Charge back and effect on your paypal?

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ShambleS1980

ShambleS1980

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heyo..
long story short "insert long winded story of your own concoction here"

any way.. Boils down to I paid for something via gift so pay pal wont help me if i have an issue with the seller "they vanish for instance"
But. as my money was in my bank account and my pay pal is linked to a debit card not my credit card. I am apparantly coverd by my debit cards charge back feature..

Essentially what will happen is my bank will say. Sorry paypal. but we are taking out clients money back.. And there is nothing you can do about it.
I assume that paypal will then take the money from the seller, because at the bootom of every transaction when i check it says I recived money it says "these funds could still leave your account due to charge back"

Now all that asside what I really care about "apart from the money"
is my actuall paypal account.
I had to jump through fiery hoops backwards to get it so i do not have an anual limit on my income via paypal. to be 100% verified and all that other noncence they insist on doing so you can make more than a couple of thousand a year through it..

i really dont want to have to go through all that again, or have them refuse to allow me to be fully verified because i had to do a charge back.
I know paypal say they dont want you to do a charge back.
but in this situation it is the only option to get the money back.

So basically.

how would it affect my paypal account IF i need to do it?
 
Email 'em and ask!

I doubt that one chargeback would have a negative effect. One every other transaction? Who knows?
 
right now its an "if it comes to that" situation.
but im prety sure paypal stipulate you arent allowed to do charge back in there tearms of use.
so i dont actually want to ask them either lol.
 
mm good luck with that paypal are ruthless:

My bank refused a paypal transaction due to a very small amount because the bank became suspicious, paypal closed my bank transactions option for paypal account.

Also never buy using paypal gift if using any high amount of money because paypal are not receiving a cut and will not help obviously.
 
I would certainly charge back and make sure never to pay by gift again from people I don't know at all:)
 
Well i know my bank will take the money back for me.
But if i can help it i dont want paypal to refuze bank transactions.

I usualy have the money in the bank and then paypal take it from there after the sale. I went to the trouble of being fully verified so that it did not turn in to a E-Cheque. and the payment to sellers would be instant.

still no reply from seller. so it looks like i may need to call them about it monday. Hopefully some sort of a reply will arrive before then.
 
Is this for the same chap that sold me snes games and vanished ? I was lucky small amount. If it is this chap he's still active on the odd website using the same handle as here, I've got his photo, what cars he's had and where I think he's currently working. But for a small amount I couldn't be bothered to drive to is works and see him face to face :-) or phone his works and ask for him see if he's there or not.
 
PayPal's terms say you aren't allowed to make chargebacks. You could probably still do this through your card provider, but you might find PayPal come after you.

I'm not sure what they could actually do, but at the very least, you might find it hard to ever gain a PayPal account again...
 
Sardine said:
Is this for the same chap that sold me snes games and vanished ? I was lucky small amount. If it is this chap he's still active on the odd website using the same handle as here, I've got his photo, what cars he's had and where I think he's currently working. But for a small amount I couldn't be bothered to drive to is works and see him face to face :-) or phone his works and ask for him see if he's there or not.
Click to expand...


not the same person..
Still edging towards benefit of the doubt for now. so i wont be naming any one.
could be a logical reason for the delay.

andylandy said:
PayPal's terms say you aren't allowed to make chargebacks. You could probably still do this through your card provider, but you might find PayPal come after you.

I'm not sure what they could actually do, but at the very least, you might find it hard to ever gain a PayPal account again...
Click to expand...

yep this is my main concern with it. But if i have to do it then thats what i will do.
Normaly i would have forked out the few £ diference for an invoice to make life easier in this sort of scenario. its just money is tight right now.
so if it comes to chargeback or go without. i will have to chargeback.
 
Just because Paypal make you sign up to terms and conditions does not necessarily mean they are enforceable. Afterall that is why there are courts, tribunals etc. to decide such things.

It may these "T&C"s have yet to be tested.

Anyway good luck with your situation.
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well regardless i had a word with paypal now.
and they will harass the seller for a week..
Either i get my item before they finsih and i tell them to forget it.
They get my money back for me after a week.
or i will have to do a charge back..

they asked for details from me, and i told them what happend and that my bank stated i should see if pay pal will get the money back for me 1st, and if they dont then the bank will do a chargeback..

As i pointed out to pay pal. i would prefer not to authorize the bank to do a charge back. but as its fradulant removal of funds from my bank account then its theire decision to do that. and out of my hands. But i have given paypal a week to rectify the situation with theiere own internal systems. if those systems fail then its over to the bank..

I cant see them reprimanding me for that.
as far as i can tell i am now playing theire game by theire rules and only if paypal cant resolve the issue will the bank do a chargeback.
mean while the seller has just recived an extra week to send the item. "this would be a total of 13 days from payment sent"
it has now been 6 days since last contact with the seller, even though i have sent emails and messages..

you apparantly have 120 days to authorize a chargeback. which is prety usefull because with all the wating excetera, and extra week here and there 30/60 days would get used up prety quickly.
i believe paypal only have a 60 day window.
 
I can see you having to get the bank involved tbh. I tried to reclaim funds back once (thankfully only very minor)... and their automated system closed the case in the seller's favour (they didn't even respond to Paypal's email's either).

A law unto themselves. Goodluck!
 
This will sound harsh to you. I'm not trying to preach here, but please try to see this from the perspective of what you agreed to when you sent a gift payment...

First off, my analysis: in no way was that debit from your account by Paypal fraudulent. It was fully authorised by you, the card holder, and was for paypal to send money to the recipient with no expectation of anything back. And this isn't "out of your hands": this is the fault of the person who you've sent money to. That's where blame lies.

You paid for something via a gift payment.
Paypal clearly told you that you cannot get the money back from them before you accepted the charge and agreed to it.

You paid paypal for a funds transfer, that's the long and short of it. They have transferred those funds for you. They have met their service requirement and fully fulfilled their obligations.

Paypal have not made a fraudulent removal of funds. You *AUTHORISED* them to do it, and did so on the understanding that you wouldn't later chargeback as per their T&Cs which you accepted.

If you make a chargeback you probably will get your money back, but you have gone against Paypal's terms of service and I believe you would have acted dishonestly. If I were them, I'd simply close your account and ban you from using the service as you have breached their terms.

You will be required by your bank to sign a form to say that you did not authorise that payment. If you did authorise it - and I think you did - then you are committing an offence to declare you didn't. Criminal or civil, I don't know, but you are making a statement that's provably false. Because you've spoken to Paypal, they'll be able to demonstrate that it's provably false, too...

I also think you're morally wrong to do this. You did authorise it, you know you did, you've admitted to Paypal you did.

You're not playing by their rules either: you're already ignoring their rules for gift payments.

So yes, you can get your money back I guess but you will have to sign a false declaration to do so, the consequences of which may be severe.

The right way forward? Get the seller's details, and make a small claim against them.
 
paypal may have its rules.
but over in the real world. When some one pays for goods, wether that was cash or a bank transaction. and dosent recive them due to the seller not sending them. then thats fraud.. or to be more accurate "obtaining money by deception" which is a criminal offence.
you cant change those rules at your own whim.

its like i can say i dont accept returns on items when i sell things on the internet. but just because i said that and the buyer had to agree to that when they made the purchace. this does not mean that the 2 weeks cooling off period for internet sales does not apply.

there are laws and then there are terms of service. and laws over rule terms of service every time..
i will not be told i am morraly wrong for trying to get my money back on a transaction that some one els decided not to honour.
People may try to use paypals terms of service as a way to be able to fraudulantly gain funds. but that does not mean that fraud is not fraud simply because you accepted the terms of the arangment.

i do not entertain that i am morraly wrong on this account at all. paypal have a week to rectify the situation. "get the item sent to me or get my money back" if they are unable/unwilling to do that. then my bank will simply take the money back regardless of theier terms of service.
paypal cannot prevent that happening as it is fraud and against the law.

My bank do not care about paypals terms of service..
All my bank care about is that i paid for goods that did not arrive.
they will take the money back from paypal. and pay pal will then take the money back from the fraudulant party.
Pay pal know this and is why they state that it could happen on any transaction. it is in paypals interest to rectify the situation internaly, and as such i have given them the 1st attempt to sort it out.

if they dont sort it out then the bank will sort it out, and if they deem it correct to follow up with charges of deception then thats out of my hands also.

i would prefer to get the item sent as agreed. failing that i would prefer paypal sort it out so that i dont have issues with my account. and as a last resort the bank will step in.
any terms and conditions agreed with paypall aside.
the issue of fraudulant activity is that some one took money and then did not honour the agreement.
i have messages proving the agreement was made money was sent and the seller recived the funds. it also has the details of where to send the funds.
its also apparant that since then communications have stoped and that dispite emails and other forms of messaging no reply has been sent regarding the matter.
So that is easily proven.

I'm not saying paypal is being frauds. and right now im not saying the seller is either.
But i have asked for paypals help in the matter and if after they tried and there is still no money/item, then it will be obtaining money by deception regardless of a middle man. and the bank will take action.
 
I think the actual answer is a legal issue of whether or not the two halves of the transaction are linked.

It could be argued that you have paid for an item, but it could quite possibly be argued that you gifted someone some money with a "gentleman's agreement" that they would send you some goods. IANAL, so I couldn't pass judgement on which side a court of law would fall on the matter.

Anyway, a rather more pertinent question:

Was this a trade on AmiBay?
If so, have you contacted the staff to attempt to reach a resolution?
If not, why are you asking the question here rather than where the trade took place?
​
 
sent harrison a pm about it.
seemd to be olnine at the time. prehaps i should have sent the pm to some one els "more apropriate to the issue?"
im not to savvy on who deals with what around here. so i tend to just send a pm to whoever i see in the online list.

as for the linking of the transaction..

i think thats quite easily proven due to corespondance stating how much they wanted for the item, then details about the item, negotiation for the item. followed by a email address to send the funds to.
which was subsiquently followed by "thank you for the quick payment will get the item deliverd to you xxxx"

all of which are easily viewable from one corespondance as they all interlinked and contained the previous ones.

Also it is a bit far of an argument to state that the money ent is a totaly diferent set of money "just happens to be the same sum sent at the same time to the same person" but given there are no other transactions to the previously mentioned email. and the seller did state they recived the funds for the item in question.
it is very difficult to argue that the money sent was not for the agreed item.

A small claims court should easily find in my favour so any one els looking at the information would be hard pressed not to find in my favour.

but as i say.
hopefully there is a reasonable explanation for the delay and that the seller will come and honour their side of the deal.
but they now have a week at the most to rectify things. and i do hope that it dosent come down to having to involve the bank.
 
ShambleS1980 said:
sent harrison a pm about it.
seemd to be olnine at the time. prehaps i should have sent the pm to some one els "more apropriate to the issue?"
im not to savvy on who deals with what around here. so i tend to just send a pm to whoever i see in the online list.
Click to expand...

Your best bet in that case is actually to hit "report post" on the thread in question and raise your issue that way. That informs all the staff and someone will take the case on.

ShambleS1980 said:
as for the linking of the transaction..

i think thats quite easily proven due to corespondance stating how much they wanted for the item, then details about the item, negotiation for the item. followed by a email address to send the funds to.
which was subsiquently followed by "thank you for the quick payment will get the item deliverd to you xxxx"

all of which are easily viewable from one corespondance as they all interlinked and cotained the previous ones.
Click to expand...

As I say, I wouldn't care to comment. I can see how it could be argued either way...
 
First big, big point. You didn't pay for goods. Spin it how you like, but you didn't. If you had have done, you should have selected "I want to pay for goods or services", not "I want to send money as a gift".

You sent someone money as a gift. You asked paypal to send money to friends or family as a gift. Paypal have done that for you. You did this with a clear understanding that there was no way to get the money back.

I really can't spell it out any clearer than that.

You expected the person who received the money would send you goods. They didn't. That's the person who received the money's fault, not paypal's, not your bank.

You say "All my bank care about is that i paid for goods that did not arrive. "
No, you paid for a service - send money to someone - which you received. That's what you asked paypal for, and that's what you got. If you'd sent a cheque, would you expect the bank to credit you back if goods didn't arrive?

You did this over the internet: why not claim that it's your ISP's problem, as they transmitted the instructions? It's just as much their problem as it is your bank's.

You're chasing the wrong person here. And by telling your bank that the transaction is unauthorised you'll be the one obtaining money by deception because you absolutely authorised that transaction. You're defrauding paypal.

The solution is to get the recipient's details - you did ask for some details before you sent money to a random stranger whose email address you know - and tell them you'll be starting a small claim against them, which when granted will cause them issues getting credit.

You do not want to sign a form stating you did not authorise that transaction as the consequences could be severe.

But hey, don't listen to me, I'm just a random stranger on the internet :) :whistle:
 
I will sign the form the bank send me stating i sent money to some one for an item they did not send..
my bank do not care whether i selected gift or goods.
that is paypals terms, not my banks terms.

all my bank care about is that i can show the seller told me they would sent the item in exchange for money sent to a specific email address.
pay pal shows the funds were sent to that specific email address.
and i canthen also show seller recived the funds and stated payment recived and item will be sent.

if the money had come out of my paypal account directly and not from my bank then i would not have that option. But the money came from my bank.

to my bank Gift goods or any other option selected does not matter.
All they care about is that i can show why the funds went to the place they did. and that the other party obtained that money by deception.
Pay pal is simply the middle man.
I am not blaming paypal.

but by your logic. if i were to say buy a car from a ford dealer, my bank transferd the money to the dealer. the dealer then sends the money to ford, but ford never sent me the car, i would have to take that up directly with ford and not the dealer?

Im sorry but that is not how it works.

also if the dealer had a contract stipulating that its not there fault if the money does not result in a car which i had to simply tick a box to agree, that would not render the car dealer immune.

the bank would take my money back from the dealer. and then the dealer would have to get the money back from ford..

Any clauses that breich laws or allow a law to be circumvented are simply dissregarded,

you are looking at it as a claim against paypal. when it is not. it is a claim against a person and paypal acted as a middle person.
Any subsiquent contracts within paypal which mean that others can defraud buyers are null and void.

You can state that i was trying to defraud paypal by using a gift payment, but if you check paypal terms it does state that seller is responsible for all fees.

also if i had evidence that the "cheque" that was sent to a person was for goods that never arrived, then yes my bank would retrieve that money also..
 
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