Are Shipping Costs killing the RETRO hobbies?

[YouKnowWho]

Well, here we are. I used to enjoy shipping from Germany to Canada of up to 20kg by Deutsche Post at a price of 60DM. Then it became 80DM, then 100DM. Then it turned into 59 Euro. Then 69 Euro. Then 79 Euro. I haven't purchased anything larger from Germany for a bit over a year, but I just did and I learned that Deutsche Post is no longer doing international parcels over 2kg. They hand it off to DHL and shipping of a parcel in the 10-20kg weight class is now 140 Euro. Just like that. OK, I was committed, so I grabbed it. And the item isn't exactly easy to find locally, so there is that too.

But I have decided against plenty of purchases due to shipping costs. There used to be USPS surface option from US, but that is no longer available, because it was half the price of AIR and surface didn't take too long. Instead of offering it, they ended it and force all to the AIR option. Don't get me started on UPS and their menu of fees, which used to make me not choose them. However, all the other courier companies have adopted these practices now to make shipping costs a surprise upon arrival of parcel. Like a hostage situtaiton, "You want this package in my hand right here? PAY UP!" And of course shipping costs are a constant issue for people here and I see interested parties walk away from a purchase on basis of shipping cost not being worth it. Volume of retro product moving around the world surely isn't growing. My other hobby of boomboxes...well, that appears pretty much on life support compared to just a few years ago.

So...is this new barrier helping to slow down the hobby?
How many times have you walked away from something you wanted to purchase due to shipping costs?
Are you willing to offer less for items as a result shipping costs?
Do you find that your geographic shopping range is shrinking to minimize shipping costs?

 

[Amiga Forever]

Well, I was sending Amiga Type CF Card and I was bit shocked on how much cost as used be £1 and gone 3 x much now.

 

[Watson]

Prices have risen that's for sure. I now try to avoid anything overseas. There's still pretty reasonable shipping costs to be had though. I use a broker to get the best prices.

FedEx are my go to when shipping large parcels to family in the states and anywhere else in the world. I just shipped a 7kg parcel for £22.95 using their Express service. And the cost is considerably a lot less than sending through the good ol' Royal Mail international services in the UK

 

[CPop]

i ordered 2 psu boosts from electroware in poland it cost me £170 on ebay with buyer protection, on day of delivery i get a £44 charge from Fed EX. i wasnt expecting a charge but apparently anything over £130 from eu to UK you have to pay a charge VAT.

 

[Boing-ball]

i ordered 2 psu boosts from electroware in poland it cost me £170 on ebay with buyer protection, on day of delivery i get a £44 charge from Fed EX. i wasnt expecting a charge but apparently anything over £130 from eu to UK you have to pay a charge VAT.

Best reading this:

Tax and customs for goods sent from abroad

VAT, duty and customs declarations for goods received by post or courier - paying, collecting your goods, getting a refund and documents.

www.gov.uk

As a rule of thumb. Anything more than the gift price bought, then you will be in a world of trouble.

 

[CPop]

Best reading this:

Tax and customs for goods sent from abroad

VAT, duty and customs declarations for goods received by post or courier - paying, collecting your goods, getting a refund and documents.

www.gov.uk

As a rule of thumb. Anything more than the gift price bought, then you will be in a world of trouble.

i know now lol. i ordered something from france the week before that and it was £50 and i didnt get a charge so it never crossed my mind lol, lucky i had the money when Fed EX asked for it.

 

[samaron]

eBay used to be my go to source for many years. I have more or less stopped using eBay after GSP got introduced due to shipping becoming unreasonable. They also started collecting VAT a few years ago, which causes another issue. GSP is expensive, slow and unreliable. Sellers rarely add the VOEC number properly to the customs/shipping document, which results in VAT being collected a second time when it enters my country. Why on earth does it cost 100 USD to ship a bare bone PS1 from USA to Europe? I can't even make it that expensive shipping from here, and the rates are expensive on my end. VAT is also 25%, and is calculated from the item cost + shipping. Paying this once isn't worth in many cases, and most of the time this is paid twice.

I also find that many web stores insist on using courier services rather than the official post service. This also often makes shipping expensive and inconvenient. Couriers love to add expensive fees for the service of calculating VAT owed, and delivery can be a headache. Most courier services don't have their own infrastructure in my country and rely on the official post service or other (unreliable) cheaper services to do the delivery. If with the official post service, it is treated as a business express delivery. Delivered straight to my door, when I'm not home. Parcels then have to be returned to the central sorting facility and sent to the post office, adding an extra week to the delivery. Other services have their own pick up points, often a kiosk or similar, which can be up to half an hour drive away. I wish web stores would just use the regular post service and all the hassle could be avoided.

The only reasonable way left is to deal with people directly, like on here. Items are often better packaged, and shipping rates are more sane.

 

[YouKnowWho]

@CPop - brutal. I'm opting out of buying an item right now, because of this very exact reason. See? It has an impact.

@samaron - GSP used to be good. Especially for US sellers, who insisted that they would not ship elsewhere, it was great. It broadened their customer reach and it broadened potential buying choices. But like everything, eBay ruined it with crazy fees. Let us remember, there was a time sellers paid 3% to sell on eBay. Now it is over 13%, and fees fees fees and they hold sellers money while they make interest on it - free loans. On and on and on it goes. They leach sellers so hard, I make it a point to avoid them whenever possible.

Also, I miss no opportunity to point out that eBay is a convicted criminal organization. Just FYI - in case you had doubts about what American Tech sector is becoming. This story went all the way to the CEO and it is insane! Read up.

eBay hit with $3M fine, admits to “terrorizing innocent people”

eBay must pay maximum fine for putting Massachusetts couple “through pure hell.”...

arstechnica.com

 

[YouKnowWho]

Update: That 140 Euro package from Germany, it landed. Some sadness about it, but let us not get into the contents and keep focus on the shipping issue discussed here. 140 Euro shipping cost for 10-20KG class shipment. Guess what DHL did? Handed the package off to the postal system back in Europe. It took a month for the package to arrive here. It was delivered not by DHL, but by Canada Post. So, Deutsche Post, who used to be the agent to ship packages this size via post for 79 Euro (20kg) Germany to Canada, and also quicker by (AIR? ...as no package ever took longer than 2 weeks) is now pretending to be DHL for parcel acceptance in Germany, charging Germans way more at 140 Euro to ship, then handing the package off back to postal service anyway, and it now goes by SURFACE!

Nearly double cost AND crappier service! What a lovely corporate improvement. I'm sure the person at DHL who thought this up got a bonus, maybe some stock options, maybe even a promotion.

To be honest, I knew this day would come. The day when the geography/reach of retro markets would shrink due to logistics costs and become the deciding factor. Note how often you see shipping stop a purchase on here or in your own purchase behaviour. I'm sure many of us are glad we bought what we bought when we bought it. On the flip side, no one escapes untouched, as selling down our collections going forward is going to get perhaps a bit more challenging as buyers factor in if the purchase is worth it due to costs.

As an aside, I'm lucky to be within driving distance of USA. I used to buy and ship there, hold for pickup. The shipping savings on an Amiga 2000 for example was more than enough for full tank of gas (1/3 needed for the round trip), lunch, and then some, easily justifying the day trip for larger items. But since I don't want to end up deported or strip searched at the boarder over an Amiga purchase, that option is off the table now as well.

 

[Aeberbach]

Canada has some nasty import duties, always has had. I paid about 25% on some vinyl albums last week. Paid about the same on a Schiit phono stage two months ago. The American tariffs and removal of de minimis exemption have not come about in isolation, but they have caused postal services around the world to halt shipments to the USA. Australia Post has resumed, only to require registration with a third party and prepayment of duties by the sender - much higher costs for everyone.

When I was sending keyboards around the world I was embarrassed to be asking $50 to send a 600 gram package to Europe but even so I was often finding it wasn't enough. I think shipping has more or less killed my willingness to spend money outside the country I happen to be in (unless it's Australia where you still have a reasonable chance of escaping duty on small items - but that won't last).

 

[ncafferkey]

eBay used to be my go to source for many years. I have more or less stopped using eBay after GSP got introduced due to shipping becoming unreasonable. They also started collecting VAT a few years ago, which causes another issue. GSP is expensive, slow and unreliable. Sellers rarely add the VOEC number properly to the customs/shipping document, which results in VAT being collected a second time when it enters my country. Why on earth does it cost 100 USD to ship a bare bone PS1 from USA to Europe? I can't even make it that expensive shipping from here, and the rates are expensive on my end. VAT is also 25%, and is calculated from the item cost + shipping. Paying this once isn't worth in many cases, and most of the time this is paid twice.

I also find that many web stores insist on using courier services rather than the official post service. This also often makes shipping expensive and inconvenient. Couriers love to add expensive fees for the service of calculating VAT owed, and delivery can be a headache. Most courier services don't have their own infrastructure in my country and rely on the official post service or other (unreliable) cheaper services to do the delivery. If with the official post service, it is treated as a business express delivery. Delivered straight to my door, when I'm not home. Parcels then have to be returned to the central sorting facility and sent to the post office, adding an extra week to the delivery. Other services have their own pick up points, often a kiosk or similar, which can be up to half an hour drive away. I wish web stores would just use the regular post service and all the hassle could be avoided.

The only reasonable way left is to deal with people directly, like on here. Items are often better packaged, and shipping rates are more sane.

I agree with eveything you wrote, but it's worth noting that eBay will refund the VAT they charged you if you provide proof that you had to pay it twice.

 

[samaron]

I have tried to get the VAT refunded, but it doesn't work in practice. Both eBay and the freight forwarder point at each other and say they're required to collect the VAT. Usually the freight forwarder does not yield (they want to keep their fee after all). On the other side, eBay does appear to be more inclined to refund, but demand the receipt (proof) written in a specific way. This is of course not how the receipt from the freight forwarder is written, and eBay respectfully decline any refunds.

Only once have I been able to get a sort of refund. In that case it was from FedEx where they credited (cancelled) their invoice after providing proof of payment from eBay. This resulted in a debt collection case a year later which caused a lot of different trouble. To some degree it would have been more worth my time to pay the double VAT than having to deal with that.

 

[YouKnowWho]

Ah, nothing like bureaucracy.
(Why do I always spell bureaucracy wrong and need correction?)

One word: GIFT! It keeps on giving. (Easy to spell too!)

 

[bowen]

I was just advised by someone in Austria that all standard packages going to the US are outright rejected by Austrian Post and DHL. Only Express packages can be sent, and the cost is currently 65EUR. This was for an item that weighs less than a pound.