Computers last too long these days!

[Deleted member 14264]

I had a dream last night about the unlikeliest of things : Flight of the Conchords (the TV series).

For those who don't know this was a 2007 TV series about a pair of New Zealand musicians trying to hit it big in New York city. More than a decade ago, I watched a small excerpt of one of the episodes in which a New Zealand government clerk uses a VIC-20 to browse through some information about people.
He then comments : "20 years and its already obsolete! They move fast now don't they ?"

My dream was about the computer I was given in late 2018 by an old friend who was dying of cancer. He gave me a PC built in early 2011 which has a 6 core i7-CPU (970), X58 chipset with 24GB of RAM and a GTX 550 Ti video card. Back then it was among the very best money could buy.
Today, it can't run Windows 10 so it is stuck in time with Win7 but if I go on YouTube I can play full HD videos at 60fps (1080p60) and it can play a whole range of video games that were published between 2007 to 2017, from Bioshock all the way to Prey with very high settings. It can do pretty much everything I would want to do on the Internet. Its also the machine I have used to program the CPLDs on all PLAnktons, GandALFs and CleoRAMs I have sold since early 2019. It was and still is my business PC.

Yet this PC is really now 13 years old. It still works just as well as the day it came out of the PC shop where it was originally built. Indeed a very far cry from the Amiga days where you had to invest a few hundreds in your computer every 6 months to keep up to date. Even a far cry from the PCs of the late 90s which doubled in speed every 9 months. I am quite confident it will still be relevant for a bunch of things when it turns 20 years old.

Right now I am writing to you on a newer PC I purchased last February, it uses an AMD Ryzen 9 7950X and has an RTX 4070 GPU. I managed to get a BluRay writer installed just before they vanished from the market. By the looks of things this machine will serve me well for the next 20 years or more. The new AMD 9950X came out last month and it costs 900$CAD and provides ... 6.7% more processing power. Rather underwhelming.
It looks like planned obsolescence just might be a thing of the past. Maybe why Microsoft has decided all PCs not equipped with TPM 2.0 cannot run Windows 11 ; a feature I find both useless and quite likely to make you lose all your data (ever heard of BitLocker?).

Welcome to the future where technology finally does get old and the latest tech has a hundred times more power than you actually need.

 

[kixs]

It's all in the software.

Technically you could still use some sort of 486 + Win 3.11 + Word 6 if that's all you need as it will still work as good as when it was new. But don't install newer software. It's the same with all computers. If you stay within it's time period it will be fast and good or (very) slow if you want the newest and greatest apps/games. For example my friend still used 486DX2-66 computer in 2002 for school purposes with Win3.11 and Word 6

As you have seen... now the time between necessary upgrades is relatively long. I still had Phenom X6 from 2010 up to last year. Then purchased Ryzen 5800X. Even though I use my laptop with Ryzen 5700u like 99.99% of the time. Phenom is now in the storage with some nice upgrades and of course Windows 7. 5800X is in the corner only been used a few days this year...

Latest software updates makes sure the latest tech still isn't fast enough...

 

[Xanxi]

I think that the core i-X serie from Intel has been very good since 2009, with powerful CPU from the start with slight improvements each year without big jumps like before. If it wasn't for the meltdown and spectre exploits, which software patches have impacted around 30% performance out of the first generations CPU, i might still be using my quad core i7 toshiba laptop from 2010.
It has been a golden era of CPU in my opinion.

I am typing this message on a Surface Book 2 from 2018 which is still top notch.

Good time to buy those expensive laptops second hand.

 

[moggsie]

I think you need to cut down on the cheese before bed..

 

[Deleted member 14264]

It's all in the software.

Technically you could still use some sort of 486 + Win 3.11 + Word 6 if that's all you need as it will still work as good as when it was new.

The software will not help you play HD videos from the web.
The point I was trying to make is this is the first time in my life I see computers that are 10 years old or more do everything normal people can need from a computer including playing full HD videos/movies.

A 486 PC can help you with getting a retro/vintage feeling and play Doom or some Windows 95 software or games but you can't go on the Internet and simply go everywhere. My i7-970/X58 PC still runs old Windows 7 but I installed the legacy support version of Firefox and there is no place on the web it can't browse.
Added edit : I upgraded the GTX 550 Ti to an RTX 2060 late last year and I can play videos in 4K as well as the remastered version of Bioshock 1 and 2 in 4K.

 

[Deleted member 14264]

I think you need to cut down on the cheese before bed..

Good quality cheese at any time of the day is an essential survival ingredient. Besides, it's also full of calcium and many vitamins.

 

[supaduper]

I had an 12 year old i3 HP G62 laptop and just upgraded it to i7 cpu and 8gb ram and 1gb SSD and it absolutely flies,so yes I love my old computers as they still work, and my neighbour next door just rang to say if I could look at her just out of one year warranty ASUS laptop as it is dead ! , I tell you this to prove a point , just look on YTube at all the repair videos on newish laptops that have failed when just out of warranty

 

[kixs]

The software will not help you play HD videos from the web.
The point I was trying to make is this is the first time in my life I see computers that are 10 years old or more do everything normal people can need from a computer including playing full HD videos/movies.

A 486 PC can help you with getting a retro/vintage feeling and play Doom or some Windows 95 software or games but you can't go on the Internet and simply go everywhere. My i7-970/X58 PC still runs old Windows 7 but I installed the legacy support version of Firefox and there is no place on the web it can't browse.
Added edit : I upgraded the GTX 550 Ti to an RTX 2060 late last year and I can play videos in 4K as well as the remastered version of Bioshock 1 and 2 in 4K.

Like I've said. It's in the software. Software makes or breaks the PC. For example, you can put the latest and greatest Linux on that machine.

 

[supaduper]

Like I've said. It's in the software. Software makes or breaks the PC. For example, you can put the latest and greatest Linux on that machine.

Yeah I know but TBH I rarely use new software lol, and yes I have virtual Ubuntu running on it inside Windows 10, works fantasically

 

[CleaningUp]

The software will not help you play HD videos from the web.
The point I was trying to make is this is the first time in my life I see computers that are 10 years old or more do everything normal people can need from a computer including playing full HD videos/movies.

A 486 PC can help you with getting a retro/vintage feeling and play Doom or some Windows 95 software or games but you can't go on the Internet and simply go everywhere. My i7-970/X58 PC still runs old Windows 7 but I installed the legacy support version of Firefox and there is no place on the web it can't browse.
Added edit : I upgraded the GTX 550 Ti to an RTX 2060 late last year and I can play videos in 4K as well as the remastered version of Bioshock 1 and 2 in 4K.

I agree with your statement. I put together an i7-4770 system in 2015. I have upgraded the graphics card twice and the main boot drive was upgraded to an SSD for my son's gaming, but the CPU / motherboard / memory combination are the same as it was in 2015.

 

[Deleted member 14264]

... I tell you this to prove a point , just look on YTube at all the repair videos on newish laptops that have failed when just out of warranty

I did notice. I also noticed when I comment about these new machines failing for flakes of dust at the wrong place and/or my old i7-970 still performing like new then my comments get removed!! Trolls on YT will flag your comments dozens of times if you contradict them.

 

[Deleted member 14264]

Like I've said. It's in the software. Software makes or breaks the PC. For example, you can put the latest and greatest Linux on that machine.

I can see the complete opposite. While my old i7-970 will allow you to go everywhere on the web and run millions of software created from 2007 to 2019, Linux is restricted to a very small community and limited compatibility while Windows 11 is plagued with dozens of 'growing pains' as Microsoft is trying to force on users features they don't want, take away functionality people consider to be fundamental (like Wordpad !!).
Also, there are dozens of different versions of Linux these days, each with their own advantages or limitations or bugs. Windows 7 and 10 are old enough to be highly compatible, well protected against malicious software and close to fully bug free.

 

[Deleted member 14264]

I agree with your statement. I put together an i7-4770 system in 2015. I have upgraded the graphics card twice and the main boot drive was upgraded to an SSD for my son's gaming, but the CPU / motherboard / memory combination are the same as it was in 2015.

I have a friend who has a PC with Win10 and i7-4790 CPU (also 2015). He upgraded the GPU to an RTX 3060 and 4K/HDR display. Runs beautifully.

 

[StrongARM]

+++ software sells hardware +++

bad impact given:
bad coded software sells even more expensive hardware...

 

[kixs]

I can see the complete opposite. While my old i7-970 will allow you to go everywhere on the web and run millions of software created from 2007 to 2019, Linux is restricted to a very small community and limited compatibility while Windows 11 is plagued with dozens of 'growing pains' as Microsoft is trying to force on users features they don't want, take away functionality people consider to be fundamental (like Wordpad !!).
Also, there are dozens of different versions of Linux these days, each with their own advantages or limitations or bugs. Windows 7 and 10 are old enough to be highly compatible, well protected against malicious software and close to fully bug free.

Then I don't understand your agenda. You are happy with Windows 7 or 10 and you can do everything you want on i7-970. So what's the point of this thread? Hardware gets obsolete all the time... If you're happy OK, if not, upgrade or use alternatives. I know people who run Linux 100% of the time since 2002. Most of the things now-a-days run on the web anyways.

 

[miggymad]

In the grand scale of things, the Amiga (along with other retro computers) is still running sweet after nearly 40 years. Sure it has had minor surgery for timing fixes, battery removal, the odd fried chip or a recap - but in comparison how many pc's have been gutted, replaced or upgraded just to keep up or because it's a "must have latest item"?

 

[Deleted member 14264]

Then I don't understand your agenda. You are happy with Windows 7 or 10 and you can do everything you want on i7-970. So what's the point of this thread? Hardware gets obsolete all the time... If you're happy OK, if not, upgrade or use alternatives. I know people who run Linux 100% of the time since 2002. Most of the things now-a-days run on the web anyways.

The point is hardware doesn't get obsolete anymore. Microsoft had to force the hand of people by imposing this TPM 2.0 junk.
I have a Windows 98/ P3 /Voodoo 4 system which I use to play late 90s games and this machine was 'current' for about 2-3 years at the most.

Yet today my i7-970 PC can run everything that was published before 2020 that you can find on GOG. I purchased a new laser printer in 2021 and yes, it came with Windows 7 drivers. Not so sure for Linux.

A 13 year old computer that delivers good performances and still run most mainstream stuff is not something I have ever seen in my life before. My point is computer have grown exponentially in power until they fulfilled just about all the most important needs people could think of. My i7-970 was one of the first machines to reach that point (in 2011 it was very expensive) but now you can also get such power and features with the least expensive AM4 system you can grab for less than 400$. Just about everything else is massively overpowered and is required pretty much only for newer video games with 4K/HDR/ray tracing functionality.

It causes a headache for all PC manufacturers and vendors who can't imagine more ways to force you to upgrade needlessly. It causes what I call the R2D2 phenomenon - this little robot of Star Wars stays relevant and useful in all episodes of the franchise even when it reaches the fictitious age of 100 years.

My new 7950X system is 9 times faster than the old i7-970. I suspect I will never need another PC until I die.

 

[Deleted member 14264]

In the grand scale of things, the Amiga (along with other retro computers) is still running sweet after nearly 40 years. Sure it has had minor surgery for timing fixes, battery removal, the odd fried chip or a recap - but in comparison how many pc's have been gutted, replaced or upgraded just to keep up or because it's a "must have latest item"?

IMHO that was true between 1989 to 2010. PCs then didn't meet the needs of the majority of people and I remember in 1996 having to spend thousands of dollars so a PC could be useful for a TV show. You never had enough colors, resolution, processing power, 3D rendering capability, surround sound no matter how much you spent. Today the least expensive PC will give you all that and more, a LOT more.

Any cheap PC purchased new today can provide top notch emulation of the most powerful Amiga ever offered by Commodore.

Robert Bernardo recently came to my place and I showed him MAME32 emulating Omega Race - an arcade game which uses vector display so it has no real resolution limit - on the RTX 4070/4K display. This emulation is better than anything I could have dreamed of only a few years ago.

Back in the late 90s the "must have latest item" was relevant because your new PC or whatever technological item did bring a lot more than the previous one and the previous one did have a lot of obvious shortcomings. Today almost all the shortcomings have been covered and the new stuff is very slightly better.

 

[CleaningUp]

I have a friend who has a PC with Win10 and i7-4790 CPU (also 2015). He upgraded the GPU to an RTX 3060 and 4K/HDR display. Runs beautifully.

It was earlier this year when my son was complaining that the FPS for a game was to low. I had lost track of how long ago I built the machine. I was surprised when I realized that it had been 9 years since I built it and 11 since the CPU was released. I wasn't interested in spending money on a whole new machine at the time and upgraded the graphics card to one that would leave the CPU as the bottleneck and it performs more than fine. To be frank, I am disappointed that this CPU is not supported by windows 11. This machine has seen 8, 8.1, and 10. I am pretty confident it would run 11 just fine.

 

[Deleted member 14264]

... To be frank, I am disappointed that this CPU is not supported by windows 11. This machine has seen 8, 8.1, and 10. I am pretty confident it would run 11 just fine.

AFAIK Windows 11 supports pretty much every 64 bit CPU that has AVX2 and AVX512 and IIRC an i7-4770 has these. Only the TPM 2.0 is missing for Win11 to run on your PC.