BFG9060 or A3660?

[kakemomsen]

Hi,

I have been thinking about upgrading my A4000 to a 68060 for some time, and I even bought the A3660 PCB some time ago. But then I found out about the BFG9060 and it looks like a better option.

What are the pros and cons for either? I understand that the DMA is not working well with the A3660, but without much else on the system will that matter? If I late upgrade it with a PCI bridge, will that be problem? I am planning to get a 68lc060rc75, but it seems like the BFG6090 doesn't like that speed?

So many questions.. so little time.

 

[cloverskull]

The BFG9060 can run at 100MHz with the correct rev CPU and appropriate cooling. I think that's a rather compelling selling point

Edit - additionally you get RAM with the BFG. If you use a 3660 you're stuck with what's on the motherboard or in a Zorro III slot. The BFG RAM will perform much better.

 

[Xanxi]

Without RAM on the CPU card the 68060 is only a kitten.
BFG9060 is way better and at this moment the fastest available either in 50MHz or 100 MHz due to excellent RAM timing, unless you have a CyberStorm MK3 which also have excellent timings.
Soon there will be other competitors.

About that 075 CPU, it can of course be clocked at 50 MHz. It could be a FPU less rev4 or even maybe a full rev1 with this marking.

 

[SilkWorm]

It seems there is a RAM board for the A3660 cards, which makes them faster.

Photo
RAM speed A3660
RAM speed on motherboard

 

[AmigaDigital]

or the Z3660 , then you can use a real 060 cpu , or the 040 or 030 that can be use from the Z-Turn modul thats on the Z3660

GitHub - shanshe/Z3660: Amiga 4000 CPU accelerator board based on A3660 and Z-turn FPGA board

Amiga 4000 CPU accelerator board based on A3660 and Z-turn FPGA board - shanshe/Z3660

github.com

 

[Boing-ball]

Are there still compatibility issues with the BFG cards? It’s okay saying use a BFG. But I ended up selling mine and went old school Phase 5 because of this.

 

[AmigaDigital]

i got a bfg into myn aa3000+ , i got issues with it , but i have change the ram on the card from -5 to -6 and now works better , i got a z3660 in to myn 4000 and that runs great on the 060 100mhz and also on the emu 040 with 133mips run the card great , the z3660 is base on a a3640

 

[Boing-ball]

i got a bfg into myn aa3000+ , i got issues with it , but i have change the ram on the card from -5 to -6 and now works better , i got a z3660 in to myn 4000 and that runs great on the 060 100mhz and also on the emu 040 with 133mips run the card great , the z3660 is base on a a3640

Okay. So you had a BFG card, but to make it work better you had to swap the RAM chips on the BFG? That would mean soldering iron work.
You must realise a great deal of people buy theses cards as they want them to work out of the box. This is why I got rid of my BFG card. I had issues with playing nice with Z3 cards such as FastLane Z3 SCSI etc..

 

[AmigaDigital]

the card's i use in myn aa3000+ are , voodoo3 2000 , nec usb , prelude zii , 256mb zorram , buddha ide , but got no problem's at the moment

and i know there is a new firmware for the z3660 that the dma is working , but i have no z3 card's in myn 4000 to test it ,

 

[Boing-ball]

the card's i use in myn aa3000+ are , voodoo3 2000 , nec usb , prelude zii , 256mb zorram , buddha ide , but got no problem's at the moment

and i know there is a new firmware for the z3660 that the dma is working , but i have no z3 card's in myn 4000 to test it ,

It’s something to consider for anyone (Especially New to the Amiga Scene, Or coming back into) before buying any new card or device to research it first

 

[Xanxi]

Impossible to test everything before releasing it in the wild. Can you test with bridgeboards for instance? Not everyone has one.

About those other accelerators coming:
- upcoming or very near future : TF4060 and Z3660
- soon maybe 2024 Warp4060
- no news anymore : Apollo V4.

 

[Boing-ball]

Impossible to test everything before releasing it in the wild. Can you test with bridgeboards for instance? Not everyone has one.

About those other accelerators coming:
- upcoming or very near future : TF4060 and Z3660
- soon maybe 2024 Warp4060
- no news anymore : Apollo V4.

Agreed to your statement, can’t test everything. But before we start recommending anything new (Or even older). A caveat should always be. “Do your research first” if you can.

A lot of people get recommend this that and the other, only to feel let down and frustrated when that item they were recommended doesn’t work with their setup I have been one of those people

Don’t forget not everyone knows everything and can solder

 

[kakemomsen]

Oh, thats alot of advice! Thank you for all the feedback!

I am planning to solder this myself since I have been making PCBs for many years. The fix with the -6 memory on the BFG is good advice (and an easy fix).

The RAM board for the A3660 does look nice. The A3660 has the advantage of being able to run at different frequencies, so it might be easier to get 66MHz or 72MHz for the 68lc060rc75 (if I can get hold of a real one...).

The Z3660... well, if you get RAM on those Z-zockets it will be a no-brainer.. but then again I have the A3660 PCB laying here... and... decisions...decisions.

Maybe I need to start with the 060... and see what comes out of that.

 

[cloverskull]

Wow, I hadn't heard of the Z3660. Pretty neat.

 

[qz3fwd]

But who know when those experimental cards will be released. You can wait and wait and wait for Amiga projects to be realized or either and languish/die. I personally went down the BFG path with fast modern onboard RAM.

 

[kakemomsen]

But who know when those experimental cards will be released. You can wait and wait and wait for Amiga projects to be realized or either and languish/die. I personally went down the BFG path with fast modern onboard RAM.

I agree with that, no need to wait for the future!

A 68lc060rc75 has been ordered.... You never know what you get, but one can hope.

 

[YouKnowWho]

About those other accelerators coming:
- upcoming or very near future : TF4060 and Z3660
- soon maybe 2024 Warp4060
- no news anymore : Apollo V4.

A lot of choice. Is it 1994 again?

I'm going to bet TF4060 will offer best value proposition. Any ideas/forecasts when the TF4060 is expected to be available?

 

[kakemomsen]

The Z3660 seems to be available: https://github.com/shanshe/Z3660

And it does give a few extras with a Z-board that are really interesting…

Maybe I’ll start there.

 

[cloverskull]

I'm going to bet TF4060 will offer best value proposition. Any ideas/forecasts when the TF4060 is expected to be available?

Check out the exxos forums for up-to-date communications about the 4060. I /think/ the last official comms were at the end of 2023:

I'm about to hit a decision point. If i cant overcome the issues i have with the ice40 software then its getting ditched and we're going to produce a TF4061 or something using CPLDs and an EPROM.

So looks like there are still some showstopper issues. I haven't looked at what these issues are, or anything, but I'm sure you could glean the details by checking out the exxos forums.

 

[YouKnowWho]

The Z3660 seems to be available: https://github.com/shanshe/Z3660

And it does give a few extras with a Z-board that are really interesting…

Maybe I’ll start there.

Personal views, so don't crucify my please!

First, this Z3660 is crazy. I can't believe this type of a device is coming out today.
Are we allowed to discuss the kitted price? Just seems these Z-turn FPGAs aren't cheap. Can it handle an LC060?
16bit RTG is a nice bonus...but....

@cloverskull, yes I saw that. It feels like they are really working on that one to tweak it to perfection before releasing it to the masses? I am not technically knowledgeable enough about these things to speak, outside of "customer" experience of being pleased and satisfied with every TF I got. I am not ashamed to admit I was a doubter, but at this point I'll actually wait for a TF406x whatever to be released. Until then, this BFG is hardly anything to sneeze at in terms of value, features, performance.

Anything bad about BFG9060 that's noteworthy at all? It seems to me like a nice, pure, clean CPU option for 3000/4000 with plenty of time in the wild to work out the kinks to date. Reliability good?