't know what would/has happened to the card.. The only visable thing I can see are two SMD-resistors that has been fried...
If I'm thinking right it should be like I wrote on the pic. Zorro-pinout http://pinouts.ru/Slots/Zorro_pinout.shtml
repulse.jpg



Is the card totally busted or may it be enough to replace the two SMD resistors?
I haven't dared to test the card in any computer.
Is it safe to test the card or is there a possibility that the computer might go 'kaa-boom' if the zorrocard is indeed broken. Would be very bad if my newly repaired A4k motherboard to go bad again.

As some pads on the zorroconnector on the card is missing (as seen here http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/repulse,2), +5V on Pin5 and Pin6 and -5V on Pin8 was not connected to anything when the card was put in the wrong way.

Any thoughts? Should I just throw the card away or is there a chance the card might still be functional?
 
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Justin

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don't throw it!! if you decide to bin it, give it to me and i'll risk chucking it in an A4K:D


I've got a Repulse soundcard that has been inserted upside-down in the zorroslot and then powered on. (This was not done by me but the previous owner) The pics below is to show what I mean.. the computer was not powered on with the card inside.

It was inserted in this way... (WRONG, DON'T DO THIS)
repulse_wrong.jpg


And it should have been inserted this way.. (CORRECT WAY)
repulse_correct.jpg


I don't know what would/has happened to the card.. The only visable thing I can see are two SMD-resistors that has been fried...
If I'm thinking right it should be like I wrote on the pic. Zorro-pinout http://pinouts.ru/Slots/Zorro_pinout.shtml
repulse.jpg



Is the card totally busted or may it be enough to replace the two SMD resistors?
I haven't dared to test the card in any computer.
Is it safe to test the card or is there a possibility that the computer might go 'kaa-boom' if the zorrocard is indeed broken. Would be very bad if my newly repaired A4k motherboard to go bad again.

As some pads on the zorroconnector on the card is missing (as seen here http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/repulse,2), +5V on Pin5 and Pin6 and -5V on Pin8 was not connected to anything when the card was put in the wrong way.

Any thoughts? Should I just throw the card away or is there a chance the card might still be functional?
 

AndyLandy

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I'd be tempted to test it, but not in a newly-repaired shiny A4000. Personally, I'd probably try it in an A2000 or an A500 with a Zorro adapter. Not only are those machines often cheaper, they're also a lot easier to repair if you do zap something. :)
 

Kin Hell

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Just a word of advice for all Amiga ZORRO users;

Chips up on ZORRO chaps. (y)

Down on PCI unless you have a BTX case. ;)

Kin
 

Merlin

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EEEK!!! :wooha:

There also seems to have been one or two tracks vapourised between R6 and D3 (inside the red circle on your photos). If they haven't gone completely, they are certainly discoloured. One of the pads on R1 appears to have gone South as well, although it is hard to tell from the angle.

Are any parts on the opposite side of the board discoloured or showing signs of damage, as there are a couple of vias nearby that also looks as though they got hot (just above R6 and above and to the left of R1).

Have you a decent reference photo of that area of the card to compare yours with, from somewhere such as the Big Book of Amiga Hardware?
 

drbrain

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I'd be tempted to test it, but not in a newly-repaired shiny A4000. Personally, I'd probably try it in an A2000 or an A500 with a Zorro adapter. Not only are those machines often cheaper, they're also a lot easier to repair if you do zap something. :)

Yeah.. I'm very tempted to test the card... but not in my A4000. ;)
Sadly I don't have another Zorro-capable machine to test it in. Only an A1200.
Maybe I should try to dig up an old A500 and get a Zorro adapter, if it doesn't go kaa-boom I guess it would be safe to test in the A4k then... :unsure:

---------- Post added at 13:37 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------

EEEK!!! :wooha:

There also seems to have been one or two tracks vapourised between R6 and D3 (inside the red circle on your photos). If they haven't gone completely, they are certainly discoloured. One of the pads on R1 appears to have gone South as well, although it is hard to tell from the angle.

Are any parts on the opposite side of the board discoloured or showing signs of damage, as there are a couple of vias nearby that also looks as though they got hot (just above R6 and above and to the left of R1).

Have you a decent reference photo of that area of the card to compare yours with, from somewhere such as the Big Book of Amiga Hardware?

The only highres pics I have is from amiga.resource.cx
Front: http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo2.pl?id=repulse&pg=2&res=hi&lang=en
Back: http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo2.pl?id=repulse&pg=3&res=hi&lang=en

The are no parts on the oppsite side and all the tracks looks fine on that side. The only thing I can see is that the laquer on one of the tracks (about 1mm in length) on the bottom side is damaged (near the connector to the flat-cable). But it looks more like a scratch than a burnt track.

And on the front-side the only thing I can see that's looks damaged is that in the red circle... two resistors.And some tracks but they seem to be intact when measuring with a multimeter.
 

Zetr0

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Review

Review

just to clarify whats happened, I labled these out

The card was inserted back-to-front as such we need to know what voltages whent where, signal lines dont carry that much in ampage as such the real concern is the true +5, -5 and -12volts

Top of Card
top-plate.jpg


As we can see, on this plate, a little luck has come our way, the track that would of connected to the +5v is not there.

Bottom of Card
btm-plate.jpg


Alas this plate is a different story, this card has been hit with both a -12volt as well as a +5v both seems to of been stopped by the resistors, however even after replacing these it might be a little tricky to be honest.

the +5volt line dissapears under the Spartan chip, as such this could be a problem. the -12volts on the other hand looks tied to somthing and I cannot be sure if it continue onto the circuit.

I would suggest that replacing the resistors is the first part, all thought the tracks look good it could mean that somthing else sucked up all the voltage.

I am surprised this orientation crisis didn't fubar that A4000 mobo.
 

AndyLandy

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And here is the single shining reason why manufacturers should MAKE THEIR DAMN CARDS FILL THE SLOT PROPERLY and have a plate on the end. Spend that extra 5p on a bit of plastic and metal so the card can't be inserted incorrectly!
 

Merlin

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@ Zetr0

I could be wrong about this as I'm trying to think in 3D, following the vias based on those photos, but it looks like diode D3 blocked the -12v and it went straight to a ground plane on the other side, totalling the resistors as it went through.

Can you take a look and see if my reasoning holds up?
 

Merlin

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And here is the single shining reason why manufacturers should MAKE THEIR DAMN CARDS FILL THE SLOT PROPERLY and have a plate on the end. Spend that extra 5p on a bit of plastic and metal so the card can't be inserted incorrectly!

Even AGP cards can be made to fit the other incompatible voltage slots, if you hammer them enough......:LOL:
 

Zetr0

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@Merly

The +5v comes in onto the resistor R1 (from the other side) and is sent to ground? its a little difficult to see, buzzing this out would make sure

The -12v is also fed from the otherside of the card and is connected to resistor [R6] this is then possibly fed to the Diode [D3] which is then fed to ground.

I had to super zoom the area 300% to get any defninitive answer.

zoom.jpg


I would say that both resistors [R1 and R6] are trashed and the diode [D3] will need replacing as well.

To be honest this card might be quite repairable


[Additional]
A point to mention is that the -12v could surpass the resistor and it would back up to the Spartan - but to confirm this - the images are not enough I would use a multimeter and some time =)
 

drbrain

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Thanks for trying to help me... :bowdown:

According to the pinout -12V and +12V has been sent into the card.
Pin10 is +12V and not +5V... http://pinouts.ru/Slots/Zorro_pinout.shtml

I've taken some better pics today... they're kinda big 3000x2300+ ~1MB
The card is a bit dusty... looks bad when taking close-up pics :roll:
Damaged resistors area: http://drbrain.mine.nu/temp/a4000/repulse_highres.jpg
Highres top part I: http://drbrain.mine.nu/temp/a4000/repulse_top_highres_partI.jpg
Highres top part II: http://drbrain.mine.nu/temp/a4000/repulse_top_highres_partII.jpg

And the back of the card... I've made a red circle to show the damaged parts. Looks like scratches to me rather than burnt tracks.
Highres back part I: http://drbrain.mine.nu/temp/a4000/repulse_back_highres_partI.jpg
Highres back part II: http://drbrain.mine.nu/temp/a4000/repulse_back_highres_partII.jpg
 

Merlin

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Definitely looks like both of those 470 Ohm resistors have popped, looking at the craters in them. I would start by replacing those first.

Edit: Incorrectly stated 470K originally.
 
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drbrain

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Are they 47 ohm, 470 ohm, 4700 ohm, 47000 ohm or 470000 ohm ?? :blink:

If I'm interpreting this correct, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor#SMD_resistors , they are 47ohm.

And what about the package size? They are about 2mm x 1mm. According to this list, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology#Package_sizes , that probably means "0805"-package

So if all this is right these would be fine? http://cgi.ebay.com/Pack-50-pcs-080...-R0805-47-/220550716036?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

And what's the spec for the diode D3 ?
 

Merlin

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You are right; they are 470 Ohm resistors, my bad....:oops:

The link to somewhere else selling them *cough* appears to be the right ones.

The diode D3 is marked 'B4Z' which may indicate that it's a Zener type. Maybe Zetr0 or another guru more versed in SMD devices than I can shed some light on it.
 

Zetr0

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I have had a search and I cannot seem to lock this component down

"B4Z" SMD Diode

I have managed to narrow down the package type to either

1. PowerDI 123 / 323 / SOD-323F series
2. SOD-123 / 323 / 523* series

Although with SMD this could just be about any kind of Diode.

I shall get anther look in - in the morning =)
 

drbrain

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You are right; they are 470 Ohm resistors, my bad....:oops:

The link to somewhere else selling them *cough* appears to be the right ones.

The diode D3 is marked 'B4Z' which may indicate that it's a Zener type. Maybe Zetr0 or another guru more versed in SMD devices than I can shed some light on it.

Are you sure they are 470 ohm and not 47 ohm?

470 would mean 47 and 0 zeros :unsure:

471 would be 47 plus one zero... = 470 ohm :huh:

I found this explanation
smd.jpeg
 

Zetr0

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LOL I think Merly just got carried away with the O's (oh's) and 0's (Zeros)

SMD 805: 470 is 47ohm =)
 

rkauer

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Funny thing is: if the resistor is 47Ohm, then how it get vaporized?

Ohm law says:

P = U . I

Where

P power (or dissipation power, in this case), in Watt

U voltage, in Volt

I current Intensity, in Ampere


Also, current is given by the formula

I = U : Z

I & U: same as above

Z = impedance, in Ohm (notice that Z can be replaced by "R" in DC circuits)


So, we have -12 to 5V (worst case scenario) = 17V

Where

I = U:R

I = 17 / 47

I = 0.362A (362mA)

then

P = U.I

P=17x0.362

P=~6.1W

So is possible to vaporize instantly a 0805 (0.1W dissipation) resistor with just six Watts?:blink:
 
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