Amiga 1200 with Apollo 1260 shaky

[phiwer]

I cleaned the connector with isopropanol as well.

 

[phiwer]

I am considering removing these while I am at it.

 

[miggymad]

Can't see any problems with voltages....All are within normal tolerances.

You beat me to it lol

Definitely remove E123C and E125C.

Is your mainboard a Rev. 2B by any chance?

 

[phiwer]

1D4 It seems.

 

[miggymad]

FWIW 1D4's are not known for problems such as what you are experiencing. Personally I have always considered them to be the most stable of revisions C= produced.

Perhaps the timing fix will be the resolution here. It is a highly recommended procedure and has been known to solve a lot of problems.

 

[phiwer]

I’ll remove those two tomorrow as it’s getting late here.

Super thanks for all the help so far. I’ll report in this thread when I’m done.

 

[phiwer]

I've been trying to find other people with similar issues and came across this thread:

Fixing Timing on 1D4 Motherboard for Apollo 1260 - English Amiga Board

Fixing Timing on 1D4 Motherboard for Apollo 1260 support.Hardware

eab.abime.net

As the card has worked nicely before, I am suspecting that something has deteriorated while the miggy has been sitting on the shelf. I will try to clean the ram connector with a toothbrush and isopropanol today, before removing the capacitors.

 

[miggymad]

When troubleshooting problems with computers such as the Amiga is that there is no 'one-fits-all' solution. it's a case of checking everything from the power supply right down to a dirty edge connector.

Although time consuming, it can be immensely satisfying when you begin zeroing in on the root cause and fixing it. Sometimes it can be a really simple fix to solve things, hopefully this is one of those times.

 

[phiwer]

Still not working. I’ll wait till I get new memory (FPM) that I ordered. I also have a new PSU incoming. I will update this thread when I have tested with my new parts.

 

[miggymad]

Might also be prudent to run a copy of the Amiga TestKit software and see if it reports any anomalies.

 

[phiwer]

After some consultation, I have decided to go with a TF1260. I’ll move the 060 from the Apollo to the TF1260.

 

[Jameson]

Wow, this thread is a bit of a coincidence - I am currently rehousing several of my A1200's into new A1200net Cases with A1200net keycaps, and the one I am working on at the moment is running an Apollo 1260 overclocked to 80mhz.... and as most Apollo owners can attest to, it is a finnicky beast.

The only help I can suggest that has worked for me is VERY thoroughly cleaning both the edge connector and SIMM socket with contact cleaner and a soft toothbrush. For some reason the Apollo boards seem to have "looser" connections and any movement, oxidisation etc results in a previously rock solid system suddenly being as stable a a one legged table being ridden on by a 400 pound circus clown on a unicycle with a flat tyre!

I am sure this would have been your first port of call, but thought I would mention it just in case....

 

[Jameson]

After some consultation, I have decided to go with a TF1260. I’ll move the 060 from the Apollo to the TF1260.

Yep, the TF1260 is a fantastic card - both of mine clock perfectly stable at 100mhz - and a LOT easier to get along with than the Apollo cards....

 

[phiwer]

Wow, this thread is a bit of a coincidence - I am currently rehousing several of my A1200's into new A1200net Cases with A1200net keycaps, and the one I am working on at the moment is running an Apollo 1260 overclocked to 80mhz.... and as most Apollo owners can attest to, it is a finnicky beast.

The only help I can suggest that has worked for me is VERY thoroughly cleaning both the edge connector and SIMM socket with contact cleaner and a soft toothbrush. For some reason the Apollo boards seem to have "looser" connections and any movement, oxidisation etc results in a previously rock solid system suddenly being as stable a a one legged table being ridden on by a 400 pound circus clown on a unicycle with a flat tyre!

I am sure this would have been your first port of call, but thought I would mention it just in case....

Perfect description of how it feels like.

But I also think you are correct. I pull my amiga to and from a bookshelf every now and then. There isn't a lot going on in terms of movement, but enough to make me go nuts every time.

I am buying myself peace of mind by moving it to a tf1260 is how I am thinking. There are probably issues to resolve with those cards as well, but hopefully not as severe as the problems I've had with my Apollo card.

 

[Jameson]

Trust me - the F1260 will give you a LOT less issues than the Apollo. Make sure it comes flashed with the latest firmware which improves the ChipRAM access speeds and gives you more access to overclocking, if you can live without the FPU get a 75mhz LC variant as they run cooler, are much more likely to run happily at 100mhz and cost one fifth of the price of a full 060 (and still has the MMU which is arguably more useful than the FPU), get the CPU Speed util and overclock and never look back.

 

[Dano]

I had a memory issue with a Apollo 1260 a few years back. I end up using AddMem in the startup sequence to get around the issue. Just had a quick look at some old notes, this was the line I used before SetPatch " AddMem START 1000000 TO 2000000".
It was probably a issue with the onboard ROM on the Apollo, but I never bothered investigating any further as AddMem solved the problem. AddMem with usage notes is on Aminet.

 

[phiwer]

I had a memory issue with a Apollo 1260 a few years back. I end up using AddMem in the startup sequence to get around the issue. Just had a quick look at some old notes, this was the line I used before SetPatch " AddMem START 1000000 TO 2000000".
It was probably a issue with the onboard ROM on the Apollo, but I never bothered investigating any further as AddMem solved the problem. AddMem with usage notes is on Aminet.

Thanks for the suggestion. I had difficulty booting the system in the end, so I decided to go with the TF1260.

 

[phiwer]

I just wanted to post my findings in this thread (I hate to leave threads hanging without a resolution).

I got my TF1260 on Friday and I immediately put it in the Amiga 1200 expecting fantastic results. To my surprise it did not work either. I was a bit down during the evening but quickly got energy back on Saturday. So I've been spent all yesterday investigating this issue, and I have come to an interesting finding, but I need your help in determining what is causing this issue.

Before doing any of the steps below I took out the motherboard and placed it on a ESD mat. My computer has the following specs: Amiga 1200, TF1260, Indivision AGA MK2, Compact Flash adapter + 4GB Sandisk, RTC board from IC.

I have two compact flash cards. The one in the Amiga (currently) has ClassicWB with Workbench 3.1 on it. The other one I have prepared with AmigaOS 3.2 using WinUAE.

My initial thought was that I hadn't cleaned the trapdoor connector well enough last time, so I started cleaning it with an eraser and then isopropanol afterwards. I then started moving the TF1260 millimeter by millimeter until the computer started booting. At this point the TF1260 was 4mm from the start of the connector pads. I thought I had solved the issue, and then decided to put my prepared AmigaOS3.2 installation to use. But to my surprise the amiga acted up really weird. I had multiple issues when trying to boot the amiga:

1. When it would start it would get to the LoadModule section. Reboot and then print guru meditation 8700 0000.
2. Most often than not it wouldn't start (back to square one). I would do hard and soft resets, and out of the blue the miggy would boot and and up in step 1.

I still didn't have a clean AmigaOS3.2 installation where I could test my configuration without the accelerator card, so the next step was to wipe the AmigaOS3.1 Compact Flash card and do that. This installation was the clean AmigaOS3.2 without any of the updates, but with the CPU libs required to get 68060 booting. This was done in WinUAE.

(The following section is a bit of a detour but figured I'd post it anyway, as it contains useful information)
I removed the accelerator card, and the amiga booted from the harddrive without me having to do soft/hard-resets. But now AmigaOS3.2 would not boot correctly (it wouldn't find certain files etc.). I at first thought it was a maxtransfer issue (or some corrupt data on the compact flash card), so I tested it in WinUAE again, and everything seemed to work OK there. After reading the FAQ of AmigaOS3.2 it struck me what was wrong. My WinUAE setup has the 3.2 ROM:s, while my Amiga1200 still has the 3.1.4 ROM:s. When I install AmigaOS3.2 in WinUAE it will use a different startup-sequence as I already have the 3.2 ROM:s. When using this installation in my real Amiga, it will crash because it makes the assumption that 3.2 ROM:s are already installed. I personally think this is a real mistake by the developers. It's an over-optimization that does not need to be there, and will perhaps cause headaches for many people in the same situation as I am in. So after changing the ROM to 3.1.4 in WinUAE, doing a re-install, I was back on track.

I then re-inserted the new installation into the Amiga, but now without the accelerator. It booted without issues.

At this point I was ready to call it a day, but I still wasn't closer to the solution I felt. My gut feeling tells me that something is wrong with the motherboard, and not the TF1260 card, as the Apollo behaved in a somewhat same manner (although RAM wasn't visible when the Amiga detected the Apollo).

I did a final google search and then stumbled upon a thread on Individual Computers by a user that has a similar issue:

Aca1221ec not booting - Individual Computers Support

aca1221ec not booting. This is NOT any bad contact problem on the card or motherboard. It always gives black screen if i start power from cold...but if i put power on and then off and on back very quikly it boots and works. So power on 2 times and it…

forum.icomp.de

The user says that quickly switching his PSU on/off manages to boot his computer. A video is also posted:



By this time, I was already in bed, but I couldn't resist trying this before sleeping. Up I went, and to my surprise it worked on the first try. This time I had pushed the TF1260 back into the Amiga all the way in (no 1, 2 or 4 mm from the start).

Why is this??

Some background on my amiga. I had it recapped, say between 5-7 years ago, and after that I always had to boot it twice to get it up and running (just like the guy in the thead says). I always thought it was my PSU that was the issue, so before getting the TF1260 I bought a new PSU from c64psu, figuring it would resolve that issue. I now realize that my amiga always starts nicely (even with the old PSU) if I don't have an accelerator board connected, but when I have an accelerator board connected I have to do many resets to get it started). Or quickly turn off/on the PSU like the guy in the thread.

I know Jens has posted some stuff related to new (and perhaps old) PSU:s not having the requirements of the Amiga system, and I am not sure if he's correct here, or if there are components in the amiga that simply need replacement to fix the issue I am having.

To me the issue seems to be timing related. By that I mean it is potentially related to a capacitor or some other circuit where time is affecting stuff. Could it be that these new capacitors cause a voltage drop on the 5V when my accelerator is connected? If I switch my PSU quickly on/off, perhaps the capacitor is not discharged quickly enough to cause this voltage drop? Or is it some other circuit that is not functioning as quickly as it should (or did in the past)?

Or perhaps someone else knows why this is happing? I am not well versed with the Amiga hardware to be able to determine the root cause, so I would really like your help on this one.

PS. Jens says (in the thead) that turning on/off the PSU quickly can have negative effects on hardware. This makes me a bit worried, but I have no other reliable way of starting my amiga at the moment. I really want to get this fixed so I don't have to do this trick to get it started.

PSS. I have removed e123c and e125c as well.

Thanks!

 

[Boing-ball]

I just wanted to post my findings in this thread (I hate to leave threads hanging without a resolution).

I got my TF1260 on Friday and I immediately put it in the Amiga 1200 expecting fantastic results. To my surprise it did not work either. I was a bit down during the evening but quickly got energy back on Saturday. So I've been spent all yesterday investigating this issue, and I have come to an interesting finding, but I need your help in determining what is causing this issue.

Before doing any of the steps below I took out the motherboard and placed it on a ESD mat. My computer has the following specs: Amiga 1200, TF1260, Indivision AGA MK2, Compact Flash adapter + 4GB Sandisk, RTC board from IC.

I have two compact flash cards. The one in the Amiga (currently) has ClassicWB with Workbench 3.1 on it. The other one I have prepared with AmigaOS 3.2 using WinUAE.

My initial thought was that I hadn't cleaned the trapdoor connector well enough last time, so I started cleaning it with an eraser and then isopropanol afterwards. I then started moving the TF1260 millimeter by millimeter until the computer started booting. At this point the TF1260 was 4mm from the start of the connector pads. I thought I had solved the issue, and then decided to put my prepared AmigaOS3.2 installation to use. But to my surprise the amiga acted up really weird. I had multiple issues when trying to boot the amiga:

1. When it would start it would get to the LoadModule section. Reboot and then print guru meditation 8700 0000.
2. Most often than not it wouldn't start (back to square one). I would do hard and soft resets, and out of the blue the miggy would boot and and up in step 1.

I still didn't have a clean AmigaOS3.2 installation where I could test my configuration without the accelerator card, so the next step was to wipe the AmigaOS3.1 Compact Flash card and do that. This installation was the clean AmigaOS3.2 without any of the updates, but with the CPU libs required to get 68060 booting. This was done in WinUAE.

(The following section is a bit of a detour but figured I'd post it anyway, as it contains useful information)
I removed the accelerator card, and the amiga booted from the harddrive without me having to do soft/hard-resets. But now AmigaOS3.2 would not boot correctly (it wouldn't find certain files etc.). I at first thought it was a maxtransfer issue (or some corrupt data on the compact flash card), so I tested it in WinUAE again, and everything seemed to work OK there. After reading the FAQ of AmigaOS3.2 it struck me what was wrong. My WinUAE setup has the 3.2 ROM:s, while my Amiga1200 still has the 3.1.4 ROM:s. When I install AmigaOS3.2 in WinUAE it will use a different startup-sequence as I already have the 3.2 ROM:s. When using this installation in my real Amiga, it will crash because it makes the assumption that 3.2 ROM:s are already installed. I personally think this is a real mistake by the developers. It's an over-optimization that does not need to be there, and will perhaps cause headaches for many people in the same situation as I am in. So after changing the ROM to 3.1.4 in WinUAE, doing a re-install, I was back on track.

I then re-inserted the new installation into the Amiga, but now without the accelerator. It booted without issues.

At this point I was ready to call it a day, but I still wasn't closer to the solution I felt. My gut feeling tells me that something is wrong with the motherboard, and not the TF1260 card, as the Apollo behaved in a somewhat same manner (although RAM wasn't visible when the Amiga detected the Apollo).

I did a final google search and then stumbled upon a thread on Individual Computers by a user that has a similar issue:

Aca1221ec not booting - Individual Computers Support

aca1221ec not booting. This is NOT any bad contact problem on the card or motherboard. It always gives black screen if i start power from cold...but if i put power on and then off and on back very quikly it boots and works. So power on 2 times and it…

forum.icomp.de

The user says that quickly switching his PSU on/off manages to boot his computer. A video is also posted:



By this time, I was already in bed, but I couldn't resist trying this before sleeping. Up I went, and to my surprise it worked on the first try. This time I had pushed the TF1260 back into the Amiga all the way in (no 1, 2 or 4 mm from the start).

Why is this??

Some background on my amiga. I had it recapped, say between 5-7 years ago, and after that I always had to boot it twice to get it up and running (just like the guy in the thead says). I always thought it was my PSU that was the issue, so before getting the TF1260 I bought a new PSU from c64psu, figuring it would resolve that issue. I now realize that my amiga always starts nicely (even with the old PSU) if I don't have an accelerator board connected, but when I have an accelerator board connected I have to do many resets to get it started). Or quickly turn off/on the PSU like the guy in the thread.

I know Jens has posted some stuff related to new (and perhaps old) PSU:s not having the requirements of the Amiga system, and I am not sure if he's correct here, or if there are components in the amiga that simply need replacement to fix the issue I am having.

To me the issue seems to be timing related. By that I mean it is potentially related to a capacitor or some other circuit where time is affecting stuff. Could it be that these new capacitors cause a voltage drop on the 5V when my accelerator is connected? If I switch my PSU quickly on/off, perhaps the capacitor is not discharged quickly enough to cause this voltage drop? Or is it some other circuit that is not functioning as quickly as it should (or did in the past)?

Or perhaps someone else knows why this is happing? I am not well versed with the Amiga hardware to be able to determine the root cause, so I would really like your help on this one.

PS. Jens says (in the thead) that turning on/off the PSU quickly can have negative effects on hardware. This makes me a bit worried, but I have no other reliable way of starting my amiga at the moment. I really want to get this fixed so I don't have to do this trick to get it started.

PSS. I have removed e123c and e125c as well.

Thanks!

Having read through your misadventures and can only say I understand where you’ve been with this. Have had many an issue with A1200’s and hardware problems, ranging from Network PCMCIA cards stopping to accelerators failing to work properly. The only solution I ever found was NOT to use the latter revision A1200 boards such as the 1D4 or 2B.
The preferred revision I use is the 1D1 board. It is sort of known that for example the 1D4 can cause issues with accelerators. Especially those that require a lot of good power to operate. Had something similar happen with a Phase 5 Blizzard 603e card. With them you had to channel a good 5V into the card extra to make them work at a stable position.
I have issues today with a Apollo 1240 card where I get Guru and flaky experiences with it. That’s even on a V1.5 Re-Amiga board (based on 1d4 with all the correct fixes applied).
Make sure you use a good quality new PSU. I tend to use the A-Power ones off Amigastore.eu (50w with 55w over power ability).

Hope this helps….

 

[r3d_h4t]

One simple test I find that helps is to check you 5v at the floppy drive connector, not at the power supply or incoming connector.

Many power supplies will have a 5v adjustment pot that you can make sure you are getting a good 5-5.1v at the floppy connector.