BFG9060 or A3660?

[Xanxi]

Latest news about TF4060 are coming from John Hertell via Facebook. The board is working in his A3000++. I have read also that ide device needs a new driver, work in progress.

About Z3660, only drawback i see is the RTG limited to 16 bits because i think there are some stuff needing 24 bits on the Amiga, but i think an oboard RTG should be faster than Z3 RTG.

The BFG9060 main problem in my opinion is that the clock is not software switchable and it has to be running constantly at 100 MHz. That would not be good for my stuffed A4000D with very little airflow and i still use my Cyberstorm MK2 here.
However, the BFG will be mounted in my 2 years WIP A4000TX tower and i will have all the cooling needed to stay at 100 MHz.
It seems an addon for the BFG is being prepared to be able to change the clock by software but i have no more information so far.

Don't forget the Apollo 68080 for A4000/A3000 which was planned but got no known progress so far.

 

[YouKnowWho]

@Xanxi - I feel the same way about the 16bit. Z3660 demands the 7020, which spec says has 85K logic cells. How does that compare in capability to DE-10 Nano with 110K LE? The latter can do 24bit RTG on Amiga. Almost makes me think that the Z3660 will eventually see an update to 24bit RTG capability perhaps?

BFG9060 can go 50 and 75. The thing about all of these for me is this...would I put an LC CPU inside a 4000? These full 060 prices are getting little silly. It seems like a full CPU is needed in that use case. And so, maybe, just maybe...for me, the 4000 may for now stay an 040, 1994 O.G. style. It's the only 040 machine I have too!

 

[SilkWorm]

Looks like the Warp3060 / Warp4060 is in the development as well.

 

[Bhouin]

I have the BFG9060 in my A3000. The only issue that I had is that I couldn't get SCSI to work. IDE was no problem.

 

[trixster]

I have 2x BFG9060 running at 100mhz for months now in a 4000D and AA3000+ with no stability issues in terms of overheating. The ability to use the flash for libraries and modules is a superb addition. As far as ram speed is concerned the BFG is the fastest classic Amiga accelerator out there, and it’s this speed that gives it the edge over the other boards. For stuff which needs fast memory access (Doom, Quake etc), the BFG is the best. Scsi is hit and miss in the AA3000+ - it’s dependant on quite a few factors with the dmac itself being one of those variables. Mine works ok at 50 but not at 100, but I know ppl who have no issues with 100.

The Z3660 with no 060 cpu will probably be available including the zturn for iro £250. This is a pretty amazing price given what it can do. SCSI, rtg, ahi, mhi, all in one board. Pretty cool. I have one and it’s working great in my AA3000+ at 100mhz for the 060. Real world tests with doom and quake suggest the emulated 040, whilst being faster for mips, is faster than the z3660 060 at 100mhz but slower than a BFG at 100mhz. So still pretty good.

TF4060 will be a really interesting board. It will intriguing to see if the memory speed can get close to that of the BFG. Having fast ide will be cool. The RPi is a nice addition but it remains to be seen what that will be used for.

Warp4060? Well, who knows when this will be released and who’ll be able to get one. It’ll have a really good feature list but I do feel BFG (now two years old), z3660 (lots of features similar to warp) and soon tf4060 have all stolen the limelight somewhat. And what if we get a pistorm 3000/4000? The market for warp might be disappearing a bit.

 

[SilkWorm]

The market for warp might be disappearing a bit

Nope, YouKnowWho needs a real CPU to keep the Amiga being an Amiga.

 

[Xanxi]

@Trixter : lucky you to already have the Z3660. The RPI on the TF4060 is made for flashing the firmware according to JH, nothing else.

 

[cloverskull]

What's the fastest disk I/O with all these different boards? The one thing that keeps me coming back to Phase5 is the SCSI support. With an appropriate SCSI<->IDE/CF type setup going, I can get some decent speeds, and I appreciate that it's not taxing the CPU at all to do filesystem stuff.

I know the TF4060 will have onboard IDE, but I've never actually seen how fast it is and/or how it taxes the CPU.

Naturally there are any myriad of SCSI options but I'd like to figure out what (if any) options exist with these accelerator cards. I've had mixed experiences with FastATA but I suppose I can always consider going that route if I need to.

 

[YouKnowWho]

@Bhouin @trixster - SCSI issues with BFG? I have a reluctant A2091 in my 4000, but it's for CD-ROM only. I could swap that out. But why the issues with SCSI and BFG? What's going on there?

@SilkWorm, yeah that Z3660 would need a CPU, and it doesn't seem LC is supported. Then there is the issue that the Z3660 as noted by @trixster, is quite fast with the FPU emulated 040, so now you have this board that appears to be quite a good value, offering a CPU solution, RTG solution (16bit now, but with real 68K onboard it may free up the FPGA to get to 24bit?).
Again...it's amazing that this many options are being brewed up right now for these relatively rare machines.

 

[Xanxi]

I don't know about IO, i still mainly use the IDE from the A4000 mobo for more compatibility and no LED DIY crafting whatever the turbocard, and i get about 3 MB/s with my CS MK2, enough for me, even if the Phase 5 SCSI adapter might have 8 or 10MB/s with a lot of bulk and adapters for my SATA SSD.

 

[cloverskull]

I get 8MB/s with my BPPC SCSI and an ACard 7720U into an IDE->CF adapter. It's pretty noticeable, but even more noticeable when I then go use my A4000's onboard IDE.

 

[trixster]

What's the fastest disk I/O with all these different boards? The one thing that keeps me coming back to Phase5 is the SCSI support. With an appropriate SCSI<->IDE/CF type setup going, I can get some decent speeds, and I appreciate that it's not taxing the CPU at all to do filesystem stuff.

I know the TF4060 will have onboard IDE, but I've never actually seen how fast it is and/or how it taxes the CPU.

Naturally there are any myriad of SCSI options but I'd like to figure out what (if any) options exist with these accelerator cards. I've had mixed experiences with FastATA but I suppose I can always consider going that route if I need to.

SCSI on the Z3660 is iro 20MB/s

 

[trixster]

@Bhouin @trixster - SCSI issues with BFG? I have a reluctant A2091 in my 4000, but it's for CD-ROM only. I could swap that out. But why the issues with SCSI and BFG? What's going on there?

@SilkWorm, yeah that Z3660 would need a CPU, and it doesn't seem LC is supported. Then there is the issue that the Z3660 as noted by @trixster, is quite fast with the FPU emulated 040, so now you have this board that appears to be quite a good value, offering a CPU solution, RTG solution (16bit now, but with real 68K onboard it may free up the FPGA to get to 24bit?).
Again...it's amazing that this many options are being brewed up right now for these relatively rare machines.

BFG9060 has ongoing issues with motherboard scsi on A3000D and T. It’s to do with termination and SDMAC timings seemingly and would appear to be something of a lottery as to whether it will work. I’ve tried 3 different BFGs in my AA3000+ - one did not work with scsi at all, the other two didn’t work with older fw but now both work at 50mhz but not 100mhz with the latest fw. Active external termination and a short scsi cable have also been necessary. Tested with scsi2sd v6, zulscsi and an Acard 7720UW. I use a Buddha ide now in the interim until new fw is released to test.

I have no idea if zorro scsi cards are similarly affected.

 

[YouKnowWho]

So BFG9060 issues with SCSI are A3000 based only it appears from what I'm reading here, yes? Anyone have issues with a SCSI card in a 4000 and BFG9060 per chance? How nice is this feedback...much appreciated to all. With no TF, the BGF is a frontrunner.

 

[Higgy]

The BFG9060 main problem in my opinion is that the clock is not software switchable and it has to be running constantly at 100 MHz. That would not be good for my stuffed A4000D with very little airflow and i still use my Cyberstorm MK2 here.

I've wired out the hardware switchable 50/100Mhz jumpers to a switch mounted at the back.
I am surprised more people don't do this.

I only want to run at 100Mhz for demanding demos and Doom type games. So I just turn off the computer (!!don't switch it with computer on!!) move switch to 100Mhz position and power on again.

It's not as nice as software switching, but it's pretty usable. And for general usage running at 50Mhz the CPU is cool.

 

[Boing-ball]

I've wired out the hardware switchable 50/100Mhz jumpers to a switch mounted at the back.
I am surprised more people don't do this.

I only want to run at 100Mhz for demanding demos and Doom type games. So I just turn off the computer (!!don't switch it with computer on!!) move switch to 100Mhz position and power on again.

It's not as nice as software switching, but it's pretty usable. And for general usage running at 50Mhz the CPU is cool.

Good idea. Did something similar with my A1200 Mediator boards for if I was playing with different accelerators or wanted to use PCMCIA with the “Config” and “4/8MB windows”. Absolute pain in the rear trying to manually move jumpers in tight spaces.